• 74% of Pakistanis consider the United States to be an enemy
    105 replies, posted
[QUOTE=KingdomBanned;36583346]99% Due to propaganda.[/QUOTE] When the same terrorist America has been hunting for 10 years is found right next to a major Pakistani government complex it is not going to help relations.
[QUOTE=Bobie;36576398]after killing hundreds of thousands of civilians it would make sense[/QUOTE] Uh, we havn't killed that many.
[QUOTE=GunFox;36583180]That is a pretty severely bastardized version of the truth. Much of the problem with the Mexican cartels is that many of them are former Mexican military. Since we have relatively close ties with Mexico, it isn't uncommon at all for us to cross train with their special forces. It is the same with any other major ally. So no, we didn't train cartel members, we trained Mexican special operations who later defected to the cartels.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean we directly trained them. And I'm well aware of the Mexican SF, mainly GAFE, defecting for much higher wages offered by the cartels.
The entirety of middle eastern government is a problem to the rest of the world and the civilian's opinion on how butthurt they are about the U.S doesn't matter because their government is in control of the weapons. There's no arguing about it.
[QUOTE=ycap5;36584308]The entirety of middle eastern government is a problem to the rest of the world and the civilian's opinion on how butthurt they are about the U.S doesn't matter because their government is in control of the weapons. There's no arguing about it.[/QUOTE] So it's the Pakistani government's fault that the US does drone attacks in their country? And you can't say yes because Pakistan gave us permission - because I'm sure it's pretty obvious if they said no, we would say no to more money we pour into them.
[QUOTE=PrusseluskenV2;36575982]this attitude is one of the reasons a lot of the world hates the US, just saying[/QUOTE] A lot of the world hates the USA for not caring, but we are the one nation that gives the most foreign aid? Yeah what?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36584892]So it's the Pakistani government's fault that the US does drone attacks in their country? And you can't say yes because Pakistan gave us permission - because I'm sure it's pretty obvious if they said no, we would say no to more money we pour into them.[/QUOTE] Bingo
[QUOTE=johnlmonkey;36575794]Yeah doesn't surprise me at all, the US has gone behind their back so frequently and vice versa. Tensions are very high.[/QUOTE] It's that and here in Pakistan we are constantly fed Islamist and extremist propaganda which people blindly follow since if a man of faith says something is evil, it must be true!
Well isn't it a big fucking surprise that they hate you for dronebombing so many of their citizens because "HURRR TERRORISM" för helvete get your shit together USA and start behaving like your actions have consequences
[QUOTE=smeismastger;36587407]Well isn't it a big fucking surprise that they hate you for dronebombing so many of their citizens because "HURRR TERRORISM" för helvete get your shit together USA and start behaving like your actions have consequences[/QUOTE] You make the assumption that this is the consequence of the drone strikes. Did it ever occur to you that this is the cause of said drone strikes? Pakistan, at a government level, understands the need to play nice with the United States. While they are nuclear armed, they are not capable of delivering a nuke directly to our doorstep, which means MAD is only partially in effect. At a cultural level we possess a mutual hatred. As a result Pakistan serves as a nasty harbor for extremists. Which is the popular misconception. People assume we are just blowing folks up, but most signs suggest that Pakistan really is a hotbed of legitimate extremism. The problem is that the drone strikes are a self perpetuating hatred generator. They deployed initially in order to quell the hatred through force, but said force generates more members of the opposing faction to replace the ones destroyed. It is not a strategy that will win in the long term as there is no net gain. Either overwhelming force that hits with such ridiculous levels of devastation that it leaves the survivors scrambling to feed themselves and survive the aftermath, or near total withdrawal, leaving only intelligence gathering means that should never be detected. It is all or (almost) nothing that has a chance of gaining any progress. Since going all out is not a happy time, the only way to make progress is to simply leave. Really this theory should apply to much of the middle east. Israel complicates things somewhat, but they have just decided to be complete dickbags anyways these days, so whatever. Let them mire themselves in eternal conflict. Europe and the United States alike have more than enough domestic issues of their own to solve. (Referring to the European Union, not individual nations here. Some nations in Europe have their mess pretty much sorted completely.)
[QUOTE=GunFox;36587810]You make the assumption that this is the consequence of the drone strikes. Did it ever occur to you that this is the cause of said drone strikes? Pakistan, at a government level, understands the need to play nice with the United States. While they are nuclear armed, they are not capable of delivering a nuke directly to our doorstep, which means MAD is only partially in effect. At a cultural level we possess a mutual hatred. As a result Pakistan serves as a nasty harbor for extremists. Which is the popular misconception. People assume we are just blowing folks up, but most signs suggest that Pakistan really is a hotbed of legitimate extremism. The problem is that the drone strikes are a self perpetuating hatred generator. They deployed initially in order to quell the hatred through force, but said force generates more members of the opposing faction to replace the ones destroyed. It is not a strategy that will win in the long term as there is no net gain. Either overwhelming force that hits with such ridiculous levels of devastation that it leaves the survivors scrambling to feed themselves and survive the aftermath, or near total withdrawal, leaving only intelligence gathering means that should never be detected. It is all or (almost) nothing that has a chance of gaining any progress. Since going all out is not a happy time, the only way to make progress is to simply leave. Really this theory should apply to much of the middle east. Israel complicates things somewhat, but they have just decided to be complete dickbags anyways these days, so whatever. Let them mire themselves in eternal conflict. Europe and the United States alike have more than enough domestic issues of their own to solve. (Referring to the European Union, not individual nations here. Some nations in Europe have their mess pretty much sorted completely.)[/QUOTE] It's not the government who is rated in the article, it's the Pakistani people. Just because the government allows drone strikes in the country doesn't mean the people enjoy it too. I don't think the people of the US would enjoy hearing another country do airstrikes into their country, killing countrymen regardless of extremism, just because the government said they can. Also, there's no such thing as "hatred on a cultural level". That's just dumb.
[QUOTE=Clementine;36585120]A lot of the world hates the USA for not caring, but we are the one nation that gives the most foreign aid? Yeah what?[/QUOTE] At the same time you force countries to open their markets entirely to TNCs so the aid becomes pretty much useless.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;36580358]What crack have you been smoking if you think the average drug user actually buys directly from mexican cartels.[/QUOTE] I'm trying to understand what you mean here. Even if the average drug user doesn't buy directly from the cartels, don't the drugs from the cartels eventually make their way to them because there's a demand? Isn't that kind of the same thing as indirectly funding the cartels? [QUOTE=NoDachi;36580358] You're deliberately missing out the entire drug trade that funds all these killings. And the US government have helped created the situation where these drug cartels can flourish. Anyone with a basic understanding on the War of Drugs understands this point, and how it is a complete abject failure.[/QUOTE] I would call the war on drugs a failure at this point, but how has it itself set up the conditions in which the cartels can thrive? [QUOTE=NoDachi;36580358] Fuck me. This is the last time I ever attempt to pose an abstract thought exercise to facepunch. I mean, what the fuck happened to pakistan?[/QUOTE] To be fair I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I think I'm missing some background information here. I would like it if you explained more.
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