Judge Vinson maintains Healthcare law Unconstitutional. Gives Obama 7 days to appeal.
333 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28416066]Cost of living is BETTER in Scandinavian countries.
GDP does not take into account standard of living or wealth distribution.
You know what does?
Human Development Index
1. Norway 0.876 (steady)
2. Australia 0.864 (steady)
3. Sweden 0.824 (increase 6)
4. Netherlands 0.818 (increase 3)
5. Germany 0.814 (increase 5)
6. Switzerland 0.813 (increase 7)
7. Ireland 0.813 (decrease 2)
8. Canada 0.812 (steady)
9. Iceland 0.811 (increase 8)
10. Denmark 0.810 (increase 9)
11. Finland 0.806 (increase 5)
12. United States 0.799 (decrease 8)
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
And Hong Kong ain't on there boyo
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
And looky who's decrease[/QUOTE]
They actually did a new HDI last year called the Inequality-Adjusted Human Development Index. It's probably the most accurate way to sum up everything we've been arguing in this thread so far: income equality, standard of living, so forth. Unfortunately, it appears either Hong Kong was not graded or didn't make the top 139. (Former most likely)
The IHDI factors in inequalities in income, life expectancy, and education and is an all-around better system.
Here are the top thirty:
[img]http://i.cubeupload.com/h2F26z.png[/img]
[quote]Vinson, a 1983 Reagan appointee[/quote]
well, theres your problem
[QUOTE=Strider*;28416083]Fuck off with wealth distribution, it has no place in your arguments.
Standard of living is also pretty worthless, sure they have moderately okay health services at the cost of extremely high taxes and a very high cost of living.[/QUOTE]
I am more sure that the service is excellent because I live in one of those countries.
[QUOTE=RBM11;28423005]Was it Glaber or someone else who said they couldn't get into a better college because they were too poor but argued that everyone has an equal opportunity?
Hell being who I am I realize I have an advantage over the majority so I'm not gonna pretend that everyone has an equal opportunity to better themselves. It's fucking tragic they don't have the same opportunities I did to succeed in school and in life and it pisses me off when people try to claim the rich are only rich because they worked harder than everyone else. It's bullshit.
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
It's kinda how in the antebellum South the whole reason that the majority of whites who were poor and owned no slaves defended the institution of slavery, were racist, and put up with having no education opportunities was because of all the bullshit the plantation owners fed them about their potential to one day be as rich as they were and that it was the poor whites' fault they weren't rich.
Then said plantation owners got them to join the army by feeding them the bullshit that they were defending themselves from aggression.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, ridge said he wanted to be a pilot, but the courses were too expensive so he had to drop out and do something else.
And no, he didn't recognize the hypocrisy of that to his world view.
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;28423266]I am more sure that the service is excellent because I live in one of those countries.[/QUOTE]
Hey, he knows better than our first hand experiences and our life experiences in these systems. A few horror stories he can throw around just makes him look like a hero you know?
Fuck sakes he makes me sad.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;28423189]i think that private healthcare still has a place
elective procedures and cosmetic stuff for instance
but no one should go without life saving medication and care because they happened to be born into a bad situation or because we view them as less deserving[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The thing is our system is great if you can afford it. The problem is that health care quality includes everyone, not just those fortunate enough to have good health insurance.
We need a system that can work for us, so maybe we should see how a public option works out along with the insurance company reform included in the 2010 bill. The public option could include preventative and emergency care, mental health care, and prescriptions while those with private insurance will get first in line for procedures like MRIs in non-emergency/elective procedures.
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28423384]Yeah, ridge said he wanted to be a pilot, but the courses were too expensive so he had to drop out and do something else. [/QUOTE]
Damn that really sucks :frown:
The great capitalist equal American society: crushing dreams since forever :patriot:
I gotta' say, I thought Glaber was dense and willfully ignorant, until I read this thread.
Congratulations, Strider*. You win the patented "Golden Douche Award". :v:
:smithicide:
I thank god/Allah/Jehovah/his holy noodliness every day that I was born in Germany and not in the USA.
There is everything here: A strong economy, wealthy corporations, (the third biggest weapon manufacturer), a working social system and the social market.
IMHO the social market is the perfect balance between socialism and capitalism. Neither side alone is good, but together they are awesome.
[QUOTE=Fettamaddy;28424377]I thank god/Allah/Jehovah/his holy noodliness every day that I was born in Germany and not in the USA.
There is everything here: A strong economy, wealthy corporations, (the third biggest weapon manufacturer), a working social system and the social market.
IMHO the social market is the perfect balance between socialism and capitalism. Neither side alone is good, but together they are awesome.[/QUOTE]
We win because we have mountain dew :fsmug:
lassez faire capitalism: fueling workshop labor and systematic poverty since the 12th century.
People still take Strider* seriously?
[QUOTE=RBM11;28425692]We win because we have mountain dew :fsmug:[/QUOTE]
Mountain Dew...our greatest weakness.
Fucking hell
America should just look at any country who has a system somewhat similar to Australia's and copy it exactly.
I'm shocked that you would have to pay to get a broken bone fixed or cancer treatment
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28422742]He's probably going to say he's lower class, just like glaber, just like so many of the conservatives that post here. There all "lower class".[/QUOTE]
My current economic class is really irrelevant.
I won't be sharing.
I want proof it is "unconstitutional".
Americans love to call anything they don't like "unconstitutional".
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;28426277]People still take Strider* seriously?[/QUOTE]
I don't care if they do or don't.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28415242]So what we've determined is that you have all devolved to personal attacks rather than attack the ideas I present.
You ran out of logic in your arsenal and all you're left with is asinine "laughter".[/QUOTE]
I didnt. I just want to know how a single mom would be able to live while raising a mentally unstable daughter.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28427691]I didnt. I just want to know how a single mom would be able to live while raising a mentally unstable daughter.[/QUOTE]
Through work and/or charity.
If I for one knew her personality I know that I would help her out but I shouldn't be forced to give aid.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28416289]A free market allows every man to make something of himself without the burden or shackles of another.
[/QUOTE]
In theory.
But in actual real life, sometimes people just can't. The economic well they come from (or have gotten into) is too deep for them, and they just can't get out. Start to fucking acknowledge that.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28427782]Through work and/or charity.
If I for one knew her personality I know that I would help her out but I shouldn't be forced to give aid.[/QUOTE]
Well working wouldn't work because of the taking care thing. I highly doubt she would be able to get enough money from charity especially since the culture would be more greed Centered. You dont see homeless living in houses by the charity people give to them. Not to mention a mentally unstable person takes a lot more money to take care for.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28427387]My current economic class is really irrelevant.
I won't be sharing.[/QUOTE]
Figured as much, thanks for basically confirming what I thought about it all.
Monopolies are a good thing eh?
It might be fair if everyone started out with the same amount of money and got paid for the work they did rather then how lucky they are in what job they get.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28428407]It might be fair if everyone started out with the same amount of money and got paid for the work they did rather then how lucky they are in what job they get.[/QUOTE]
That was how communism was supposed to work at first, that is until someone in power though it would be a good idea to turn it into a dictatorship.
[QUOTE=Sirias;28428745]That was how communism was supposed to work at first, that is until someone in power though it would be a good idea to turn it into a dictatorship.[/QUOTE]
Both capitalism and communism in their ideal forms are pretty great, but we all have to realize, neither system is possible, neither system can work. All the greatest systems right now, the ones that are showing success even in downturns, by comparison at the very least, are all a middle ground, somewhere in the middle.
Though, From my knowledge, the most left slant are doing the best, where only the biggest right slants can do as well, and they're not doing so great right now. (guess who)
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28428198]Figured as much, thanks for basically confirming what I thought about it all.
Monopolies are a good thing eh?[/QUOTE]
Dude you're arguing with a Randist what r u doin
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
You'll never win
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
Monopoly=god
[QUOTE=RBM11;28428830]Dude you're arguing with a Randist what r u doin
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
You'll never win
[editline]4th March 2011[/editline]
Monopoly=god[/QUOTE]
Clearly. Hank Reardens monopoly in Atlas Shrugged was clearly a good thing, as great of a character as he was.
[QUOTE=Sirias;28428745]That was how communism was supposed to work at first, that is until someone in power though it would be a good idea to turn it into a dictatorship.[/QUOTE]
Well communism didn't use money for trade. But yea the fairness thing was something they promoted.
[QUOTE=Strider*;28416211]Funny how the Scandinavian countries are moving downward on the human development index.
I don't agree with how some of these are determined however.
We don't have a public health care system in the United States and thus when ranked we will of course rank much lower because we aren't "providing" for our citizens.
None of the other indexes include the determination of disposable income.
The middle class is still better off in the United States.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry to dredge this up, but this is THE ONE argument you guys have when someone actually brings facts and indexes in to show how fucking awful your healthcare is compared to Europe. "OH I don't agree with how they're determined" "OH they're liberal biased".
What you mean is "OH they show that American healthcare is fucking shit, it must be wrong"
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;28440454]I'm sorry to dredge this up, but this is THE ONE argument you guys have when someone actually brings facts and indexes in to show how fucking awful your healthcare is compared to Europe. "OH I don't agree with how they're determined" "OH they're liberal biased".
What you mean is "OH they show that American healthcare is fucking shit, it must be wrong"[/QUOTE]
Well Strider's never had a reasonable argument.
I'm going to point out this post as many times as I need to:
[QUOTE=Strider*;28415090]Monopolies don't exist in a free market and if they do it's for the benefit of the people.[/QUOTE]
The people must know.
[QUOTE=certified;28427427]I want proof it is "unconstitutional".
Americans love to call anything they don't like "unconstitutional".[/QUOTE]
You know how one of the defenses was the commerce clause from the US Constitution? Well in truth, the commerce clause can't be use to force a person to buy a product or service they don't want.
The commerce clause is used for the regulation of active trade with foreign Nations, among States, and with the Indian Tribes. ([url]http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec8[/url])
Now because of this, a Mandate to force people to buy something is seen as Unconstitutional, and because of a lack of a severability clause in the law, the mandate winds up taking the WHOLE THING down with it.
[quote] It’s well known that Judge Roger Vinson ruled yesterday that the individual mandate exceeded the powers of the federal government under the Commerce Clause. But he also ruled that because the law lacked a severability clause and the law’s proponents had argued that the individual mandate was a necessary part of the scheme, the entire law was invalid. [/quote]([url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/41375835[/url])
Forcing people to but health insurance makes about as much sense as forcing people to buy whatever.
Oh, and the Obama administration now has [B]5[/B] days left to appeal.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28442384]
Oh, and the Obama administration now has [B]5[/B] days left to appeal.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't have to do shit he's the motherfucking batman
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