[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52143536][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election%2C_2017.png[/IMG]
It's almost like polling works. Macron at about 24%, Le Pen with 22%, Melenchon and Fillon both getting 19-20%. Considering how many candidates were in this round, it's amazing that they're so close to the final result. Why do people never toxx when they claim that polling can't catch all the embarrassed far right votes?[/QUOTE]
From what I can see, the only predicted area of contention will be the Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur for the second round, where both candidates are neck and neck. Everywhere else, Macron is polled to win with ~60%.
Well, seeing as I'm planning a trip;
Fuck it. :toxx: Le Pen wins, I'll take a picture of me giving the Eiffel Tower the finger in person. :toxx:
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Toxx Log: Perma if Le Pen wins. Escape clause: taking a picture of giving the finger to the Eiffel Tower in person" - Sgt Doom))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=pierre0158;52143508]rekt[/QUOTE]
'cause we got the best outcome, right?
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;52141198]Okay but seriously what the fuck even is anarcho-communism, I'm pretty sure an anarchist government wouldn't be compatible with a communist economy.[/QUOTE]
Afaik it's a moneyless society where people work together for mutual aid not profit but there are multiple versions and interpretations i.e.
[QUOTE]Rather than subject the individual to the community, social anarchists argue that communal ownership would provide the necessary framework to protect individual liberty in all aspects of life by abolishing the power of the property owner, in whatever form it takes. In addition, rather than abolish [B]all[/B] individual "property," communist anarchism acknowledges the importance of individual possessions and individual space. Thus we find Kropotkin arguing against forms of communism that [I]"desire to manage the community after the model of a family . . . [to live] all in the same house and . . . thus forced to continuously meet the same 'brethren and sisters' . . . [it is] a fundamental error to impose on all the 'great family' instead of trying, on the contrary, to guarantee as much freedom and home life to each individual."[/I] [[B]Small Communal Experiments and Why They Fail[/B], pp. 8-9] The aim of anarchist-communism is, to again quote Kropotkin, to place [I]"the product reaped or manufactured at the disposal of all, leaving to each the liberty to consume them as he pleases in his own home."[/I] [[B]The Place of Anarchism in the Evolution of Socialist Thought[/B], p. 7] This ensures individual expression of tastes and desires and so individuality -- both in consumption [B]and[/B] in production, as social anarchists are firm supporters of workers' self-management.[/QUOTE]
From here: [URL]http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secA3.html[/URL]
[editline]24th April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=pedrus24;52141303]Macron seems reasonable, so we have hope.[/QUOTE]
Shame "reasonable" means he is prepared to be "flexible" on workers rights and labour policy. Generally he seems very Blair-like... pretending to be on everyones side whilst worshipping "free markets".
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;52143825]Afaik it's a moneyless society where people work together for mutual aid not profit but there are multiple versions and interpretations i.e.
From here: [URL]http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secA3.html[/URL]
[editline]24th April 2017[/editline]
Shame "reasonable" means he is prepared to be "flexible" on workers rights and labour policy. Generally he seems very Blair-like... pretending to be on everyones side whilst worshipping "free markets".[/QUOTE]
Not all policies that give more "rights" to workers are good.
I mean the US could stick in a $30 minimum wage, which will make a lot of workers very happy. Until jobs are lost left and right. France is renowned for its very strong labour laws which is fantastic (seriously, us Americans really could do with some of that,) but if the evidence says that that's a big part of what's keeping the unemployment rate at 10%, they should be lessened.
And the stuff that macron has given definitive details on IIRC generally don't involve hitting worker's rights, it's stuff like reducing corporate income tax, which is a tax a lot of evidence suggests is more trouble than it's worth. At least in America it is.
[sp]as an aside, it is quite a pain that people don't really know much about anarchism nor even google it before saying anarcho-communism is a contradiction lol[/sp]
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52143878]Not all policies that give more "rights" to workers are good.
I mean the US could stick in a $30 minimum wage, which will make a lot of workers very happy. Until jobs are lost left and right. France is renowned for its very strong labour laws which is fantastic (seriously, us Americans really could do with some of that,) but if the evidence says that that's a big part of what's keeping the unemployment rate at 10%, they should be lessened.
And the stuff that macron has given definitive details on IIRC generally don't involve hitting worker's rights, it's stuff like reducing corporate income tax, which is a tax a lot of evidence suggests is more trouble than it's worth. At least in America it is.
[sp]as an aside, it is quite a pain that people don't really know much about anarchism nor even google it before saying anarcho-communism is a contradiction lol[/sp][/QUOTE]
Unemployment by itself isn't an accurate representation of social and work health though. Abolishing minimum wage would certainly drastically reduce unemployment, doesn't mean the general population would be better off.
Also, lower unemployment doesn't necessarily mean higher employment. Germany has low unemployment rates but they also have a pretty high part of their female population staying at home. Since they aren't looking for a job, they aren't unemployed.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52143897]Unemployment by itself isn't an accurate representation of social and work health though. Abolishing minimum wage would certainly drastically reduce unemployment, doesn't mean the general population would be better off.
Also, lower unemployment doesn't necessarily mean higher employment. Germany has low unemployment rates but they also have a pretty high part of their female population staying at home. Since they aren't looking for a job, they aren't unemployed.[/QUOTE]
But they have a reason, that's an entirely different statistic if we take into account people who are not looking for work*. France's ill, represented by the unemployment rate statistic, is that people want work, but can't find it.
That is true and important though, that unemployment rate isn't the be-all end-all. France shouldn't become 18th century London regarding work-health just because it'd bring the unemployment rate to 5%. It's something of a balancing act, figure out what can be done and whether it's likely to be worth the cost.
*if we were to bring up a failure of the unemployment rate itself. I'd say that the most concerning potential for it to underestimate unemployment is people getting disheartened and giving up the search for work. because if you don't try to get a job within a certain period of time, you're just excluded from the rate. Though IIRC people over-exaggerate the actual scale of this issue.
[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;52143593]Well, seeing as I'm planning a trip;
Fuck it. :toxx: Le Pen wins, I'll take a picture of me giving the Eiffel Tower the finger in person. :toxx:[/QUOTE]
You should film yourself buying a crappy souvenir off of one of those fucking annoying street merchants that keep pestering you around the eiffel tower
[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;52143593]Well, seeing as I'm planning a trip;
Fuck it. :toxx: Le Pen wins, I'll take a picture of me giving the Eiffel Tower the finger in person. :toxx:[/QUOTE]
When are you going to France? I might work out a way for me to be there to confirm you did indeed do it. : V
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144429]When are you going to France? I might work out a way for me to be there to confirm you did indeed do it. : V[/QUOTE]
I'd plan on him not having to go tbh lol
Final results are in: EM 24.01% MLP 21.30%
[QUOTE=_Axel;52144482]Final results are in: EM 24.01% MLP 21.30%[/QUOTE]
The fandom is still disturbingly strong
Alright, i have to say this because alot of people on this thread think that Macron is a "cool guy" :
- He worked for the Rothschild.
- He completely destroyed the labour law.
- He want to cut the local taxes by 80% (the tax that goes to the cities bank account, for the running costs, road maintenance etc... Hollande already reduced the endowment that the government give to the cities already btw)
- He wrote a law that completely destroyed the regulated professions like taxis, layers, driving schools etc...
- He sold the Energy Dep. of one of the greatest company of France, Alstom, to General Electric for nothing. (GE is going to lay off 765 people here in the upcomming months :goodjob:)
Basically, Macron is a carbon copy of Hollande but 10 times worst.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;52144643]- He worked for the Rothschild. [/QUOTE]
I can understand your point but um. How does this matter.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144660]I can understand your point but um. How does this matter.[/QUOTE]
Bankers are evil don't u know
I think that for the first time of my life, I won't vote. I'm tired to vote against someone and not for an idea. Fuck the country however you want, I won't be a part of this.
[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;52144702]I think that for the first time of my life, I won't vote. I'm tired to vote against someone and not for an idea. Fuck the country however you want, I won't be a part of this.[/QUOTE]
Try and get more people not to go to the polling station. Let's hit that 51% abstention bar.
[QUOTE=Scarabix;52144714]Try and get more people not to go to the polling station. Let's hit that 51% abstention bar.[/QUOTE]
What happens if that abstention bar is hit?
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144727]What happens if that abstention bar is hit?[/QUOTE]
Bants
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144727]What happens if that abstention bar is hit?[/QUOTE]
Nothing, except Le Pen probably winning.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144660]I can understand your point but um. How does this matter.[/QUOTE]
It can be ok to you and you can call me a communist, but France is not an "anglo-saxon" country ; we want everybody to be treated on an equal footing for taxes and healthcare, we want strong public services like La Poste or the SNCF (national railway company) for example. I bet you anything that Macron is going to continue the destruction of our public sevices and healthcare. Hell he even announced that he's going to rework ("remove") the solidarity tax that the rich people pay.
That's how a banker think. And i don't want that. So like NapyDaWise i'm not goint to vote.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;52144752][B]It can be ok to you and you can call me a communist, but France is not an "anglo-saxon" country[/B] ; we want everybody to be treated on an equal footing for taxes and healthcare, we want strong public services like La Poste or the SNCF (national railway company) for example. I bet you anything that Macron is going to continue the destruction of our public sevices and healthcare. Hell he even announced that he's going to rework ("remove") the solidarity tax that the rich people pay.[/QUOTE]
W-we're not either. Influenced by sure, but uh. We have the same ideas (except for railway, right now, at-least).
I still don't see how your points relate to ANYTHING about working for "a Rothschild", who are bankers I'm assuming. Your other point seem to explain that better?
Are you going to vote or are you going to absentee?
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;52144752]It can be ok to you and you can call me a communist, but France is not an "anglo-saxon" country ; we want everybody to be treated on an equal footing for taxes and healthcare, we want strong public services like La Poste or the SNCF (national railway company) for example. I bet you anything that Macron is going to continue the destruction of our public sevices and healthcare. Hell he even announced that he's going to rework ("remove") the solidarity tax that the rich people pay.[/QUOTE]
I understand that those things are worth taking into account when deciding whether to vote for Macron, but politically speaking he is closer to your ideals that Le Pen surely?
(Also, just to make this clear that it isn't a circle jerk, I'm personally routing for Le Pen)
[QUOTE=James xX;52144759]I understand that those things are worth taking into account when deciding whether to vote for Macron, but politically speaking he is closer to your ideals that Le Pen surely?
[B](Also, just to make this clear that it isn't a circle jerk, I'm personally routing for Le Pen)[/B][/QUOTE]
But why. Do you actually support her or her policies are are you doing this to """""break the circljerk""""??
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144760]But why. Do you actually support her or her policies are are you doing this to """""break the circljerk""""??[/QUOTE]
I support her for her opinions on the EU (despite voting remain).
[QUOTE=James xX;52144767]I support her for her opinions on the EU [B](despite voting remain).[/B][/QUOTE]
That doesn't make sense, she wants to leave the EU too. Completely.
Sounds like you'd have been supporting Mel if you were to actually vote?
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144758]W-we're not either. Influenced by sure, but uh. We have the same ideas (except for railway, right now, at-least).[/QUOTE]
Sorry then, that's why i used "It can", i don't know Ireland gov. work.
[QUOTE=James xX;52144759]I understand that those things are worth taking into account when deciding whether to vote for Macron, but politically speaking he is closer to your ideals that Le Pen surely?
(Also, just to make this clear that it isn't a circle jerk, I'm personally routing for Le Pen)[/QUOTE]
I hate Le Pen and Macron so i'm not going to vote.
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;52144752]It can be ok to you and you can call me a communist, but France is not an "anglo-saxon" country ; we want everybody to be treated on an equal footing for taxes and healthcare, we want strong public services like La Poste or the SNCF (national railway company) for example. [/QUOTE]
What's with this casual racism btw lol
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52144768]That doesn't make sense, she wants to leave the EU too. Completely.
Sounds like you'd have been supporting Mel if you were to actually vote?[/QUOTE]
Well, I should have probably gone into more detail: I voted remain optimistically, but after the vote actually went through, it made me realize that the EU can't work unles everyone is completely committed. As that's not possible, the EU ultimately can't become anything meaningful. If you take the 2 extremes: Devolve it into a purely trade based union, or evolve it into a fully fledged super state. It can't work unless it's one or the other, and right now it's in some limbo.
[QUOTE=James xX;52144992]It can't work unless it's one or the other, and right now it's in some limbo.[/QUOTE]
This here is a testable claim that we can approach scientifically.
Please provide your academic scientific sources which say that "the EU can only work as a trade union or a super state and nothing else"
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