[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;42010648]AHHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm assuming you've never worked fast food, have you boy?[/QUOTE]
I worked at the busiest mcdonalds in my town for a year, it really isnt that hard at all. Most of the work is done for you. The only people i ever seen complain was high schoolers who never had a job before.
I also done some immigrant construction work once, now thats a hard job. I even had the easiest job which was just moving heavy buckets of rocks back and forth for an entire day.
[editline]29th August 2013[/editline]
Also im not saying they shouldnt be payed more, just not more than $10ish
The problem with people in this thread that thinks raising the minimum wage actually helps no nothing about economics.
Raising the minimum wage will raise the the money for other products, companies have to pay their employees more and than they must raise the prices of their products/services. Look at Australia. They get payed alot more but ends up having everything expensive there.
Its gonna be the exact same shit different numbers, maybe worse if the workers who get paid above minimum wage dont get a pay raise too and they have to pay more for everything and/or have to lower their standards of living.
Seriously there's nothing uniquely difficult about working fast food. As bad and cliche as it sounds, get a real job and then you will see what it's actually like have to do something difficult and work with other people as a coherent team and operate machines that are more complicated than pressing a button saying "NO LETTUCE"
Dont lock this one, this thread is as shitty as mine turned out
I'm all for a higher minimum wage, but I do recognize the hurdles and potential issues that surround it. If you have a minimum wage that is too high, you improve the buying power of the lower class, which is invaluable for the economy. At the same time, a lot of small businesses might have a harder time if they have to pay their employee's $12/h rather than $8/h. It does add up quick for small business owners, and there is the potential for jobs to be lost, and not just for greed.
Another issue which concerns me more is your typical high school graduate. If minimum wage is at level where a lot of 18 & 19 year olds can work and get by decently well off, there is a lack of incentive to pursue higher education that is likely to be a burden for 10 - 20 years after they graduate, leaving the economy with a lack of skilled workers. But at the same time, minimum wage should be at a level where you can get by decently well off. It is almost a paradox.
There are many other things that have to be fixed along with minimum wage. I am for a higher minimum wage, far higher minimum wage. I just recognize it is a difficult thing to tackle, politics aside.
If everyone got better jobs then who would get your McDonalds... Yeah, people, someone needs to do these shitty jobs and they deserve to be able to survive off them too.
Your minimum wage is a disgrace, so more power to these people for trying to increase it
I went to taco bell today and the guy at the drive through had way too much energy.
I don't understand this. You don't work at a fast food place for years then complain about the wages. You work there long enough to find something better so you can support yourself.
This is a bit of a touchy subject. Yeah, they're supposedly "entry level" jobs, but that doesn't suddenly mean everyone who works a fast food job is worthless or whatever the fuck. Yeah, they deserve more money, but how much? I see some truth in both sides, really. These people should absolutely do everything they can to get out of the minimum wage job, but that's really fucking hard, especially with our education system spiraling out of control with costs doing nothing but going up. But when the minimum acceptable living wage is what, $20.71? Seven bucks ain't shit, and that's just not fair to all of those people.
They aren't careers, though. Fast food jobs are great fills for teenagers. They don't need a minimum acceptable living wage.
[QUOTE=Bryanrocks0;42011755]I don't understand this. You don't work at a fast food place for years then complain about the wages. You work there long enough to find something better so you can support yourself.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. If you base your career off of working at a fast food place, you're doing something wrong.
Theres a reason you only see young adults and old people working at these places, same reason you mostly see them at retail stores. They're great jobs for people who can't get a real, stable job when they are young and they need to temporarily support themselves before they have accumulated debt and they have car, house, and family bills.
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42009869]Most of those workers make atleast $9/hour, which is alot better than the $7.25/hr alot of other fast food workers get, now they want $15/hr to flip burgers, thats illogical[/QUOTE]
My girlfriend has worked for Burger King for 4 years and makes $7.75 which is as much as most of the shift supervisors there make.
[QUOTE=mark6789;42010512]$8 and thats it. You want a high paying job? Get a certificate or a degree. [/QUOTE]
This would be an okay thing to say if this strike was being held in one of those nice actually-first-world countries where you don't have to take out a life-crippling loan to get a good tertiary education
[QUOTE=mark6789;42010767]Really? Yes i have worked at fast food before. If you call that hard work then you have no idea what hard work really is.[/QUOTE]
Were you a cook or did you work on the register? At my place we had 2 people working in the back doing everything.
I actually change my mind, first fix the problem with high education causing you to be in more debt than the US. Then you can raise the pay like 3 dollars.
[QUOTE=mark6789;42010512]$8 and thats it. You want a high paying job? Get a certificate or a degree. Make something of yourself. People who now make $15 an hour have probably worked hard to get where there at and have to do hard work everyday. While these clowns who work at fast food want the same pay because of what? The "hard" work they do? Try working at Sony during this 95 degree weather with no fans in a factory with only $9 an hour for 12 hours straight. This is all bullshit.[/QUOTE]
try working in a commercial kitchen (some of which can get up to 120 degrees depending on how big the vents are) while constantly pushing out burgers and fries while having to keep up sanitation standards to the bare minimum while the manager/chef hounds you for the smallest mistake.
How the hell do you expect people to get a degree if they don't have the money to get into college?
I make 10 dollars an hour making sure german airforce pilots don't beat up the drunk british pilots at the local airbase.
Before that I was making 10 dollars an hour, 12 hours a day, out in the desert with no shade making sure thieves weren't stealing copper.
I put in a lot of work to get where I am, and maybe is the wrong way to think, but this 15 dollars an hour for fast food thing isn't sitting too well with me.
[QUOTE=Hoboiam;42012814]I make 10 dollars an hour making sure german airforce pilots don't beat up the drunk british pilots at the local airbase.
Before that I was making 10 dollars an hour, 12 hours a day, out in the desert with no shade making sure thieves weren't stealing copper.
I put in a lot of work to get where I am, and maybe is the wrong way to think, but this 15 dollars an hour for fast food thing isn't sitting too well with me.[/QUOTE]
they won't be getting 15 dollars an hour.
This is like going to mexico and bartering down the insane tourist prices they have for nicknacks.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42012837]they won't be getting 15 dollars an hour.
This is like going to mexico and bartering down the insane tourist prices they have for nicknacks.[/QUOTE]
when i went to mexico i paid those insane prices :(
[QUOTE=Hoboiam;42012899]when i went to mexico i paid those insane prices :([/QUOTE]
I managed to barter down a 30 dollar statue made by "native artisans" to 5 dollars. Which was lucky considering that when I removed the price sticker I saw a "made in Vietnam" engraving.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42012800]try working in a commercial kitchen (some of which can get up to 120 degrees depending on how big the vents are) while constantly pushing out burgers and fries while having to keep up sanitation standards to the bare minimum while the manager/chef hounds you for the smallest mistake.
How the hell do you expect people to get a degree if they don't have the money to get into college?[/QUOTE]
Valuable skills are what increase one's wage, not ability to do difficult physical labor.
Is lifting 50lb rocks hard? Yes. Can a massive number of people do it without training? Yes. It will therefore get a low wage.
I've worked both the kitchen and front in the fast food industry and they were both simple. They were not fun (like 90% of all work), but they weren't difficult. Any job that you can learn in 2 days won't get paid much.
[QUOTE]doesnt mean they dont deserve a living wage[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as an objective value of work. Your work is worth what someone will pay you to do it. No one "deserves" anything unless they signed a contract that agrees to it.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42013348]Valuable skills are what increase one's wage, not ability to do difficult physical labor.
Is lifting 50lb rocks hard? Yes. Can a massive number of people do it without training? Yes. It will therefore get a low wage.[/QUOTE]
That is not a reason to advocate low wages. The low wages make people incapable of getting the skills needed to get a better job.
Also when you get to the higher levels of the culinary industry (line cooks, prep cooks in actual restaurants) you do actually need a degree of finesse and shitloads of skill to be an effective worker. Yet they generally aren't getting paid much better.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42013386]That is not a reason to advocate low wages. The low wages make people incapable of getting the skills needed to get a better job.[/QUOTE]
I'm not advocating any wage. People should be paid what their work is worth. The only way to know what one's work is worth is by what someone else is willing to freely pay you.
Also, they would be doing the same exact work even if they were paid more. The skills they learn wouldn't change.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42013417]I'm not advocating any wage. People should be paid what their work is worth. The only way to know what one's work is worth is by what someone else is willing to freely pay you.
Also, they would be doing the same exact work even if they were paid more. The skills they learn wouldn't change.[/QUOTE]
Who are you to determine the worth of peoples work?
Also the skills they learn will change due to them actually having the opportunity to get higher education.
[QUOTE=mark6789;42010512]$8 and thats it. You want a high paying job? Get a certificate or a degree. Make something of yourself. People who now make $15 an hour have probably worked hard to get where there at and have to do hard work everyday. While these clowns who work at fast food want the same pay because of what? The "hard" work they do? Try working at Sony during this 95 degree weather with no fans in a factory with only $9 an hour for 12 hours straight. This is all bullshit.[/QUOTE]
let me just go to college to get a degree
*pulls into his imaginary fake wallet and pays for college* there we go! now i work as a CEO at NASA making 7 figures.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42013441]Who are you to determine the worth of peoples work?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? You are the one arbitrarily determining the worth of people's work by demanding they get paid more.
I'm saying the only way to determine the worth of work is by what someone is willing to pay. If I go to mow lawns in my neighborhood the only way I can figure out what the work is worth is by what my neighbor is willing to pay me. It doesn't matter if I demand $100 a lawn. If no one is willing to pay that much than my work isn't worth that much.
Under that same line of thought: If I demand $15/hr doing fast food work, but no one is willing to pay that much then the work isn't worth that much.
The McDonald's here starts at $15/hr
[QUOTE=mark6789;42010512]$8 and thats it. You want a high paying job? Get a certificate or a degree. Make something of yourself. People who now make $15 an hour have probably worked hard to get where there at and have to do hard work everyday. While these clowns who work at fast food want the same pay because of what? The "hard" work they do? Try working at Sony during this 95 degree weather with no fans in a factory with only $9 an hour for 12 hours straight. This is all bullshit.[/QUOTE]
lol
It will take me at least four years [i]full-time[/i] to finish my double degree at uni, perhaps with one more year on top of that if I want to attempt an honours. But At the rate I'm going it will take me six years due to being on the minimum requirement for full-time (to be flexible around work). What do you suppose I do for a job while I study at uni? How would I support myself when I would only receive enough government assistance to cover just the cost of my rent?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;42013772]lol
It will take me at least four years [I]full-time[/I] to finish my double degree at uni, perhaps with one more year on top of that if I want to attempt an honours. But At the rate I'm going it will take me six years due to being on the minimum requirement for full-time (to be flexible around work). What do you suppose I do for a job while I study at uni? How would I support myself when I would only receive enough government assistance to cover just the cost of my rent?[/QUOTE]
Don't get a double degree if you can't afford it. Why should someone else be forced to pay for your personal choices?
People always think of loans as some terrible demon force, but they're not. Loans are a great way to delay payment for worthwhile things and a degree is one of these things (depending on the degree).
[QUOTE=mark6789;42010642]they dont have that hard of a job.[/QUOTE]
You know nothing of hardship, whelp.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42013593]What are you talking about? You are the one arbitrarily determining the worth of people's work by demanding they get paid more.[/QUOTE]
Show me the part where I determined the worth of peoples work? I only stated they should be paid enough to have an actual chance of advancement.
[quote]
I'm saying the only way to determine the worth of work is by what someone is willing to pay. If I go to mow lawns in my neighborhood the only way I can figure out what the work is worth is by what my neighbor is willing to pay me. It doesn't matter if I demand $100 a lawn. If no one is willing to pay that much than my work isn't worth that much. [/quote]
Well then shit we should get rid of minimum wage then! I'm pretty sure a lot of employers would be willing to pay their workers much less!
Wage should be determined not only by some arbitrary "skill level". but by how much is actually required to sustain oneself and actually have a chance to advance themselves.
[quote]
Under that same line of thought: If I demand $15/hr doing fast food work, but no one is willing to pay that much then the work isn't worth that much.[/quote]
they don't expect to get 15/hr. They set the bar that high so they can actually negotiate effectively. They probably want an increase of a few dollars at most.
[editline]29th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;42013794]Don't get a double degree if you can't afford it. Why should someone else be forced to pay for your personal choices?
People always think of loans as some terrible demon force, but they're not. Loans are a great way to delay payment for worthwhile things and a degree is one of these things (depending on the degree).[/QUOTE]
wow. "Hey man you shouldn't be able to advance yourself because of your personal choices" - your argument.
You also seem to think that getting a degree automatically lets you pay off the massive debt student loans tend to leave you in.
Just having a degree won't get you a good high paying job. You still have to get actual work experience (sometimes in the form of [I]unpaid[/I] internships) to get a higher wage.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42013919]Show me the part where I determined the worth of peoples work[/QUOTE]
"I only stated they should be paid enough to have an actual chance of advancement."
You literally did it in the next sentence. You are demanding that people are paid, no matter the work, enough for some vague idea of "advancement." The fact is that most (~97% [URL]http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm[/URL]) people already advance out of minimum wage work.
[QUOTE]Well then shit we should get rid of minimum wage then! I'm pretty sure a lot of employers would be willing to pay their workers much less![/QUOTE]
Only 3% of people over the age of 25 work the minimum wage (refer to previous source). By getting rid of the minimum wage you would only negatively effect that 3% while also lowering the necessary skills to find work. The higher the minimum wage the higher the necessary skills needed to work. Minority and youth unemployment rates are hit the hardest when the minimum wage is increased.
"While minimum wages ostensibly aim to improve the economic well-being of the working poor, the disemployment effects of a minimum wages have been found to fall disproportionately on the least skilled and on the most disadvantaged individuals, mincluding the disabled, youth, lower-skilled workers, immigrants, and ethnic minorities." ([URL]http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA701.pdf[/URL] page 6)
[QUOTE]Wage should be determined not only by some arbitrary "skill level".[/QUOTE]
I agree, I said it should be determine by what someone is willing to pay. This is in fact the only non-arbitrary way to decide the worth of work.
[QUOTE]but by how much is actually required to sustain oneself and actually have a chance to advance themselves.[/QUOTE]
Can you give some non-arbitrary description of how a living wage has anything to do with the actual worth of one's work.
The same job isn't necessarily worth more in a place with more expensive living costs then in a place with lower living costs.
[QUOTE]they don't expect to get 15/hr. They set the bar that high so they can actually negotiate effectively. They probably want an increase of a few dollars at most.[/QUOTE]
The actual number is irrelevant, the important part is the hypothetical situation. It doesn't matter what I think my lawn mowing work is worth if people aren't willing to pay me that much.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;42013919]wow. "Hey man you shouldn't be able to advance yourself because of your personal choices" - your argument.[/QUOTE]
So should society pay for me to get 10 PhDs? I only want to advance myself.
[QUOTE]You also seem to think that getting a degree automatically lets you pay off the massive debt student loans tend to leave you in.[/QUOTE]
It's really not that hard if you get a degree that society actually needs. 2 years in community college is easy to pay off with low wage work and loans for the other 2 years at a 4 year college aren't going to be ridiculous either. Assuming you don't go to some super expensive school.
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