Man pleads guilty to killing his unborn child after tricking his girlfriend into taking abortion pil
161 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Riutet;42147712]Seems reasonable to me. Easier to deal with one person than it is to deal with an entire Government backed by a large police force.[/QUOTE]
"Easier to murder one person rather than dealing with the government and police"
"murder"
"not dealing with the police"
What are you even talking about.
[QUOTE=Last or First;42147869]"Easier to murder one person rather than dealing with the government and police"
"murder"
"not dealing with the police"
What are you even talking about.[/QUOTE]
They need to prove you are guilty first, there is a huge amount of crime that is never resolved simply because the police are underfunded and overstretched and can only really pursue crime where they believe they can get a conviction with the evidence they currently have. At least this is the case in the UK, I can not speak for other countries.
I thought the entire pro choice argument was that the fetus wasn't an individual human life and was only part of the mother? If so then it would be assault at best, but nothing even close to murder.
[QUOTE=Aidan_088;42147848]It's a pretty a fucked up thing to do to someone.[/QUOTE]
So is fucking murdering them!
Oh and forcing someone with a low paying job to [I]raise[/I] a child for eighteen years would also ruin their life
[editline]10th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Riutet;42147862]I'm actually pretty good with kids[/QUOTE]
Until they have a doctors appointment on the day you wanted to go to the movies, in which case you'll probably murder them
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42147939]Oh and forcing someone with a low paying job to [I]raise[/I] a child for eighteen years would also ruin their life[/QUOTE]
Except for the part where they can choose just to not have the child. If they choose to keep the child while working a low paying job and this ruins their life, they consent to it by going through with it.
[QUOTE=Riutet;42147953]Except for the part where they can choose just to not have the child. If they choose to keep the child while working a low paying job and this ruins their life, they consent to it by going through with it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but none of that matter when they're lying in an unmarked grave with their throat cut open, another glaring social issue solved forever by Riutet
woman doesn't need the permission of a man to do something with her own body. but yeah it'd be a pretty dick move to not consult your significant other before doing something like that (this is referring to the OP's point, obviously drugging someone else to give them an abortion is beyond a dick move).
[editline]11th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=sgman91;42147933]I thought the entire pro choice argument was that the fetus wasn't an individual human life and was only part of the mother? If so then it would be assault at best, but nothing even close to murder.[/QUOTE]
well, i guess it depends on how far along the pregnancy was. i agree though it shouldn't be considered murder
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42147939]Until they have a doctors appointment on the day you wanted to go to the movies, in which case you'll probably murder them[/QUOTE]
If I have chosen to be a carer of a child, then I have chosen the responsibilities that come along with that. When I am looking after my nephew, he comes first, always; the same would be true of my own child, no exceptions.
Do not mistake my willingness to defend my liberty with a psychotic fervor, with just being psychotic in general.
[QUOTE=Riutet;42147914]They need to prove you are guilty first, there is a huge amount of crime that is never resolved simply because the police are underfunded and overstretched and can only really pursue crime where they believe they can get a conviction with the evidence they currently have. At least this is the case in the UK, I can not speak for other countries.[/QUOTE]
you're a freak what the hell you'd murder someone rather than have to pay child support? someone should kill you you sociopath
[QUOTE=Riutet;42147984]Do not mistake my willingness to defend my liberty with a psychotic fervor, with just being psychotic in general.[/QUOTE]
I literally don't care how you want to whitewash this, or whether you're being serious or not, you're saying that murder is a reasonable alternative to child support, there is nothing after that that needs to be said
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42147995]I literally don't care how you want to whitewash this, or whether you're being serious or not, you're saying that murder is a reasonable alternative to child support, there is nothing after that that needs to be said[/QUOTE]
don't mistake my willingness to murder rather than pay child support as mental derangement!
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42147970]well, i guess it depends on how far along the pregnancy was. i agree though it shouldn't be considered murder[/QUOTE]
No, it shouldn't matter at all. As of now federal law allows all abortions, including partial-birth. This means the fetus/baby has no rights as a human being until they are completely out of the woman, living by their own power.
I, personally, think this is a disgusting and immoral societal belief, but it is what it is. All I'm asking is for people to be consistent.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42147994]you're a freak what the hell you'd murder someone rather than have to pay child support? someone should kill you you sociopath[/QUOTE]
Their right to try, my right to stop them.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42148021]No, it shouldn't matter at all. As of now federal law allows all abortions, including partial-birth. This means the fetus/baby has no rights as a human being until they are completely out of the woman, living by their own power.
I, personally, think this is a disgusting and immoral societal belief, but it is what it is. All I'm asking is for people to be consistent.[/QUOTE]
i thought there was a point where you're not allowed to abort anymore? also, shut up... it's more disgusting to think you or the state should have a say in what a woman does with her body and that's that. if you don't like abortions don't have one (oh wait you're not a woman so you can't have one anyway)
[QUOTE=Aidan_088;42147039]
I know it's not quite the same but if this was the other way round, the woman had aborted without the permission of the husband, she would have faced no charges.[/QUOTE]
The woman will always have somewhat more rights over what happens to the unborn child and even with my strong desire for equality I think this is a perfectly acceptable 'imbalance'
I mean the woman is the one carrying a baby around inside of her. She's got this thing wired straight in, everything she does either nurturing it or not, feeling every movement, being swayed by every unfamiliar hormonal imbalance that pops up. She's the one who's going to be physically and hormonally effected (and likely more psychologically effected) by the loss or retention of the baby.
It's not entirely right for a woman to abort her partner's baby without his agreement but being forced by her partner to abort the baby, especially in such a sneaky and traumatic way, is infinitely more wrong.
[QUOTE=Riutet;42148029]Their right to try, my right to stop them.[/QUOTE]
wow you're well hard dude, when you were talking about murdering a pregnant lady so you don't have to pay child support, that's when i thought maybe you were a tough guy, but now i'm definitely sure you're hard
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42147995]I literally don't care how you want to whitewash this, or whether you're being serious or not, you're saying that murder is a reasonable alternative to child support, there is nothing after that that needs to be said[/QUOTE]
Well, I live a pretty ascetic life and if I was forced to pay child support it would just mean I would have less savings, so it's not about money. There's that.
[editline]11th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42148050]wow you're well hard dude, when you were talking about murdering a pregnant lady so you don't have to pay child support, that's when i thought maybe you were a tough guy, but now i'm definitely sure you're hard[/QUOTE]
I already pointed out how by engaging in this discussion I am being an internet tough guy, you need better material m80.
[QUOTE=Riutet;42148029]Their right to try, my right to stop them.[/QUOTE]
Wat.
okay my better material: you're a sociopath and i hope when you nerd rage and try to kill some pregnant lady she easily over powers you and you're thrown in prison for a long time.
[QUOTE=Aidan_088;42147848]I think murder is excessive but forcing someone with a low paying job to pay child support for 18 years would effectively ruin a person's life. It's a pretty a fucked up thing to do to someone.[/QUOTE]If he didn't want to have a child he shouldn't have done the deed.
Also, giving the child up for adoption is always an option, just saying.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42148039]it's more disgusting to think you or the state should have a say in what a woman does with her body and that's that. if you don't like abortions don't have one (oh wait you're not a woman so you can't have one anyway)[/QUOTE]
I hope you know how ridiculous that argument is. Here, let me give you a comparable one: Hey, you have no say whether I kill my mentally delayed child because you don't have one! So shut up! If you don't like it you don't have to kill yours!
The more we know about the viability of the fetus, it's pain tolerances, etc. the more disgusting many abortions become. Even most European countries don't allow them after 20 weeks. Being dependent on another doesn't take away your right to live.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42148083]I hope you know how ridiculous that argument is. Here, let me give you a comparable one: Hey, you have no say whether I kill my mentally delayed child because you don't have one! So shut up! If you don't like it you don't have to kill yours!
The more we know about the viability of the fetus, it's pain tolerances, etc. the more disgusting many abortions become. Even most European countries don't allow them after 20 weeks.[/QUOTE]
that's not a comparable argument at all though? a mentally delayed(?) child is a born child, it's a separate entity and is thus protected, a fetus is in a parasitic relationship with the mother, it's a part of her and thus SHE is protected, not it. and hey i'm all in favour of stopping abortions after a certain time but i don't really know enough about that kind of stuff to know when that time should be.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42148107]that's not a comparable argument at all though? a mentally delayed(?) child is a born child, it's a separate entity and is thus protected, a fetus is in a parasitic relationship with the mother, it's a part of her and thus SHE is protected, not it. and hey i'm all in favour of stopping abortions after a certain time but i don't really know enough about that kind of stuff to know when that time should be.[/QUOTE]
The mentally delayed child is just as dependent on guardians as the one in the mother. Actually, all babies are in parasitic relationships with their parents. They provide nothing while taking resources to keep alive.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42148073]okay my better material: you're a sociopath and i hope when you nerd rage and try to kill some pregnant lady she easily over powers you and you're thrown in prison for a long time.[/QUOTE]
I am 220lbs and do a mixed strongman/powerlifting routine. If a pregnant woman could overpower me, she'd be 10/10 wife material and there wouldn't be an issue.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42148116]The mentally delayed child is just as dependent on guardians as the one in the mother.[/QUOTE]
no it's not
[editline]11th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Riutet;42148133]I am 220lbs and do a mixed strongman/powerlifting routine. If a pregnant woman could overpower me, she'd be 10/10 wife material and there wouldn't be an issue.[/QUOTE]
no you're not
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42148140]no it's not[/QUOTE]
Can you explain why not? It will 100% die if not cared for in every way.
Know that my belief is completely based on secular reasoning, not in some religious belief.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42148156]Can you explain why not? It will 100% die if not cared for in every way.[/QUOTE]
well one big difference is that a mentally 'delayed' child doesn't require a host
I'm curious as to what he would have been charged with if he didn't plead out. I know the killing of a unborn child is a huge gray area because of murder's definition being killing of a human by another human. The argument is a fetus isn't a human, yet.
As for the other part I wonder where the father's rights on abortion stand. I could see not wanting my genes to be potentially spread as a huge factor and sort of a legitimate one too.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42148140]no you're not[/QUOTE]
If the sheer amount of milk and chicken I have consumed to get to this point could speak, it would say, "Yes I am.".
[QUOTE=JuiceHead3311;42148175]I'm curious as to what he would have been charged with if he didn't plead out. I know the killing of a unborn child is a huge gray area because of murder's definition being killing of a human by another human. The argument is a fetus isn't a human, yet.
As for the other part I wonder where the father's rights on abortion stand. I could see not wanting my genes to be potentially spread as a huge factor and sort of a legitimate one too.[/QUOTE]
not wanting your genes to be spread stops being a legitimate factor when you start having sex
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