• France Votes Today
    314 replies, posted
[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;52145594]I trust my country to actually revolt if Le Pen wins. [/QUOTE] this won't happen. you might kick up a bit of fuss but once you've let the fascists into power that's it, they have the true mandate for authority in your country and if you disagree you're a dumb leftist in addition to being a wrecker/saboteur
what trap did they fall in, their own?
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52145810]The bad thing is that no matter how mistaken some of the people's thoughts may have been on something, propaganda will turn that out to make these people feel right about what they said earlier and keep telling the same until someone from the top says not to :disappoint:[/QUOTE] Yeah, and the rest of us have facts, statistics and science on our side. Also wtf kind of projecting is this? "until someone from the top says to" you mean like the literal cult of personality Trump has going on in the US? I don't give a shit what "the top" says whoever that might be in my case. I base my opinions on not being a blind racist, and on researching the issues, reading about the subject and actually trying to wrap my mind around the topic.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52145632]Theres like 230 million citizens in the US who can vote. Trump got 62,979,636 votes. Thats 26% of [B]the voting population.[/B] or around 20% of [B]the entire population[/B] "The only way we can send a message is by not voting" Legit stop saying this stuff, the best way to send a message is to get as close to 100% turnout as possible and [B]AS BIG A LOSS[/B] for racists like LePen and Trump as possible.[/QUOTE] I voted against Le Pen in 2012, and I got Hollande. I refuse to endorse any candidate by voting against their opponent. Macron will win, but if I want the slightest of hope that he'll listen to anyone other than himself, I want him to win by being really close to MLP. I want him to know that he doesn't have the backing chirac or Hollande had. Since the FN became a big party, French elections have been finished on the first turn, the second turn means nothing now. I am over the presidential monarchy, the elite being immune to everything and all that jazz. Just to be fair tho, if I was American I would have voted against Trump. But it's not the same political climate here. The election are already over. Also yeah I poorly worded my first phrase, I'm also talking about the actual vote results. IIRC MLP is closer to 17 % of the voting population, so that's still prove my point. And to answer DoorCloser, running your campaign on inexistant fear is not something I can endorse. Yeah terrorists are good at shock value, they still kill way less than we do ourselves, or the indirect killing we do by not helping the poor, removing rights here and there, climate change, car crashes, etc. By electing people like that you play right into their hands. All about division, and that feeling of smug superiority.
Not voting for Marine Le Pen because of Russia is just too dumb to say. I mean still noone did move a good argument of why that's bad. I just feel sometimes some of the political views of there's people are coming from memes and tv shows, and i dont understand that. Seeing bald scepticism and blind propaganda here is so frustrating, especially when your thoughts about people there were kinda more positive before...
"EU is like a tyranny, UK and France must leave it!" while ignoring that they are both one of the 4 most powerful and influential who basically control the union thanks to their massive population and history as superpowers.
[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;52145828]I voted against Le Pen in 2012, and I got Hollande.[/QUOTE] You mean in the first round?
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52145835]Not voting for Marine Le Pen because of Russia is just too dumb to say. I mean still noone did move a good argument of why that's bad. I just feel sometimes some of the political views of there's people are coming from memes and tv shows, and i dont understand that. Seeing bald scepticism and blind propaganda here is so frustrating, especially when your thoughts about people there were kinda more positive before...[/QUOTE] No one here is posting propaganda memes and arguing about a tv show so what are you saying??
[QUOTE=_Axel;52145841]You mean in the first round?[/QUOTE] Shit I got mixed up :v: Voted against Sarkozy, of course. I might have mixed it with another election, we had so many theses past years :v: Thing is, I felt I was endorsing him, and got buyers remorse for something I didn't even wanted. And please, don't apply Brexit or Trump to this. Not all countries are the same, and i wouldn't do the same choice of I was American or British.
It feels kinda terrible when you understand you can't do much right now in that moment to save people from globalization disaster they're voting for. I dont know how to speak with these who read articles like "Why globalization is important". By saying "globalization is good" economists always miss real world problems. Globalization tends to move taxation away from corporations, and onto individual citizens, and with today's lack of jobs it will make people pissed in the nearest year of Macron's board.
What is the "globalization disaster"? What is the "EU trap"? You aren't explain these things, maybe I just don't know how to speak with these who read articles like "Why globalization is disastrous" and other propaganda, you know like blind scepticist, right fella?
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52145871]It feels kinda terrible when you understand you can't do much right now in that moment to save people from globalization disaster they're voting for. I dont know how to speak with these who read articles like "Why globalization is important". By saying "globalization is good" economists always miss real world problems. Globalization tends to move taxation away from corporations, and onto individual citizens, and with today's lack of jobs it will make people pissed in the nearest year of Macron's board.[/QUOTE] You can't wish globalisation away in the age of the Internet and fast travel across the globe. You either play with it cleverly or go full north Korea
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;52145895]What is the "globalization disaster"? What is the "EU trap"? You aren't explain these things, maybe I just don't know how to speak with these who read articles like "Why globalization is disastrous" and other propaganda, you know like blind scepticist, right fella?[/QUOTE] Globalization is causing France and other countries to lose their competitiveness against other countries with different social rights. Cheaper labour in eastern Europe's countries for example present an unfair advantage because people over there don't have the same social rights and protections we have here. There is no way French companies can stay competitive while having to pay for employee's fee. So that is one thing people want to change in the UE, they want to even the social rights among members of the union. Also those countries who have lost their competitiveness and are in deficit now have to basically deal with it on their own, without the help of the members who are in excess. So much for an union.
[QUOTE=pedrus24;52145992]Globalization is causing France and other countries to lose their competitiveness against other countries with different social rights. Cheaper labour in eastern Europe's countries for example present an unfair advantage because people over here don't have the same social rights and protections we have over here. There is no way French companies can stay competitive while having to pay for employee's fee. So that is one thing people want to change in the UE, they want to even the social rights among members of the union. Also those countries who have lost their competitiveness and are in deficit now have to basically deal with it on their own, without the help of the members who are in excess. So much for an union.[/QUOTE] And this is why I wish EU was more tightly held together, it'd be strong enough to deal with it if the nations were willing to commit. Unfortunately there is so much divide with really the western powers of europe doing what they can and the eastern european nations kind of struggling economically on their own.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52145816]A) Immigrants and migrants, illegal or legal, cause less crime than nationals [B]per capita[/B].[/QUOTE] In which countries is this true, because in Sweden it isn't. First and second generation immigrants are twice as likely to commit crimes than natives.
[QUOTE=_Axel;52141680]What's with people repeating this ad nauseum? [/QUOTE] Because this is the time of political upsets and populist shitlords getting places they have no business being? Of political blunders so hefty they'll reverberate through the history books for centuries to come? I mean, sure, you wanna bet on Le Pen not winning the runoff, go right on ahead and throw your money into the wind. I wouldn't take that bet. [QUOTE=NapyDaWise;52141732]Not the same election, nor the same country, not the same political climate. Le Pen won't do more than 30% in the second turn. Also the looser of your election is in office, we don't do that over there :v:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=MissZoey;52141765]Clinton won the popular vote and had an electoral college to contend with. With France, popular vote reigns supreme. If it was Clinton V. Trump in France, Clinton would have won, so the situations aren't really comparable. People need to stop doing this whole, "BUT BREXIT AND TRUMP" thing without first thinking about the situation they are trying to apply it to. [url]https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/le-pen-is-in-a-much-deeper-hole-than-trump-ever-was/[/url][/QUOTE] The similarity is people saying the populist shithead can't win. We've already got one case of one doing so anyway and this one managed to make it to round two. Don't count them out. That's...partly how we got one, in fact. Too many people went on the assumption that Clinton winning was a sure thing and didn't vote because of that.
[QUOTE=pedrus24;52145992]Globalization is causing France and other countries to lose their competitiveness against other countries with different social rights. Cheaper labour in eastern Europe's countries for example present an unfair advantage because people over there don't have the same social rights and protections we have here. There is no way French companies can stay competitive while having to pay for employee's fee. So that is one thing people want to change in the UE, they want to even the social rights among members of the union. Also those countries who have lost their competitiveness and are in deficit now have to basically deal with it on their own, without the help of the members who are in excess. So much for an union.[/QUOTE] This depends on the industry. Free trade does hurt certain industries, more specifically industries you lack the comparative advantage in. That doesn't mean everything packs up shop and moves to eastern europe tho lol, and it's also a case that the amount of jobs leaving to foreign countries is greatly over-exaggerated, with the jobs CREATED in your own country underestimated (supply chains a biggie.) It does mean a government has to be reactive and responsive to its citizens however. But in aggregate though, globalization and free trade tend to grant great benefits to all countries involved. We see this with NAFTA, the EU, etc.. And that's not even going into the social benefit of increasing world peace btw protectionism doesn't work either. It winds up either being ineffective, or just plain backfiring, japan, brazil and brazil's tech industries, actually hell, most of south america are great examples of this. You can also consider it a great way of fucking over the global poor. And as well it's a lot of fun to throw up tariffs until people put tariffs on you in return. In which case you've just thrown a tax on your own exports, nice.
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52145871]It feels kinda terrible when you understand you can't do much right now in that moment to save people from globalization disaster they're voting for. I dont know how to speak with these who read articles like "Why globalization is important". By saying "globalization is good" economists always miss real world problems. Globalization tends to move taxation away from corporations, and onto individual citizens, and with today's lack of jobs it will make people pissed in the nearest year of Macron's board.[/QUOTE] Real world problems like the countless ones your nationalist government has intentionally created?
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52145871]It feels kinda terrible when you understand you can't do much right now in that moment to save people from globalization disaster they're voting for. I dont know how to speak with these who read articles like "Why globalization is important". By saying "globalization is good" economists always miss real world problems. Globalization tends to move taxation away from corporations, and onto individual citizens, and with today's lack of jobs it will make people pissed in the nearest year of Macron's board.[/QUOTE] This here is an example of the Russian lack-of-education system at work I can only assume? Do you have the faintest inkling what "globalisation" actually is? What it actually entails? And why we're destined for it no matter what? Or is all of your knowledge on it sourced entirely RT and right-wing trash heaps? Thanks to the information age (y'know, the thing we're in now where the Internet has connected a vast majority of the world together), our species is becoming more globally connected. Our corporations, governments and societies are going to become more intertwined as a result of this. You literally can't stop this from happening, not without regressing us back into hyper-nationalist hellscapes that as a result see zero growth and stagnate. Rather than fight to keep jobs that are doomed anyway thanks to the irreversible nature of communication, why not actually try and get a government that understands that and instead tries to restructure the country to work around this by offering higher education, a safety net, and much more? Why the almighty fuck are people stupid enough to fall for right wing populist rhetoric along the lines of "NO WE WILL BRING JOB BACK 2 U, NO OUTSIDERS!!!", protectionism doesn't fucking work.
Lack of Russian education? Hahaha, you picked the wrong direction to talk about, son. But i won't be bothering you thinking, I'll be clear. Education in Russia is something way far from things you can twit us about. I'd recommend you to start using brains instead of dick and quit making general assumptions on one example. And if in that case, that's not even an example. You can't just change the subject with attempts to offend me. You may not answer this, it will be pointless as the excuses and contrarguments are not welcomed from you anymore. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("shitpost" - OvB))[/highlight]
[I]"You can't just change the subject with attempts to offend me"[/I] he says as he rants on about one sentence while ignoring the rest of the post.
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52146622]Lack of Russian education? Hahaha, you picked the wrong direction to talk about, son. But i won't be bothering you thinking, I'll be clear. Education in Russia is something way far from things you can twit us about. I'd recommend you to start using brains instead of dick and quit making general assumptions on one example. And if in that case, that's not even an example. You can't just change the subject with attempts to offend me. You may not answer this, it will be pointless as the excuses and contrarguments are not welcomed from you anymore.[/QUOTE] You actually make zero sense.
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52146622]Lack of Russian education? Hahaha, you picked the wrong direction to talk about, son. But i won't be bothering you thinking, I'll be clear. Education in Russia is something way far from things you can twit us about. I'd recommend you to start using brains instead of dick and quit making general assumptions on one example. And if in that case, that's not even an example. You can't just change the subject with attempts to offend me. You may not answer this, it will be pointless as the excuses and contrarguments are not welcomed from you anymore.[/QUOTE] If you're actually educated how about you show it and actually argue the points people have brought up instead of ranting?
DoorCloser = Web Brigade Intern?
[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;52147062]In which country? Because if you mean in general I can tell you that you're wrong.[/QUOTE] As for france "A 2009 study found "that the share of immigrants in the population has no significant impact on crime rates once immigrants’ economic circumstances are controlled for, while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed non-immigrants."" It's more in some countries and less in others, but the net effect is still "cause less crime" than "cause more crime" And in any case, even if it is more, that's a cultural issue you fix with integration not by closing the borders and discriminating.
[QUOTE=Pickwickian-;52147581]DoorCloser = Web Brigade Intern?[/QUOTE]Dunno if i'd go that far, but Vidrobot is an alt of his.
[QUOTE=DoorCloser;52146622]Lack of Russian education? Hahaha, you picked the wrong direction to talk about, son. But i won't be bothering you thinking, I'll be clear. Education in Russia is something way far from things you can twit us about. I'd recommend you to start using brains instead of dick and quit making general assumptions on one example. And if in that case, that's not even an example. You can't just change the subject with attempts to offend me. You may not answer this, it will be pointless as the excuses and contrarguments are not welcomed from you anymore.[/QUOTE] Mhm. Russian PISA results are always behind Estonia's, so if you wanna talk quality of education we got you beat. Which sorta explains why you're wrong lol.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52147608]Mhm. Russian PISA results are always behind Estonia's, so if you wanna talk quality of education we got you beat. Which sorta explains why you're wrong lol.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you fail to consider several factors which can easily explain that, notably: 1) population differences 2) education standards outside moscow and st petersburg i'm gonna take a leap and say that if you put their top unis against our top unis, its a close match I mean, if you compare Russia's score to Sweden, France, Austria, US, they're suddenly closely related retards compared to us Ests? Doubt it.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;52147599]As for france "A 2009 study found "that the share of immigrants in the population has no significant impact on crime rates once immigrants’ economic circumstances are controlled for, while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed non-immigrants."" It's more in some countries and less in others, but the net effect is still "cause less crime" than "cause more crime" And in any case, even if it is more, that's a cultural issue you fix with integration not by closing the borders and discriminating.[/QUOTE] Oh I've had it with the integration freaks. Time and time again this rethoric will be used and succeed in alienating french people of foreign culture, only for the republican fabric to be sundered at the first sign of a potential terrorist attack or any other culture shock. How long can we keep on subjecting marginalized populaces to our perverted perception of citizenship and blaming them for not conforming to our way of life when they were never given the tools to begin with? The failure to assimilate these people is that of the institution. The protections that are meant to serve religious minorities have failed time and time again. The laws of our so-called secular country have not moved an inch to accomodate extra-european cultures. Telling it the other way around is revisionism imo.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52147830]Not necessarily saying you're wrong, but you fail to consider several factors which can easily explain that, notably: 1) population differences 2) education standards outside moscow and st petersburg i'm gonna take a leap and say that if you put their top unis against our top unis, its a close match I mean, if you compare Russia's score to Sweden, France, Austria, US, they're suddenly closely related retards compared to us Ests? Doubt it.[/QUOTE] US isn't exactly a shining example in this case, considering their educational system is all kinds of fucked up. [editline]25th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Scarabix;52147833]Oh I've had it with the integration freaks. Time and time again this rethoric will be used and succeed in alienating french people of foreign culture, only for the republican fabric to be sundered at the first sign of a potential terrorist attack or any other culture shock. How long can we keep on subjecting marginalized populaces to our perverted perception of citizenship and blaming them for not conforming to our way of life when they were never given the tools to begin with? The failure to assimilate these people is that of the institution. The protections that are meant to serve religious minorities have failed time and time again. The laws of our so-called secular country have not moved an inch to accomodate extra-european cultures. Telling it the other way around is revisionism imo.[/QUOTE] And I'm not disagreeing with you? "fix it by integration" and "the current system is fucked up" aren't mutually exclusive statements.
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