• Germany's Merkel says refugees must return home once war is over
    68 replies, posted
i think if you make such a huge decision such as allowing refugees home in your country, hoping to start a new, at least stick threw with it don't puss out mid way threw and make false promises.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49640078]The muslims that have traditionally immigrated to countries such as Canada have always been the educated liberal parts of their societies coming for work. Many of the people coming into Europe right now are coming simply because their homelands have been destroyed or are coming to benefit off of the generous European welfare states. Many of these people will almost certainly have values incompatible with those of the west. This is why Sweden is now the rape capital of the world, why violent crime is on the rise in countries such as the UK and why anti-semitic attacks are on the rise. Germany accepted Turks after ww2 and many of those people have also failed to integrate and thats Turks, the most progressive and secular people in the Islamic world[/QUOTE] Sweden has a relatively broad definition of rape and also has an unorthodox way of recording instances that leads to relatively inflated statistics In the UK we are gutting the police with budget cuts - to the point that it is official policy now to not respond to burglaries. Bearing in mind the number of immigrants the UK has taken in recently has been pathetically small compared to other countries in mainland Europe (when Germany promised to take in 800,000 we promised 20,000) I don't see where your correlation=causation point is even going there "anti-semitic attacks are on the rise" Well that's vague and ambigious, isn't it? "Many of the people coming into Europe right now are coming simply because their homelands have been destroyed or are coming to benefit off of the generous European welfare states." What a moderate statement lol, you use the word "most" but then go on to describe two camps of people who are polar opposites in attitude, almost like you really want to say the latter but don't want to be called out for generalising
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49639999][B]Multiculturalism is fine[/B]. However, when the cultural differences are too large it just doesn't work out.[/QUOTE] Obviously it isn't working.
[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49640220]Obviously it isn't working.[/QUOTE] Multiculturalism can work if done over time and if you regulate out the worst parts of each culture that conflict with one another. Neither of these criteria are being met in this crisis and everyone involved will be worse off for it in the long run. The biggest irony of this situation is that the left is forcing everyone to accept the least tolerant widely adopted culture on the planet, and then blaming one of the most tolerant groups of people in the whole world when problems result from it. If governments fail to protect their citizens, they will feel pressure to protect themselves, and the more the government tries to Ham fistedly force acceptance from their citizens, the bigger the push back will be when those citizens concerns are not addressed.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49640078][B]This is why Sweden is now the rape capital of the world[/B], why violent crime is on the rise in countries such as the UK and why anti-semitic attacks are on the rise.[/QUOTE] how the fuck does this myth keep going? [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372"]not only[/URL] [URL="https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2011-01-18-how-common-is-rape-in-sweden-compared-to-other-european-countries.html"]does it rely on[/URL][URL="http://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/"] extremely flawed methodology[/URL] even a cursory google search can explain, but even if i shared the anti-refugee sentiment, it wouldn't make any logical or mathematical sense. you're saying the rape rates are worse in a Western European country with a portion of migrants than it is in the countries those migrants predominantly come from and from which they apparently get their rapey inclinations, as if it can both be a problem endemic to the culture but also be a much lesser issue in the countries the culture is endemic to, contrary to what one would logically expect. i mean do you really think women in Saudia Arabia are going to talk to the police if their husband assaults them? do you think a small and liberal Scandinavian country is going to have the same definition of rape as them? from literally every perspective - statistical, mathematical, or rhetorical - it could not make less sense to say that Sweden has the highest rape rates in the world.
[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49640220]Obviously it isn't working.[/QUOTE] while the state can do a lot to help integrate, its really up to the immigrants. vietnamese refugees for example integrated in a very short time because they wanted to be part of the US, but other groups the people come in and just want to continue living the same as they were and they don't integrate, or worse they insist on treating everybody like they were in their original country which is how you end up with these rape gangs and islamic patrols
[QUOTE=Cone;49640338]how the fuck does this myth keep going? [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372"]not only[/URL] [URL="https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2011-01-18-how-common-is-rape-in-sweden-compared-to-other-european-countries.html"]does it rely on[/URL][URL="http://debunkingdenialism.com/2015/12/12/how-anti-immigration-activists-misuse-rape-statistics/"] extremely flawed methodology[/URL] even a cursory google search can explain, but even if i shared the anti-refugee sentiment, it wouldn't make any logical or mathematical sense. you're saying the rape rates are worse in a Western European country with a portion of migrants than it is in the countries those migrants predominantly come from and from which they apparently get their rapey inclinations, as if it can both be a problem endemic to the culture but also be a much lesser issue in the countries the culture is endemic to, contrary to what one would logically expect. i mean do you really think women in Saudia Arabia are going to talk to the police if their husband assaults them? do you think a small and liberal Scandinavian country is going to have the same definition of rape as them? from literally every perspective - statistical, mathematical, or rhetorical - it could not make less sense to say that Sweden has the highest rape rates in the world.[/QUOTE] It keeps going because it fits nice and well into their anti-muslim agenda.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49639999]Multiculturalism is fine. However, when the cultural differences are too large it just doesn't work out.[/QUOTE] This is meaningless. You're just saying "other cultures are OK as long as they are OK."
[QUOTE=DeEz;49640612]It keeps going because it fits nice and well into their anti-muslim agenda.[/QUOTE] but even from a virulently anti-Muslim perspective it makes no sense because it insinuates that Middle Eastern justice and legal systems somehow handle these violent subhumans better than fucking Sweden can, downplaying the massive issues within those systems and in the process essentially contradicting any pretensions of being against Islam strictly in defence of human rights. it's such a terribly thought-out narrative that it can't even get its own lying spiel straight.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49640583]while the state can do a lot to help integrate, its really up to the immigrants. vietnamese refugees for example integrated in a very short time because they wanted to be part of the US, but other groups the people come in and just want to continue living the same as they were and they don't integrate, or worse they insist on treating everybody like they were in their original country which is how you end up with these rape gangs and islamic patrols[/QUOTE]Really it boils down to this. Even then immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries aren't universally going to integrate the same way or at least that seems to have been the case in Minneapolis. There's a surprising number of Egyptians who behave quite differently than Somalians, or even Saudis, and this really isn't even getting into the bag of fun that is the different flavors of Islam. It seems the most inflammatory and hostile migrants come from either East Africa or the Gulf, and unsurprisingly these are also extremely conservative countries that have had their share of extremism and violence. I'm sure there's some link there and I'm guessing it has it's foundation in the religion, the culture, and political forces that have been in motion since the 1960's. Plus you have other issues too, Somalis are almost universally despised partially because of their negative stereotypes that they inadvertently perpetuate. It's a self-perpetuating cycle but Minneapolis is a great example of a diverse city that can deal with these problems. (or at least it's been good so far, no race riots or widespread ethnic violence)
[QUOTE=DeEz;49640612]It keeps going because it fits nice and well into their anti-muslim agenda.[/QUOTE] You got me, bro. If it weren't for those meddling kids I would have killed all Muslims by now! Grrrr I hate non-whites! I am racist hear me roar! Believe it or not, I'm concerned about disproportionate rape rate ≠ I hate Muslims. But I guess that wouldn't fit into your liberal agenda. You're the one assuming Muslims must be rapists.
why are so many of you against refugees
[QUOTE=kr1f333;49640925]why are so many of you against refugees[/QUOTE] Are you being sarcastic or is this a serious question? If it is serious, many people are upset that taking in millions of refugees in a short amount is not actually working, and crime is rising in areas where these economic migrants are staying, most of the crime being rape and looting. Even worse is that some police and news agencies are not reporting on it because of the fear of being labeled "Xenophobic" and 'Racist".
[QUOTE=DeEz;49640612]It keeps going because it fits nice and well into their anti-muslim agenda.[/QUOTE] Facepunch, continuing to peg disagreeable arguments as offensive in a race to the bottom of the intellectual barrel just so their worldviews are protected.
[QUOTE=kr1f333;49640925]why are so many of you against refugees[/QUOTE] People each have their own reasons, mine are lack of transparency and horrible communication with native folk.
[QUOTE=phygon;49641901]Facepunch, continuing to peg disagreeable arguments as offensive in a race to the bottom just so their worldviews are protected.[/QUOTE] "the racists" and "the sexists" are in 2016 what "the blacks" and "the women" were in 1916. Popular scapegoats.
[QUOTE=phygon;49641901]Facepunch, continuing to peg disagreeable arguments as offensive in a race to the bottom of the intellectual barrel just so their worldviews are protected.[/QUOTE] that's cool can we get a response to the post that posted sources, indicating that sweden is not the rape capital of europe? or are you just going to post the above so that you can avoid actually talking about sources, evidence and studies
[QUOTE=Jordax;49640198]It's not impossible, but it is clear that there are significant issues among them, which leads to them failing to integrate even after multiple generations, despite other immigrants from other cultures, such as Indonesians and Vietnamese, integrating and assimilating within one single generation without much trouble. But good luck ever seeing the left acknowledge that there are problems. Remember Pim Fortuyn? He called this sort of stuff for more than 16 years ago, when it was already clear that there were significant issues going on with muslims integrating into Europa, and such, tried to discuss closing down the Netherlands' borders if he got elected, since you cannot solve an issue by just letting it increase. He also pointed out how the left was letting in hordes of immigrants who were against the, for the time, very liberal values the Netherlands had, such as rights for homosexuals and lesbians. It should also be noted that Fortuyn was one of the few Dutch politicians who was openly homosexual. The man got fucking hounded by the leftist media here right until his assassination on 6 May 2002 by far-left terrorist Volkert van der Graaf. His party was leading in the polls at that moment, and he would probably have been elected President if he wasn't assassinated in the first political assassination in the Netherlands in over three centuries. And van der Graaf only got 12 years of prison time for it, which is without a doubt one of the biggest juridical injustices the country has ever known. [/QUOTE] I never quite get it when you PVV folk talk about the big bad boogeyman 'left'. Is anyone that isn't the PVV 'the left'? The VVD for example is, by definition, not left. Many of our other parties aren't left either, they're more like centre parties. The governing party in Germany which you keep calling out for being left, isn't really a left party either, it's centre-right. Do your politics revolve around this one issue so much that you even call parties that, in the bigger picture are right, left? Anyway, the leader of 1 of our governing parties, the [b]Labour[/b] (!!!!LEFT!!!!) party, has actually come up with a plan to limit the amount of refugees coming in, which is what the EU as a whole would like to do. I know that you'd like the borders to close completely, but I get the idea that you think 'the left' wants the refugee flow to keep coming in full force, when that's not really true. [QUOTE=Jordax;49640198] I seriously wonder how we would have been off if he wasn't assassinated. Maybe we wouldn't be in this fucking mess right now.[/QUOTE] I don't know man, when Pim's party got its position in the government, the cabinet completely fell apart due to infighting (in Pim's party, by the way), and a new government had to be elected.
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49640730]You got me, bro. If it weren't for those meddling kids I would have killed all Muslims by now! Grrrr I hate non-whites! I am racist hear me roar! Believe it or not, I'm concerned about disproportionate rape rate ≠ I hate Muslims. But I guess that wouldn't fit into your liberal agenda. You're the one assuming Muslims must be rapists.[/QUOTE] You're "concerned" about disproportionate rape rates but didn't make the effort of educating yourself. Hmm.
[QUOTE=phygon;49641901]Facepunch, continuing to peg disagreeable arguments as offensive in a race to the bottom of the intellectual barrel just so their worldviews are protected.[/QUOTE] *posts something objectively wrong* "disagreeable arguments" how about people stop lying first and then i'll stop thinking they're pushing an agenda
I believe we should start the purge of Europe and reclaim our lands to repel and destroy the disgusting and inhuman muslim invader. I propose we shall start by the women and the children. Don't leave any of them alive. Those who are not white and can only speak arabian or some other sub lenguage, must be completely destroyed. Fire will do the cleansing. That way, they won't be able to reproduce and our victory will be at least secured by time. EDIT: We've got to design the flags and choose our battle chant. Maybe Falalalan will do it.
Welp, that's what you get for acting without thinking what will happen next. Europe, you basically fucked yourself. And did it willingly I must add. I mean, taking refuges is a humane and right thing to do, sure, but you cannot just do it and think 'it'll sort itself out'. Because, shit, it didn't. When you do something like this you NEED to do that kind of stuff smart not full retard. Now people are getting raped, robbed and shit. And now you really brought it on yourself.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;49642903]I believe we should start the purge of Europe and reclaim our lands to repel and destroy the disgusting and inhuman muslim invader. I propose we shall start by the women and the children. Don't leave any of them alive. Those who are not white and can only speak arabian or some other sub lenguage, must be completely destroyed. Fire will do the cleansing. That way, they won't be able to reproduce and our victory will be at least secured by time. EDIT: We've got to design the flags and choose our battle chant. Maybe Falalalan will do it.[/QUOTE] can i beat my buddy achmed with a crucifix
[QUOTE=maniacykt;49642999]Welp, that's what you get for acting without thinking what will happen next. Europe, you basically fucked yourself. And did it willingly I must add. I mean, taking refuges is a humane and right thing to do, sure, but you cannot just do it and think 'it'll sort itself out'. Because, shit, it didn't. When you do something like this you NEED to do that kind of stuff smart not full retard. Now people are getting raped, robbed and shit. And now you really brought it on yourself.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's nice way of saying "Governments raped their own citizens"
[QUOTE=Da Bomb76;49640648]This is meaningless. You're just saying "other cultures are OK as long as they are OK."[/QUOTE] That is not a meaningless statement.
lmao good luck with that shit they will probably get violent [editline]31st January 2016[/editline] that, or the prospect of any middle-eastern area being a "war-is-over" zone. Bwahahaha
[QUOTE=Tarver;49643035]can i beat my buddy achmed with a crucifix[/QUOTE] Deal. But then, he must be crucified Deus vult
[QUOTE=DeEz;49642721]You're "concerned" about disproportionate rape rates but didn't make the effort of educating yourself. Hmm.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800012697/1371914727881/2005_17_brottslighet_bland_personer_fodda_sverige_och_utlandet.pdf"]Let's read a report about migrants and crime.[/URL] [QUOTE] The proportion suspected of offences is higher however among those born outside Sweden or who have one or two foreign-born parents, by comparison with those born in Sweden to two Swedish born parents. It is two and a half times as likely for persons born abroad to be registered as crime suspects as it is for Swedish born persons with both parents born in Sweden. They thus have a ”relative risk” of 2.5. For those born in Sweden to two foreign-born parents, it is twice as common to be registered as it is among persons born in Sweden to two Swedish born parents. For this group, then, the ”relative risk” is 2. Among those with one Swedish born and one non-Swedish born parent, the risk is 1.4 times as great. Thus the pattern that emerged in the National Council’s previous report, namely that the risk of being registered for crime was lower among the Swedish born ”children of immigrants” than it was among those who had themselves migrated to Sweden, is also ap parent in this new study. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The proportion of persons suspected of offences is greater in groups from certain geographical areas than it is in those from others. This is the case for certain parts of Africa, such as North Africa, for example, and for Western Asia. Those coming from West European countries, South-East Asia and from the USA, Canada, Aust ralia and New Zeeland comprise the groups of those born outside Sweden who are registered as crime suspects least often. The factor that distinguishes the areas whose emigrants are suspected of offences in Sweden to a particularly large ex tent is that the living conditions in these areas are un like those in the western world.[/QUOTE] The report shows that migrants are much more likely to commit criminal acts than natives. We can safely assume that this holds true in the context of rape, especially due to the prevalence of rape in the Middle East and North Africa. So, you're concerned with defending refugees but didn't make the effort of educating yourself. Hmm. [QUOTE]*posts something objectively wrong* "disagreeable arguments" how about people stop lying first and then i'll stop thinking they're pushing an agenda [/QUOTE] So If I agree with you I'm not pushing an agenda but If I don't I'm lying because [B][U][I]GRRRR I HATE MUSLIMS[/I][/U][/B]
[QUOTE=Shovel Mech;49644571]So If I agree with you I'm not pushing an agenda but If I don't I'm lying because [B][U][I]GRRRR I HATE MUSLIMS[/I][/U][/B][/QUOTE] i was saying there's a difference between someone explicitly lying through their teeth and someone just disagreeing with me. one is OBjective and the other is what they call SUBjective. it's no use trying to mince words to make me look like some opinion-suppressing Nazi, it was an out and out lie and i proved it. my stance on immigration doesn't have shit to do with that.
How are you going to do that? Round them up at Gunpoint? Maybe Merkel should stop making sweeping remarks, thats what got all of us into this situation in the first place.
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