• Turkey's PM calls Zionism a crime against humanity, gets bashed by US and UN
    65 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Stopper;39760273]Zionism is, as Pierre said aggressive defense of the "Holy Land". Anti-Semitism is the exact opposite. [/QUOTE] you're mixing it up with anti-zionism.
Well, what Erdogan refers to is the fact that the zionist policies in Israel have caused deaths and displacement of essentially an entire nation, so yeah there was a "crime against humanity" there, even if it isn't necessarily a full-scale genocide. Unfortunately when it comes to crimes against humanity by regimes based on exclusive nationalism destroying populations, Turkey shouldn't be talking, because the same thing has been occurring against the Kurdish population of that country, based on an overblown definition of Turkish identity.
[QUOTE=MercZ;39761802]Well, what Erdogan refers to is the fact that the zionist policies in Israel have caused deaths and displacement of essentially an entire nation, so yeah there was a "crime against humanity" there, even if it isn't necessarily a full-scale genocide. Unfortunately when it comes to crimes against humanity by regimes based on exclusive nationalism destroying populations, Turkey shouldn't be talking, because the same thing has been occurring against the Kurdish population of that country, based on an overblown definition of Turkish identity.[/QUOTE] and armenia, don't mention that around turks.
[QUOTE=smurfy;39761591]I think he's suggesting that Turkey end their military occupation of Northern Cyprus[/QUOTE] I love how [I]no one[/I] thinks that Northern Cyprus is a real country but Turkey.
[QUOTE=redhaven;39761352]I agree with the Turkish PM, however, we would love for him to make some examples, why not start by ending the illegal occupation of EU soil. Thank you.[/QUOTE] return constantinople to greece too [editline]2nd March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=BrainDeath;39761952]I love how [I]no one[/I] thinks that Northern Cyprus is a real country but Turkey.[/QUOTE] it is a real country
[QUOTE=lapsus_;39760491]from the article: Zionism is an ideology or movement that asserts that the Jewish people have a right to a national home or state in what was the Biblical "Land of Israel". It's like if I, tomorrow morning, wake up and say, I'm italian, thus I have a right on every european territory because it was Roman. Pack your stuff and get out of your homes, they belong to me. What? You've been here for 2000 years? Why would I care! My book here, [i]Commentariio de Bello Gallico - Julius Caesar[/i] says otherwise.[/QUOTE] Maybe because you weren't oppressed for thousands of years from being kicked out of your own homeland and living under foreign countries who abused your rights? Maybe because the central theme of your religion isn't to go back to Jerusalem? Maybe because only under your own religion's/ethnic group's rule, your rights and status would be better?
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39772993]Maybe because you weren't oppressed for thousands of years from being kicked out of your homeland and living under foreign countries who gave you abused your rights? Maybe because the central theme of your religion isn't to go back to Jerusalem? Maybe because only under your own religion's rule your rights and status would be better?[/QUOTE] religion hehe cute ^_^
[QUOTE=Ponder;39773017]religion hehe cute ^_^[/QUOTE] Jews have a longer historical connection to the land than any other ethnic group. The land has been Jewish for thousands of years. If it were ruled by Palestinians, I bet there wouldn't be freedom of worship and probably Hamas would use it as a launching pad for rockets against Jews.
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39773031]Jews are an ethnic group too.[/QUOTE] You do know that jews is composed of 13 different tribes?
[QUOTE=overpain;39773083]You do know that jews is composed of 13 different tribes?[/QUOTE] But under genetic testing they all have share the same genetic lineage.
[QUOTE=lapsus_;39760491]from the article: Zionism is an ideology or movement that asserts that the Jewish people have a right to a national home or state in what was the Biblical "Land of Israel". It's like if I, tomorrow morning, wake up and say, I'm italian, thus I have a right on every european territory because it was Roman. Pack your stuff and get out of your homes, they belong to me. What? You've been here for 2000 years? Why would I care! My book here, [i]Commentariio de Bello Gallico - Julius Caesar[/i] says otherwise.[/QUOTE] zionism by that definition is perfectly acceptable and in fact a reasonable ideology for many people. it would be the same as poles wanting a national homeland when the germans and russians had occupied most of it. it's the same as if the the greek people began to want their own homeland after being occupied heavily by the ottomans. nowhere in that definition does it say "kick the palestinians out". it says that they want a home there too now. zionism itself is not bad, even noam chomsky, one of the most vehement critics of israel, considers himself a zionist in many ways. it's unfortunate because many groups have twisted the word "zionism" to mean "pro-israel", which is completely inaccurate.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;39760148]-googles- Oh shit, you're quite right. Yeah thats kinda fucked up, I can see how that'd be considered a crime. Crime against all of humanity though? Hmmmmmmmyeah I guess I can see that too.[/QUOTE] when they're willing to oppress and stranglehold the supplies an entire people purely because they sat on a peice of dirt within jizzing distance of their totalitarian wall they're kind of commiting crimes against humanity. a crime of humanity doesn't necessarily mean against the entire human race, it means against human nature.
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39773105]But under genetic testing they all have share the same genetic lineage.[/QUOTE] Surely Ethiopian jews, Askhenazi jews and Samaritans has same genetic lineage when they even have different skin color. Jew is religion, not a race.
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39773031]Jews have a longer historical connection to the land than any other ethnic group.[/QUOTE] That's not a valid reason, not even in the slightest. That would be like.... the Welsh or Cornish trying to displace the English out of the British isles. The Arabs have been the majority population in the greater Jerusalem region for well over a thousand years, there's no moral or logical grounds for the Jewish to claim ownership over a territory if they haven't ruled it for well over 2000 years. [editline]2nd March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=overpain;39773827] Jew is religion, not a race.[/QUOTE] It's an ethnoreligous group. It's possible to be of the Jewish faith without being part of a Jewish ethnicity, but many, if not most people of Jewish faith are from a distinct ethnic group.
[QUOTE=overpain;39773827]Surely Ethiopian jews, Askhenazi jews and Samaritans has same genetic lineage when they even have different skin color. Jew is religion, not a race.[/QUOTE] they are an ethnic group too. ethnicity has not a whole lot to do with genetic similarities as much as it does have to do with cultural similarities. often, an ethnicity is about a common ancestor(turkic people used to claim to come from a single tribe/clan, for example), but in reality this is more a cultural artifact. there is a jewish ethnicity because jews around the world share a common heritage, culture, and language. although an american jew will have a different culture than someone from israel, or someone from africa, there is a common thread between them that they are generally conscious of.
all ethnic groups are selfish assholes that should grow up
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;39774062]That's not a valid reason, not even in the slightest. That would be like.... the Welsh or Cornish trying to displace the English out of the British isles. The Arabs have been the majority population in the greater Jerusalem region for well over a thousand years, there's no moral or logical grounds for the Jewish to claim ownership over a territory if they haven't ruled it for well over 2000 years.[/QUOTE] so the jewish people don't deserve a nation that represents them even though they have lived in that region just as long as the arabs?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39774150]so the jewish people don't deserve a nation that represents them even though they have lived in that region just as long as the arabs?[/QUOTE] No one ever said Israel shouldn't be a state, Everyone just hates how they treat Palestinians [img]http://i.imgur.com/DCWMHEa.jpg[/img] And when confronted about their crimes they pull out holocaust card.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39774150]so the jewish people don't deserve a nation that represents them even though they have lived in that region just as long as the arabs?[/QUOTE] No, I just don't think that any colonial power should have the ability to designate a piece of ethnically held Arab land as a distinctly Jewish territory, especially since the region has been ethnically shared for thousands of years. There's no right or reason for a homogenous Jewish state to exist in the Palestinian region. They either need to share the land with the natives who live there or they need to get out. If a Jewish state can't exist without insisting upon being ethnically and religiously homogenous, and/or forcing out the native Arab populace in order to achieve that, then they shouldn't be given land or be supported in their efforts. The Zionist movement should not have been given the land in Palestine in the first place, and the Israeli government has only aggravated the issue since they unjustly received ownership of the land. At this point it seems like western nations support Israel just to save face.
[QUOTE=overpain;39774195]No one ever said Israel shouldn't be a state, Everyone just hates how they treat Palestinians [/QUOTE] well yea any sane person should be able to realize that israel is not a legitimate "jewish state". a legitimate jewish state should be able to co-exist with the arabs. the point of a jewish state is a place where jewish people can feel free to immigrate to and be more fairly represented. that's not exactly the way israel actually operates, though.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;39774321]There's no right or reason for a homogenous Jewish state to exist in the Palestinian region. They either need to share the land with the natives who live there or they need to get out.[/QUOTE] Get out? Is this still an argument 60 years after the fact?
Well, Israel has one of the highest populations of Palestinians, So the fact that there are Palestinian people already living there seems like they ain't all that Pro-israeli zionist. Or is there evidence of Palestinian segregation going on in israel?
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39773031]Jews are an ethnic group, too.[/QUOTE] Errm, not entirely. They're part of the Hebrew ethnic group, which is, of course, lighter, more olive skinned Arabs that hail from ancient Israel.
[QUOTE=That Poster;39759986]Hey, I've got an idea. Let's not condemn people merely for holding beliefs, stupid though they may be.[/QUOTE] Nah.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;39776551]Errm, not entirely. They're part of the Hebrew ethnic group, which is, of course, lighter, more olive skinned Arabs that hail from ancient Israel.[/QUOTE] Jews aren't Arabs and they aren't as related to them as once thought. They are more related to Kurds, Turks, and Armenians.
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39776889]Jews aren't Arabs and they aren't as related to them as once thought. They are more related to Kurds, Turks, and Armenians.[/QUOTE] Oh, alrighty then.
[QUOTE=Intel Inside;39772993]Maybe because you weren't oppressed for thousands of years from being kicked out of your own homeland and living under foreign countries who abused your rights? Maybe because the central theme of your religion isn't to go back to Jerusalem? Maybe because only under your own religion's/ethnic group's rule, your rights and status would be better?[/QUOTE] israel wasnt a land without people and we werent people without a land
I'm confused about the ratings in the OP,are the winner ratings agreeing with the Turkish PM or are they agreeing with his statements being condemned?
[QUOTE=killkill85;39782751]I'm confused about the ratings in the OP,are the winner ratings agreeing with the Turkish PM or are they agreeing with his statements being condemned?[/QUOTE] Most likely they think he's a boss for openly calling out Israel's shitty policies regarding the treatment of Palestinians
all aboard the facepunch smug athiest train woo wooo
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