German incest couple (who have 4 children together) lose European court case
59 replies, posted
They're only brother and sister by blood. They didn't grow up together and didn't meet until adulthood (or near it). I don't think it's fair to deny them their relationship under these circumstances. :/
I think incest is fine as long as you don't make babies. Otherwise you get crazyass kings
[img]http://i.imgur.com/3jIXG.gif[/img]
[editline]14th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;35563745]Gay couples can't have children anyway, but children adopted by gay parents could be subject to ridicule by their peers.[/QUOTE]
That's not a good reason to not let them adopt.
2001 to 2005 and 4 children, they did not waste any time did they.
Yeah, thats great, put the disabled kids parents into jail instead of having him take care of the kids. Clearly having their parents imprisoned will do wonders for the kids who already have problems.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;35563054]The man shouldnt be punished for having the relationship, it's fine if they love eachother. But bringing these deformed children into the world should be considered a crime. Not worthy of jail of course, but a crime nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
Yeah lets jail disabled people who bring disabled kids into the world too.
I may not agree with incest myself or find it tasteful but I see this case as a disappointing confirmation of the continued reduction of personal liberty.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;35564669]That's not a good reason to not let them adopt.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that children will find something even worse to make fun of 'em for anyways.
Children are just awful like that.
Uh.
I'm pretty sure the rate of deformities in an Incest Relationship are actually pretty low. Not to mention by all the logic you people are going by, if you willingly have a child and it could have a mental disability because of a disease you have then you're committing a crime.
nice one FP.
I don't have a problem with their relationship, and the reason why the laws are like they are is because this is not a normal case. You can't make a law saying "it's okay for siblings to have sex if they haven't spent that much time together", as the risk of someone abusing the law is pretty high. I personally think that siblings should be able to have relationships with each other, but not have children - the laws would be ambigorous though, and as such it could pose a problem.
[editline]14th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;35564959]Uh.
I'm pretty sure the rate of deformities in an Incest Relationship are actually pretty low. Not to mention by all the logic you people are going by, if you willingly have a child and it could have a mental disability because of a disease you have then you're committing a crime.
nice one FP.[/QUOTE]
The handicap rate is much higher though, I don't remember how much, but about 10 times the risk when it's first-cousins. I have no idea about siblings though. Take a look at some incest cases, they generally have more handicapped children.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;35562819]I don't see a problem with incestuous relationships.
food for thought: the same people who originally condemned it are the same people who originally condemned gay and interracial relationships.[/QUOTE]
The difference being that gay and interracial relationships don't lead to birth defects and all joys of the kind.
Incestuous sex (not one with a stepsister/brother, one with an actual genetically related person) has been proven to lead to several birth defects, deformities and other disabilities. The point of reproducing with people that are not members of your family is that the two partners are genetically different enough to erase all possible hereditary conditions because the egg that is created after reproduction will most likely use the "good" traits from each partners, very much like how genetics work when it comes to your kid having blue or brown eyes (I'm not good at explaining this am I ?).
If you reproduce with another member of your family all the hereditary DNA traits that can lead to a birth defect will be twice as present when the egg starts mixing both of the partners DNA, very likely leading to a birth disease.
I'm very bad at explaining all this but my point is it's not just some random pseudo-scientific babble at work here, it's actual proven well thought science.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;35565362]The difference being that gay and interracial relationships don't lead to birth defects and all joys of the kind.
Incestuous sex (not one with a stepsister/brother, one with an actual genetically related person) has been proven to lead to several birth defects, deformities and other disabilities. The point of reproducing with people that are not members of your family is that the two partners are genetically different enough to erase all possible hereditary conditions because the egg that is created after reproduction will most likely use the "good" traits from each partners, very much like how genetics work when it comes to your kid having blue or brown eyes (I'm not good at explaining this am I ?).
If you reproduce with another member of your family all the hereditary DNA traits that can lead to a birth defect will be twice as present when the egg starts mixing both of the partners DNA, very likely leading to a birth disease.
I'm very bad at explaining all this but my point is it's not just some random pseudo-scientific babble at work here, it's actual proven well thought science.[/QUOTE]
I think he's talking about the "morale" part of incest. I personally don't think I have the right to say what's right or wrong - I might find sex with animals disgusting, but if someone likes it, and the animals don't get hurt, I have no problem with it. Whatever you might think of, as ling as no one is hurt, people can do whatever they like.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;35565530]I think he's talking about the "morale" part of incest. I personally don't think I have the right to say what's right or wrong - I might find sex with animals disgusting, but if someone likes it, and the animals don't get hurt, I have no problem with it. Whatever you might think of, as ling as no one is hurt, people can do whatever they like.[/QUOTE]
You can generally consider something wrong if it's going to harm more people on the short or long run than it's going to do good.
Incest can lead to the birth of physically and mentally challenged people who will suffer all their life because two other persons refused to understand that having an incestuous relationship leads to a lot of physical, practical problems. Thus it's wrong.
It's like drinking or smoking when you're pregnant, it's considered an idiotic thing to do because it drastically increases the chances of fucking up your kid before it's even born.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;35565604]You can generally consider something wrong if it's going to harm more people on the short or long run than it's going to do good.
Incest can lead to the birth of physically and mentally challenged people who will suffer all their life because two other persons refused to understand that having an incestuous relationship leads to a lot of physical, practical problems. Thus it's wrong.
It's like drinking or smoking when you're pregnant, it's considered an idiotic thing to do because it drastically increases the chances of fucking up your kid before it's even born.[/QUOTE]
Well, can't argue with science.
Unless the family had predisposition or known genetic problems, there isn't anything really wrong with it. Disabilities in incest-born children are relatively low.
[quote]The chances of genetic defects from a single instance of inbreeding in the genetic line, even from brother and sister, is only increased from 2% (that of the general population) to 4% (between a 25% relationship- that is, mother/father/brother/sister). The amount isn't statistically significant and it's only over extended inbred relationships that there's any real danger of genetic defects. The only real concern is that there's a 50% chance that the child may inherit recessive genes from both parents, in a parent-child relationships, which can be responsible for susceptibility of health problems. The chances are lower for a sibling relationship, as they would already have around 50% of their genes identical as is. Unless they're twins, then you're talking up to 75%.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;35565604]You can generally consider something wrong if it's going to harm more people on the short or long run than it's going to do good.
Incest can lead to the birth of physically and mentally challenged people who will suffer all their life because two other persons refused to understand that having an incestuous relationship leads to a lot of physical, practical problems. Thus it's wrong.
It's like drinking or smoking when you're pregnant, it's considered an idiotic thing to do because it drastically increases the chances of fucking up your kid before it's even born.[/QUOTE]
If you read my earlier post, I already adressed that. Id on't think they should have kids (as that would, as I made a point of before, hurt somebody), but I have no trouble with them having sex.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];35565863']50% chance that the child may inherit recessive genes from both parents, in a parent-child relationships, which can be responsible for susceptibility of health problems[/QUOTE]
There's the concern I had. They basically likely end up with a kid that reflects the "bad" traits of both parents.
[QUOTE=Nitro836;35565924]There's the concern I had. They basically likely end up with a kid that reflects the "bad" traits of both parents.[/QUOTE]
Yea, this is the major concern. 50% at a parent-child relationship, not as high for a sibling relationship and rather low for a first-cousin relationship. This is a major concern. But if we can tell anything from, say, dog pure-breeding, it's that while some minor issues will almost definitely occur with the first generation of sibling in-breeding, but major issues aren't likely until the second or third generation, and we're talking as far down as 5 or 6 generations before any major appears in cousin in-breeding.
I don't see an issue with incestuous sex, as long as it's consenting, and that proper measures are taken to make sure their either both parents are completely free from genetic disabilities that would show in a child (unlikely), or that they don't have children at all. I think that incestuous relationships are fine, if you take the responsibilities necessary.
if ur going to do incest atleast record it
[QUOTE=areyoublack;35566352]if ur going to do incest atleast record it[/QUOTE]
Most incest couples will require bleaching after seeing them fuck.
I don't think I have the right to judge.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;35562819]food for thought: the same people who originally condemned it are the same people who originally condemned gay and interracial relationships.[/QUOTE]
Even if that's true, and I'm not totally clued up on the reliability of that particular anecdote, but a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because they might've had a few bad ideas doesn't mean that ALL of their ideas were wrong, and trying to justify incestuous relationships by comparing them to gay and interracial relationships isn't going to make people think that incest is correct, but that gay and interracial relationships are like incest. Which is wrong. But basically you're not helping your cause by saying that.
Oh back in the middle ages are we, you sick German "family"-man.
I don't see a problem, this is just like the whole gay thing.
All anyone is doing is telling people who they can have sex and be with.
This couple and their incest children can't and will never affect my life whatsoever.
[QUOTE=clc666;35568462]I don't see a problem, this is just like the whole gay thing.
All anyone is doing is telling people who they can have sex and be with.
This couple and their incest children can't and will never affect my life whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
Just like racism doesn't affect the white man, just like homosexual lynching doesn't affect the straight man.
I'd be okay with this if there were no babbies involved.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35568984]Just like racism doesn't affect the white man, just like homosexual lynching doesn't affect the straight man.[/QUOTE]
Just like it's a couple across the world that couldn't possibly do anything.
[QUOTE=clc666;35569246]Just like it's a couple across the world that couldn't possibly do anything.[/QUOTE]
The retardation of their children. If effects them. That's the issue.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;35562819]I don't see a problem with incestuous relationships.
food for thought: the same people who originally condemned it are the same people who originally condemned gay and interracial relationships.[/QUOTE]
I personally don't think incest is a problem.
It's a problem when they start having kids. It's sick that they would do something like that when they knew how likely it was that the child would be disabled.
Gotta keep the bloodline pure.
[QUOTE=booster;35570076]Gotta keep the bloodline pure.[/QUOTE]
Soon miniature Charles II's of Spain will be running amok all over the place.
[img]http://scielo.isciii.es/img/revistas/urol/v62n3/en_02-3.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=areyoublack;35566352]if ur going to do incest atleast record it[/QUOTE]
Sex in real life isn't like porn
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