• Customer Shoots Armed Robber at South Carolina Waffle Restaurant
    355 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34404869]Not really...If you're going to have a gun for self defense it's probably best to learn how to use it for that purpose. I do know people who do collect guns as a hobby, but they're locked in huge safes bolted to the ground; the only one that isn't is a .45 1911 in a lock box under their bed. The key is on the night stand so if someone breaks in and sounds the alarm they can quickly unlock the box and have a gun ready to defend themselves. He's even demonstrated it to me and has mastered it in a matter of 15 seconds to be out of bed, gun in hand and standing in an appropriate defensive position.[/QUOTE] but there's a great sense of enjoyment people derive out of this notion. certainly it fits the concept of masculinity. the defender with his weapon fending off the criminals. comparable to the craze people have with all things military. obviously there are people who get guns for the sake of self-defense but that doesn't explain the massive amount of evangelism that is put into it. and this person who demonstrated the 15 second get-out-of bed-into-defense-mode is comparable to what we used to do as little boys.
[QUOTE=faze;34404868]I don't feel bad for the guy that got shot. I feel bad for his family, sure. But that idiot decided to go into a restaurant full of women, kids, old people and etc. with a gun and would have likely been provoked into shooting one or more. I'd rather be safe and shoot. If he dies, not my fucking issue. He shouldn't be robbing places.[/QUOTE] I repeat: No one deserves to die. Not even an "Idiot". Maybe especially not an "Idiot". It's a shame that this could not have ended without anyone getting hurt, but it happens, and I think that people should regret that it couldn't have ended better.
[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;34404762]What? I wasn't aware the article was saying he was about to shoot someone. Not until the concealed carry pulled a weapon on him, anyway.[/QUOTE] His life was threatened by a dangerous criminal robbing the place with a gun. For all he knew the criminal could have shot a bunch of people on the way out of the door. He has no reason to assume the criminal is there just for a "peaceful robbery". He was justified in pulling out his own weapon to defend himself and others. [QUOTE=Darth_GW7;34404814]Hah, I don't believe in such a thing. And setting aside the fact that any death could have been avoided, it's still despicable that people are CELEBRATING someone DYING. Because, apparently, all criminals are scum of the earth and deserve to die painfully, this guy clearly got lucky with a bullet to the head. We don't know anything about him, for all we know, he could have been robbing the store to get money to pay for a dying relative, or to feed his kids. But people rarely put themselves in the shoes of a criminal, as far as they're concerned, anyone who breaks the law is scum, a piece of shit, a monster that should be put down for the good of society. Like I said, I don't give a shit who they are, it's always a terrible thing when someone dies.[/QUOTE] Yes, he absolutely was scum for robbing the place and threatening peoples lives, I didn't say he deserved to die painfully, but this is about self defense. I'm afraid that's just too bad if he needs the money for those purposes. He'll have to deal with those problems in the same way that everyone else does, which doesn't involve putting other people's lives at risk by going on a crime spree.
[QUOTE=Scot;34401349]Threads like this always make me laugh. If it was a thread about a 19 year old kid getting the death penalty for robbing a restaurant everyone would be up in arms. But no, since someone in the store shot him to death it's somehow OK. Then they use the story to justify their retarded 'need' for guns.[/QUOTE] Dude, the kid was about to shoot someone. Jesus it wasn't like he was on trial or anything, he was in the middle of POINTING A GUN AT SOMEONE. This wasn't a dragged-out court session, this was a split-second decision made by someone who had the means to defend himself and others. The kid could've sat there, and waited for the police to arrive and arrest him, but he didn't, and scared the shit outa someone and this was the result. I don't know about you, but I'd give no mercy to those who rob and assault others at gunpoint. In these split-fucking-second events, when both parties have a gun, you've got to make a decision and do something, or you're going to fucking get hurt or worse.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34404923]but there's a great sense of enjoyment people derive out of this notion. certainly it fits the concept of masculinity. the defender with his weapon fending off the criminals. comparable to the craze people have with all things military. obviously there are people who get guns for the sake of self-defense but that doesn't explain the massive amount of evangelism that is put into it. and this person who demonstrated the 15 second get-out-of bed-into-defense-mode is comparable to what we used to do as little boys.[/QUOTE] I've never really seen anyone treat guns less than an enjoyable hobby, sport, or self defense. The whole masculinity argument is ridiculous, there are many women who own weapons as a hobby and self defense. In fact, I have a close family friend who collects guns with her husband, while being a head chef at a restaurant. Not really a masculinity issue at all; people collect guns like I collect lenses for photography. And as for my friend demonstrating it, it's a very serious thing. He wasn't pretending just for fun; it's a legitimate drill that can save his life one day. In fact, all drills related to holstering, drawing, aiming, maneuvering, reloading, and shooting are all extremely serious. It's ridiculous to compare it to playing cops and robbers as kids.
People... people... I don't understand all this fight. The thing is we honestly would not know what would of happened if the Arm'd civilian did not pull his gun. This is the part we can't really answer, if he didn't pull his gun, the 19 year old could of shoot up the whole store. Or he could of just robbed it. You never know, he could of had some sort of rush and started to shoot people. I mean yes its unfortnate that the kid died. But that being said, i don't understand the hate people have for americans and there guns. I know most Americans throw alot of shit to other countries about guns. Since its in our laws about having them why can't we get past the bitching about it?
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405096]I've never really seen anyone treat guns less than an enjoyable hobby, sport, or self defense. The whole masculinity argument is ridiculous, there are many women who own weapons as a hobby and self defense. In fact, I have a close family friend who collects guns with her husband, while being a head chef at a restaurant. Not really a masculinity issue at all; people collect guns like I collect lenses for photography.[/QUOTE] masculinity isn't limited to men by any means. [QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405096]And as for my friend demonstrating it, it's a very serious thing. He wasn't pretending just for fun; it's a legitimate drill that can save his life one day. In fact, all drills related to holstering, drawing, aiming, maneuvering, reloading, and shooting are all extremely serious. It's ridiculous to compare it to playing cops and robbers as kids.[/QUOTE] well is he a police officer or someone who comes into contact with danger like that? else it's just like all the other situations listed through many gun arguments, a fantasy that serves only to satisfy and justify the hobby or obsession that one might have. now there's nothing specifically wrong with owning guns, but the evangelism behind it is very curious to me.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;34404814]Like I said, I don't give a shit who they are, it's always a terrible thing when someone dies.[/QUOTE] Yes it is, with an exception. I would love if a man like this could sit in prison and think about what he did. But how can you sympathize for a man who would have shot someone for money especially with children around that could potentially be caught by a stray bullet and not only that but the mental image that these children have in their head of death. It is not fair to the man who shot him and it is not fair to the others close by. I will say it is a bit much to celebrate another mans death in a small case like this but do I sympathize for him. FUCK no, I sympathize for everyone else who was hurt by this. The people who are still alive.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34405191] now there's nothing specifically wrong with owning guns, but the evangelism behind it is very curious to me.[/QUOTE] i do agree with this. I've owned a few guns and fired some but, i don't understand that some people protect owning them like some type of faith. Plus alot of people make a big deal out of it also i have mix'd thoughts on owning guns even tho i ownd a gun b4 its just a touchy subject, but u already kno that cause of the thread..
[QUOTE=thisispain;34405191]masculinity isn't limited to men by any means. well is he a police officer or someone who comes into contact with danger like that? else it's just like all the other situations listed through many gun arguments, a fantasy that serves only to satisfy and justify the hobby or obsession that one might have. now there's nothing specifically wrong with owning guns, but the evangelism behind it is very curious to me.[/QUOTE] It's not a fantasy by any means. He's not trying to justify his hobby, there's no reason to justify it. Like any drill it's to prepare you for the event of something potentially happening so that you may react properly to it. He doesn't fantasize having his house broken into, or having to shoot someone. Trying to say that is really fucking retarded. Airsoft and Paintball is for fantasy.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405096]I've never really seen anyone treat guns less than an enjoyable hobby, sport, or self defense. The whole masculinity argument is ridiculous, there are many women who own weapons as a hobby and self defense. In fact, I have a close family friend who collects guns with her husband, while being a head chef at a restaurant. Not really a masculinity issue at all; people collect guns like I collect lenses for photography.[/QUOTE] I agree, I have shot big hand cannons and I don't shoot them because I think it will make the girl in the next lane wet her panties. It is just the unique feeling of adrenaline and fear that runs through your body when you pull the trigger. It is a rush, as a hobby it is a rush. Same reason people play sports is the same reason people shoot guns as a hobby. The thrill of competition and adrenaline.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405314]It's not a fantasy by any means. He's not trying to justify his hobby, there's no reason to justify it. Like any drill it's to prepare you for the event of something potentially happening so that you may react properly to it. He doesn't fantasize having his house broken into, or having to shoot someone. Trying to say that is really fucking retarded. Airsoft and Paintball is for fantasy.[/QUOTE] the problem i have with these "drills" is like what if he thinks someone is breaking into his house or w/e and its all like muscle memory at that point and he just drops the person at the door? I mean if you talk numbers something like this has to happen ever so often and stuff, because you have to look at the number of people who aren't trained and who are? Also im not bashing the drills for preparingness it just seems like the problem with most people here is that they think/seem to think most people with guns aren't trained and many are not they just go to the range and such [QUOTE=RichyZ;34405337]lol @ the people who think all robbers do is take the money and go, never can they just shoot the cashier, shoot any customers they may not like looking at, or just shoot anyone due to a mental problem[/QUOTE] Yeah but how the fuck do you know what would of happened if this did not? I just do not understand how people can say how horrible it is to own guns/ say he should of just sat there. I mean its almost retarded to say he should of let the 19y/o shoot him
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405314]It's not a fantasy by any means. He's not trying to justify his hobby, there's no reason to justify it. Like any drill it's to prepare you for the event of something potentially happening so that you may react properly to it. [/QUOTE] a lot of things may potentially happen but people don't go through a drill for it. [QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405314]He doesn't fantasize having his house broken into, or having to shoot someone. Trying to say that is really fucking retarded.[/QUOTE] on what grounds do you say that's really fucking retarded? it's not a new concept by any means. every single person has a form of escapism and part of that escapism is to get away from something banal or unimportant.
Again, like the last thread where a shooting like this occurred, [B]it is entirely the robber's fault that he died.[/B] He had a gun pointed at him and was stupid enough to try and raise his. [B]If he hadn't raised his gun, and let himself get arrested, he wouldn't have died. And NONE of you would be complaining that the citizen decided to be the hero.[/B] But that wasn't what happened. The robber made a really really bad decision, and it got himself killed. If you go provoke a tiger, is it the tiger's fault when it eats you?
[QUOTE=laxplayer77alt;34405380]the problem i have with these "drills" is like what if he thinks someone is breaking into his house or w/e and its all like muscle memory at that point and he just drops the person at the door? I mean if you talk numbers something like this has to happen ever so often and stuff, because you have to look at the number of people who aren't trained and who are? Also im not bashing the drills for preparingness it just seems like the problem with most people here is that they think/seem to think most people with guns aren't trained and many are not they just go to the range and such Yeah but how the fuck do you know what would of happened if this did not? I just do not understand how people can say how horrible it is to own guns/ say he should of just sat there. I mean its almost retarded to say he should of let the 19y/o shoot him[/QUOTE] Well part of training (little of which gun ignorant people know) is that part of training is to call out to the person you're aiming and and tell them to cease and let them know you have a gun and will shoot if necessary. If the person doesn't comply then you engage. Also, do note, you don't do all this just standing out in the open; if my friend hears glass break/the alarm go off he quickly gets in a defensive position by his door and yells what I said above. After that he then engages if necessary.
[QUOTE=The Vman;34405428]Again, like the last thread where a shooting like this occurred, [B]it is entirely the robber's fault that he died.[/B] He had a gun pointed at him and was stupid enough to try and raise his. [B]If he hadn't raised his gun, and let himself get arrested, he wouldn't have died. And NONE of you would be complaining that the citizen decided to be the hero.[/B] But that wasn't what happened. The robber made a really really bad decision, and it got himself killed. If you go provoke a tiger, is it the tiger's fault when it eats you?[/QUOTE] you know i haven't really read anyone defend the robbers actions
[QUOTE=laxplayer77alt;34405380]the problem i have with these "drills" is like what if he thinks someone is breaking into his house or w/e and its all like muscle memory at that point and he just drops the person at the door? I mean if you talk numbers something like this has to happen ever so often and stuff, because you have to look at the number of people who aren't trained and who are? Also im not bashing the drills for preparingness it just seems like the problem with most people here is that they think/seem to think most people with guns aren't trained and many are not they just go to the range and such Yeah but how the fuck do you know what would of happened if this did not? I just do not understand how people can say how horrible it is to own guns/ say he should of just sat there. I mean its almost retarded to say he should of let the 19y/o shoot him[/QUOTE] If someone breaks into your house you instantly have the upper hand on them knowing the layout, it is not like we are robots and we are trained to shoot anything that appears to be an enemy. You are gonna want to ID the person you "think" is breaking into your home.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405460]Also, do note, you don't do all this just standing out in the open; if my friend hears glass break/the alarm go off he quickly gets in a defensive position by his door and yells what I said above. After that he then engages if necessary.[/QUOTE] that sounds like extreme paranoia.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34405482]that sounds like extreme paranoia.[/QUOTE] No, it's called proper training. Something someone who is handling a lethal weapon should have. You should understand that since he's giving a chance for the intruder to stop, rather than blindly shooting at someone.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34405482]that sounds like extreme paranoia.[/QUOTE] There is a difference between being alert and paranoid.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405460]Well part of training (little of which gun ignorant people know) is that part of training is to call out to the person you're aiming and and tell them to cease and let them know you have a gun and will shoot if necessary. If the person doesn't comply then you engage. Also, do note, you don't do all this just standing out in the open; if my friend hears glass break/the alarm go off he quickly gets in a defensive position by his door and yells what I said above. After that he then engages if necessary.[/QUOTE] Well im not talking about your friend in my kinda of talk but like what if you have some 23 year old call of duty trigger happy person? You know what i mean, like they did all the training and such, kinda like someone that does karate to just beat the shit out of people? I think thats what most people think Americans are that own guns. But thank you for your insight on the training.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34405467]you know i haven't really read anyone defend the robbers actions[/QUOTE] No, but people are demonizing the citizen. Even though he did nothing wrong. He isn't at fault for the situation the robber put him in.
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;34405508]No, it's called proper training. Something someone who is handling a lethal weapon should have. You should understand that since he's giving a chance for the intruder to stop, rather than blindly shooting at someone.[/QUOTE] proper training is nice and very important for someone who deals in a situation of violence. does your friend live in a war torn area?
[QUOTE=faze;34403019]How are you confused...? [editline]26th January 2012[/editline] [url]http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/is-political-correctness-destroying-america/question-1293989/[/url] [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2663095/posts[/url] [url]http://wiseconservatism.com/2007/02/18/political-correctness-still-destroying-america/[/url] [url]http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=106265[/url] [url]http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/political-correctness-is-destroying-america[/url] [url]http://onecountryvoice.wordpress.com/2006/12/07/is-political-correctness-ruining-america/[/url][/QUOTE] these articles are all crap. all of them. I read every single one. most of them are a particularly special kind of paranoid rightwing crap. i suspect you haven't even read most of them.
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;34405517]There is a difference between being alert and paranoid.[/QUOTE] being alert is the result of paranoia.
[QUOTE=laxplayer77alt;34405519]Well im not talking about your friend in my kinda of talk but like what if you have some 23 year old call of duty trigger happy person? You know what i mean, like they did all the training and such, kinda like someone that does karate to just beat the shit out of people? I think thats what most people think Americans are that own guns. But thank you for your insight on the training.[/QUOTE] A trigger happy person shouldn't have a gun, but that is out of our control. I think most trigger happy people are just nervous though, I wouldn't imagine that kind of stress and such to be good for the system. [editline]26th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34405555]being alert is the result of paranoia.[/QUOTE] Yeah but you make it sound like we are like "Oh my god someone broke into my home!?" "I better start shooting!"
[QUOTE=The Vman;34405527]No, but people are demonizing the citizen.[/QUOTE] who demonized him? the only person i could think of is Jake Nukem but he just didn't read the article :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=thisispain;34405547]proper training is nice and very important for someone who deals in a situation of violence. does your friend live in a war torn area?[/QUOTE] Self Defense training is to teach you how to react to a situation in which you'll use it. He's not paranoid, or on some insane level of alertness. But in the event that he does have to use his training he'll be alert and know exactly what to do. It's not like every bump he hears he's racing for his gun. He's ready to react to someone breaking in and setting off the alarm. He lives in a safe area, but robberies have happened in the past. It's better to be prepared to handle the situation than to just let someone walk off with your valuables.
in fact, let's look at a cross section [QUOTE]Freedom of speech allows us to fight against injustuce by viocing our opposition to it and being able to say that "marriage should be between a man and a woman" preserves the sanctaty of our Christian beliefs despite offending the unAmerican. If we had liberal PC bullshit when this country was being formed, we'd still have the king of England taxing us and pushing us around into slavery.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Whatever happened to just being able to have good time. What’s next, huh? no more candy at the movies because diabetics might be offended? Or no more beer at sporting events because some people might be recovering alcoholics.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Political correctness also plays a huge role in the advancement of many liberal causes like the environment or gay rights. A casual observer can see how language is often changed to pursue the statist's goals, and those who disagree are instantly labeled "bigots", "deniers", or "haters". What was once "global warming" is now "climate change"; "gay marriage" is now "marriage equality", and so on.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]MARRIAGE is being attacked by the gays and lesbians in an attempt to change the definition of what marriage is. The long standing traditional values that make up the core of a family are being ridiculed and laughed at for the “live and let live” attitude. Divorce has become an “easy out” and “infidelity” a “cure” for the boredoms of married life. Are we becoming a “Sodom and Gomorrah” society? I remember as a kid learning to spell, to remember family as: Father And Mother I Love You[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;34405567] Yeah but you make it sound like we are like "Oh my god someone broke into my home!?" "I better start shooting!"[/QUOTE] i don't know who you refer to as "we" but i never talked about them. what i am rambling and musing on about is that some people seem to enjoy the notion of having a weapon and demonstrate it with a lot of relish to the point of becoming immersed as a person in it. i find that very interesting.
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