• 74% of Pakistanis consider the United States to be an enemy
    105 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;36579098]please name your sources where the us is funding cartels and arming them[/QUOTE] The elephant in the room is that the cartels are using US made weapons and spending US dollars. [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/08/mexico-drug-wars-us-guns[/url]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36579119]The elephant in the room is that the cartels are using US made weapons and spending US dollars. [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/08/mexico-drug-wars-us-guns[/url][/QUOTE] half the world uses US weapons...we are the largest arms exporter in the world. once a gun is bought you can't stop it from going to a cartel; they're sold too often and with no paperwork. the us doesn't supply the cartel arms directly; even the fast and the furious was done by smugglers; the US simply tracked the arms [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_exporters[/url] so one shit thoughts debunked now about the money?
The problem that you're missing, and as I said above is the 'elephant in the room'. Is that the US (as a substantive noun, before you get pissy) is the second business partner in the two man operation. Guns and money goes one way, drugs go the other. Yet claim no responsibility in destabilising the region. but we're leaving the point on why I said this originally.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36579442]The problem that you're missing, and as I said above is the 'elephant in the room'. Is that the US (as a substantive noun, before you get pissy) is the second business partner in the two man operation. Guns and money goes one way, drugs go the other. Yet claim no responsibility in destabilising the region. but we're leaving the point on why I said this originally.[/QUOTE] why would the government claim responsibility? its not paying smugglers or arming cartels the only people who can be blamed are those supplying the cartel by buying illegal drugs but that's a whole different issue unless im reading what you're saying wrong which is possible: Euro finals ;)
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36579442]The problem that you're missing, and as I said above is the 'elephant in the room'. Is that the US (as a substantive noun, before you get pissy) is the second business partner in the two man operation. Guns and money goes one way, drugs go the other. Yet claim no responsibility in destabilising the region. but we're leaving the point on why I said this originally.[/QUOTE] Did you know that Mexico sends the confiscated gun's info to the US to verify that they originated here? That means the confiscated guns sent to the ATF for confirmation were already expected to be US weapons. Mexico has confiscated hundreds of thousands of weapons over the past decade. Only 68,000 are confirmed to be of U.S. origin. So when you see a headline like 68% OF CARTELS GUNS FROM U.S. keep this in mind, its 68% of the guns Mexico confiscates and then sends to us, not 68% in total confiscated guns.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36579708]Did you know that Mexico sends the confiscated gun's info to the US to verify that they originated here? That means the confiscated guns sent to the ATF for confirmation were already expected to be US weapons. Mexico has confiscated hundreds of thousands of weapons over the past decade. Only 68,000 are confirmed to be of U.S. origin. So when you see a headline like 68% OF CARTELS GUNS FROM U.S. keep this in mind, its 68% of the guns Mexico confiscates and then sends to us, not 68% in total confiscated guns.[/QUOTE] That's okay then.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36579442]The problem that you're missing, and as I said above is the 'elephant in the room'. Is that the US (as a substantive noun, before you get pissy) is the second business partner in the two man operation. Guns and money goes one way, drugs go the other. Yet claim no responsibility in destabilising the region. but we're leaving the point on why I said this originally.[/QUOTE] So your saying true responsibility is upon US drug users. That's essentially what every US politician is saying.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36579740]So your saying true responsibility is upon US drug users. That's essentially what every US politician is saying.[/QUOTE] What no. I'm talking about the 'War on Drugs'. I.e US policy makers.
The feeling is mutual.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36579751]What no. I'm talking about the 'War on Drugs'. I.e US policy makers.[/QUOTE] Wait but you said guns and money go one way (from the US to Mexico right?) and drugs go another way (to the US). So the people who purchase drugs from Mexico (US drug users) are in fact responsible for destabilizing the region, since according to you, they play a pivotal role in the Cartels network. The Cartels need cash, US drug users pay for the Cartels guns which the Cartels buy legitimately here, then illegally smuggle to Mexico. You didn't mention policy makers anywhere.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36579920]You didn't mention policy makers anywhere.[/QUOTE] I don't mention (US drug users) anywhere either.
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;36579098]please name your sources where the us is funding cartels and arming them[/QUOTE] We may not have funded and armed them directly but we did give them special forces training in Georgia.
[quote] So the people who purchase drugs from Mexico (US drug users) are in fact responsible for destabilizing the region, since according to you, they play a pivotal role in the Cartels network.[/quote] If we are going to follow this logic we might as well blame the whole world for encouraging a market economy whichs rewards people for selling commodities, like drugs. It doesn't help the world's states also ban that commodity. The blame is sooner theirs IMO.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;36580193]We may not have funded and armed them directly but we did give them special forces training in Georgia.[/QUOTE] [img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/citation_stickers_300x300.png[/Img]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36580027]I don't mention (US drug users) anywhere either.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Guns and money goes one way, drugs go the other.[/QUOTE] Who buys those drugs? US drug users. What I'm trying to say is that US citizens are responsible for funding cartels. The US government would never take responsibility for destabilizing the region.
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36580283]Who buys those drugs? US drug users. What I'm trying to say is that US citizens are responsible for funding cartels. The US government would never take responsibility for destabilizing the region.[/QUOTE] What crack have you been smoking if you think the average drug user actually buys directly from mexican cartels. You're deliberately missing out the entire drug trade that funds all these killings. And the US government have helped created the situation where these drug cartels can flourish. Anyone with a basic understanding on the War of Drugs understands this point, and how it is a complete abject failure. Fuck me. This is the last time I ever attempt to pose an abstract thought exercise to facepunch. I mean, what the fuck happened to pakistan?
[QUOTE=Conscript;36580253]It doesn't help the world's states also bans that commodity.[/QUOTE] You mean drugs like heroin and cocaine? Those addictive and substantially harmful commodities? The ones that spur violence and crime around the world? [QUOTE=Conscript;36580253]If we are going to follow this logic we might as well blame the whole world for encouraging a market economy whichs rewards people for selling commodities, like drugs.[/QUOTE] No. I was saying there is a system, US citizens are participating in that system. They are responsible as individuals, the US gov't would never claim or admit responsibility. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=NoDachi;36580358]What crack have you been smoking if you think the average drug user actually buys directly from mexican cartels.[/QUOTE] Fuck that. I never said that. The money ultimately makes its way to the Cartels. [QUOTE=NoDachi;36580358]You're deliberately missing out the entire drug trade that funds all these killings.[B] And the US government have helped created the situation where these drug cartels can flourish. [/B]Anyone with a basic understanding on the War of Drugs understands this point, and how it is a complete abject failure. [/QUOTE] My point is that this is bullshit. [QUOTE=NoDachi;36580358]Fuck me. This is the last time I ever attempt to pose an abstract thought exercise to facepunch. I mean, what the fuck happened to pakistan?[/QUOTE] Don't play that game, man, you brought this up.
I'm sure most of the western world consider Pakistan and every other stan to be an enemy.
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;36580260][img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/citation_stickers_300x300.png[/Img][/QUOTE] It's well known that we trained Mexican SF in counter terrorism post 9/11. The cartels offered much higher wages then the government could and a large group of them defected. America does this all the time(Mujaheddin, Contras, Zetas) it shouldn't be a surprise.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;36580658]It's well known that we trained Mexican SF in counter terrorism post 9/11. The cartels offered much higher wages then the government could and a large group of them defected. America does this all the time(Mujaheddin, Contras, Zetas) it shouldn't be a surprise.[/QUOTE] It's well known Paris hilton has a 14 inch cock It's fun saying things with no proof!
[QUOTE=Bobie;36576262]to make up for the fact that the US keeps drone striking the shit out of the middle east taking away foreign aid from pakistan would be like pissing all over the dead bodies of the civilians the US has killed[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the US already pisses on bodies of those civilians by just calling them collateral damage. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=galenmarek;36577173]Because this worked SO well the last several times America has tried this. Some small things called World War 1 and World War 2 are some results this has gotten whenever America turns all isolationist on everyone.[/QUOTE] Yeah and those were pretty much the last times US interventionism worked to the benefit of the world. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=galenmarek;36577543]For nothing? Afghans are generally happy Americans are there. You might be thinking of Iraq. A lot of schools, hospitals, and other things have been created in the last ten years. The ISAF have not spent this entire decade sitting on their thumbs.[/QUOTE] Except the ones with missing family members because of drone attacks, and there are a lot of them. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=TBFundy;36578370]we're just the ones willing to take the heat for not letting unstable nations become nuclear threats I'd rather a bunch of uninformed idiots hate us rather than ANY country in the middle east have nuclear arms[/QUOTE] The irony is that you're the uninformed idiot. Israel has nuclear weapons and when Iran proposed that the Middle-East become a nuclear free zone, the proposal was shot down by the US and the Middle-East, oh and Saudi Arabia plans on building nuclear weapons.
Well, and here I thought Facepunch didn't like Pakistan, now everyone's defending them.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;36580851]Well, and here I thought Facepunch didn't like Pakistan, now everyone's defending them.[/QUOTE] You should know by now that Facepunch will jump to any opportunity to go "lol 'murica".
ITT Massive sweeping amazingly ignorant generalizations galore.
holy shit this thread classic show of facepunch
[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;36580610]I'm sure most of the western world consider Pakistan and every other stan to be an enemy.[/QUOTE] hnnnnghh
[QUOTE=-nesto-;36580193]We may not have funded and armed them directly but we did give them special forces training in Georgia.[/QUOTE] That is a pretty severely bastardized version of the truth. Much of the problem with the Mexican cartels is that many of them are former Mexican military. Since we have relatively close ties with Mexico, it isn't uncommon at all for us to cross train with their special forces. It is the same with any other major ally. So no, we didn't train cartel members, we trained Mexican special operations who later defected to the cartels.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36576301]What % of Americans view Pakistan as an enemy?[/QUOTE] 99% Due to propaganda.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36576700]Because a dollar amount makes up for a family member's death. [editline]1st July 2012[/editline] That doesn't really make it any better.[/QUOTE] I was being a smartass.
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