[QUOTE=Perrine;50740014]source updated, says ISIS released video of attacker making threats, also
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36832909[/url][/QUOTE]
Greens are actually the fucking worst and everywhere not just in Britain it seems
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
Entirely unserious people who are in politics not to improve the country but to make themselves and their supporters feel good
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50740116]Greens are actually the fucking worst and everywhere not just in Britain it seems
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
Entirely unserious people who are in politics not to improve the country but to make themselves and their supporters feel good[/QUOTE]
The Green Youth Organisation said that germans shouldn't wave their flag at the european soccer championship because "patriotism = nationalism" and that would lead to far right violence.
And Claudia Roth, a member of the Green Party and vice president of the House of Representatives walked behind a banner saying "Germany you miserable piece of shit!"
And before the reunification of Germany she walked around with a banner that said: "Germany never again! Against the annexation of the GDR and against the german nationalism!"
Though I'm not sure if the last one is just a rumor or actually true, since the pictures I've found are all low resolution.
So yeah, that's the Green Party for you.
[I]But I don't wanna go off-topic:[/I]
I really hope that the chinese tourists that got attacked survive, I just heard in the news that two of them are still in a life-threatening condition
Must suck losing your life to the turbulent emotions of a fucking teenager.
[QUOTE=Mooe94;50738054]Oh shut up. What about the majority of refugees/immigrants/foreigners who are absolutely LOVING living in Germany? As soon as we forget that shit Daesh have won and they seem to be winning every single day every time sentiments like yours show up. Stop generalizing. Stop dividing. Stop with this endless polarization of the sides which grants us nothing but hate and more hate. We don't need any more hate.
Instead of expressing a glowing hate every time something like this happens - be the stronger person and express sorrow or love, or forget about it. Be constructive.[/QUOTE]
Christ how upside down your logic is. You're acting like letting everyone in without any checks and not letting anyone in are the only 2 possible solutions and then you lecture people not to polarize... You want to silence everyone who speaks out on how the refugees are causing problems and then you complain about creating hate. Dude, the more you deny there's a pattern, the stronger people will be pointing it out.
People are constructive, unlike you. They are pointing a finger at the problem and saying "hey there's a problem there, maybe lets admit that the problem exists and do something about it" and you go "no no no this has nothing to do with refugees, there's no problem with refugees, stop spreading hate".
You are escalating this crap. The discussion is getting more heated due to all the denial. If everyone went, "well yeah maybe it's not native germans raping women and hacking people with axes, maybe it actually has something to do with the migrants, we fucked up with opening the borders without proper checks and we will have to fix this mess now. Apologies to all germans for the fuck up" most people would shut up about the refugees because their concerns would be addressed. But no, stop spreading hate, this has nothing to do with refugees/migrants, right?
[QUOTE=kaskade700;50740606]Must suck losing your life to the turbulent emotions of a fucking teenager.[/QUOTE]
More like psychotic and ideologically brainwashed weak minded fool. Don't trivialize this act as turbulent emotions of a teenager.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50738949]The government have a responsibility to protect its citizens. If that means we have to deport thousands upon thousands then so be it. The West should NOT learn to live with terrorism.[/QUOTE]
how many times was it explained that that wont accomplish anything against terrorism?
[QUOTE=IceTea;50734689]Why do people do this? [B]What did he accomplish?[/B]
Literally every 2 or 3 days, there's a terrorist attack or a psycho on a fucking train.
Fuck.[/QUOTE]
fear
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;50743177]Okay buddy; what are these magical "checks" I keep hearing about. Do we scan their brains with our terrorism scanner Apps? Do we say fuck you to everyone who might not have good papers? Do we just make the immigration process ridiculously hard providing a market for coyotes no doubt resulting in more deaths and money towards criminal organisations [/QUOTE]
Ok "buddy", what the hell are you even arguing here for? Not screening anyone? Is this what we should be doing? Just let everyone in and pay them money for simply staying in europe?
This attitude caused the entire mass immigration to Germany in the first place. Many of the economic migrants are now going back. Many actual refugees, who left their home because of the fucking war, who have lost everything now have it much harder because of all the economic migrants, who aren't fleeing from death. Shouldn't the actual war refugees get priority?
And the checks are mostly interviews, it's not based on papers "buddy". You check if they even know which country they are coming from. There have been "refugees" saying they are fleeing from war in the fucking emirates. You check their photos and fingerprints with watchlist databases, ask them about their family, ask them about their hometown. You check if they are actually fleeing from war or they are bullshitting. If they are bullshitting, you don't let them in, because they are either economic migrant or a dangerous person and we want to help refugees first. Then when everything is okay they will select a place for the refugee. Possibly find his family. This isn't 100% proof because you can get radicalized later, but it's certainly better than nothing. In your perfect system, if a thousand of ISIS warriors would decide to migrate to europe, they would be free to do it.
But no, lets let everyone in, don't check shit, invite as many economic migrants as possible. People will get hacked with axes, driven over with trucks, raped and blown up, while the actual war refugees are lost somewhere in the crowd of economic migrants but hey, we can virtue signal how good people we are. Right "buddy"?
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;50743177]And you know; Stopping these people from entering Europe doesn't solve the whole violence issue right? No no let's keep it in the developing world where governments are even less equipped to deal with it![/QUOTE]
I'm baffled. I can't comprehend what were you thinking typing this. So it doesn't matter if they are killing people in Syria or in Germany? So we should just let them in and get used to it? Because if they won't be killing people in Germany they will be doing it in Syria? So it doesn't matter in the grand sceme of things? What?
Well I'm sorry I don't want to live in fear of terrorism, I'd rather have them stopped from entering my country if possible. I'm a terrible person like that.
[QUOTE=Mooe94;50738082]Living or growing up in a broken country filled with war certainly leaves you an aching wound. Daesh are incredibly fast and effective with their propaganda. Growing up in a situation like that, especially as a young teen at around 17 years old, probably leaves you in a easily manipulative state of mind.
You are either asked to fight against the Western powers who "started it all" before you were even born (which in many different ways we did, we are absolutely 100% included in this war, but no one wants to take responsibility so this will all continue) with Daesh who claims to rebel against them, or you try to muster up against this absolutely terrifying enemy. As a kid.
It's really not hard math, anyone can be brainwashed into thinking anything. When you add things together it starts to make sense, at least it does to me.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure people would trade them all back if it meant not having a terrorist attack every other day. Set up safe zones their home country to help, because the status quo is failing miserably.
[QUOTE=da space core;50742432]how many times was it explained that that wont accomplish anything against terrorism?[/QUOTE]
It has never been done so it is impossible to say that that won't accomplish anything against terrorism.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50740116]Greens are actually the fucking worst and everywhere not just in Britain it seems
[editline]19th July 2016[/editline]
Entirely unserious people who are in politics not to improve the country but to make themselves and their supporters feel good[/QUOTE]
Its a protest vote party.
You (the hypothetical) don't vote for Greens hoping to get greens. You vote greens hoping that the mainstream parties will see a demand for those "left wing" policies and perhaps consider adopting them.
[editline]20th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50743386]It has never been done so it is impossible to say that that won't accomplish anything against terrorism.[/QUOTE]
The Soviets did it.
They were a sterling bunch.
[editline]20th July 2016[/editline]
Basically ethnic cleansing.
How can you compare deportation with ethnic cleansing.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50743516]How can you compare deportation with ethnic cleansing.[/QUOTE]
please look up the definition of ethnic cleansing
considering that you already argued for sippenhaft in another thread
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50743552]please look up the definition of ethnic cleansing
considering that you already argued for sippenhaft in another thread[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][...]with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous[/QUOTE]
Didn't see him call for the deportation of pretty much every non-ethnic German
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50743688]Didn't see him call for the deportation of pretty much every non-ethnic German[/QUOTE]
You're basically rehashing the "its not racism because islam is not a race"
Deport => They're foreign
Foreign + Muslim => probably not ethnically european => mass deportation of (ethnically) none europeans => ethnic cleansing
Try replace "muslim" with "jew" or "christian" and ask yourself how you feel about it.
Some people with similar views to yours show concern about "being outbred" or "incompatible culture" which implies it's not wholly about religion.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50743386]It has never been done so it is impossible to say that that won't accomplish anything against terrorism.[/QUOTE]
1 in 15,000 (.0067%) Muslims is violently radicalized, so your "thousands upon thousands" would have to go pretty goddamn far to have any impact whatsoever. In order to remove 100 active extremists from the country, you'd have to give the boot to over 1.5m innocent people.
[I]Totally worth it.[/I]
Then, of course, there's the fact that we're pushing 1.5m people with no homes, no money, and no food back into the war torn theocratic dictatorships from which they've fled (or, even more concerning, pushing out actual French citizens who've been living in France for a generation or more). Surely that won't result in fanning the flames of anti-Western sentiment at all. In removing that hundred or so extremists, you'd have likely just created thousands more.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50743797]You're basically rehashing the "its not racism because islam is not a race"
Deport => They're foreign
Foreign + Muslim => probably not ethnically european => mass deportation of (ethnically) none europeans => ethnic cleansing
Try replace "muslim" with "jew" or "christian" and ask yourself how you feel about it.
Some people with similar views to yours show concern about "being outbred" or "incompatible culture" which implies it's not wholly about religion.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck lmao you are so desperate to find something racist in every post you literally invent something
That's not even close to what I posted
As you can see by Trebgarta's definition, the definitions differ a bit, the one I found stated, that the goal of ethnic cleansing is an ethnically homogenous country. To achieve that you wouldn't only have to deport Arabs, muslims, Africans, etc. but also non-Arab Asians even other Europeans such as Poles, Swedes, Brits, and the rest.
Literally everythhing that's not ethnically German.
Did he write anything close to it? Did he even mention that everyone of an ethnicity or religious group should be deported? Don't think so.
So please, stop doing that.
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50744140]
Did he write anything close to it? Did he even mention that everyone of an ethnicity or religious group should be deported? Don't think so.
[/QUOTE]
so when he said "if you need to deport thousands upon thousands, then so be it" who was he referring to.
bear in mind you're talking about the poster who has frequently been anti-islam, frequently been anti-refugee and has suggested the immediate deportation of families and relatives of islamic terrorists
Let's try to redefine "ethnic cleansing" so that we can feel better about committing it.
You can argue semantics all day long, but you're still talking about trying to round up and force out an entire cultural group. It doesn't matter what name you call that by, that's fucking abhorrent, and is guaranteed to cause more problems than it prevents.
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;50744140]What the fuck lmao you are so desperate to find something racist in every post you literally invent something
That's not even close to what I posted
As you can see by Trebgarta's definition, the definitions differ a bit, the one I found stated, that the goal of ethnic cleansing is an ethnically homogenous country. To achieve that you wouldn't only have to deport Arabs, muslims, Africans, etc. but also non-Arab Asians even other Europeans such as Poles, Swedes, Brits, and the rest.
Literally everythhing that's not ethnically German.
Did he write anything close to it? Did he even mention that everyone of an ethnicity or religious group should be deported? Don't think so.
So please, stop doing that.[/QUOTE]
Hmm so its not ethnic cleansing because your goal is to just remove SOME ethnicities rather than ALL other ethnicities...
I said people with similar views to your own clearly have further concerns than just religion, race and genetics might come into it. Don't get all defensive about it, people might get the wrong impression.
What would it take for Germany to change it's mind and nope out of the current immigrant crisis, round up all the refugees and send them back?
I bet it would cost a shit load of money, be severely unpopular, and probably take a few years, but it would alleviate the pressure.
This is probably a very unpopular opinion, but there is a reason the whole class gets detentions for the wrongdoings of a few.
It comes down to the fact that the government has the obligation to protect their citizens first and foremost, political correctness be damned. And I'm simply seeing the opposite these days.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;50744455]What would it take for Germany to change it's mind and nope out of the current immigrant crisis, round up all the refugees and send them back?
I bet it would cost a shit load of money, be severely unpopular, and probably take a few years, but it would alleviate the pressure.
This is probably a very unpopular opinion, but there is a reason the whole class gets detentions for the wrongdoings of a few.
It comes down to the fact that the government has the obligation to protect their citizens first and foremost, political correctness be damned. And I'm simply seeing the opposite these days.[/QUOTE]
Knowing what we know about the statistics regarding the number of extremists compared to total populations of Muslims, you're talking about rounding up and deporting Germany's 4.3 million Muslim residents in the name of protecting the country from the ~300 violent extremists among them.
So, what you're effectively suggesting is that, right off the bat, we destroy the lives of 4.3 million people for the illusion of safety. Then, we must deal with the inevitable consequences of that deeply misguided course of action when tens of thousands of those now homeless and penniless people are shunted off to warzones and take up arms and begin warring for survival-- leading to the formation of entirely new militarized extremist factions?
Sounds like a really solid plan, dude.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;50744455]What would it take for Germany to change it's mind and nope out of the current immigrant crisis, round up all the refugees and send them back?
I bet it would cost a shit load of money, be severely unpopular, and probably take a few years, but it would alleviate the pressure.
This is probably a very unpopular opinion, but there is a reason the whole class gets detentions for the wrongdoings of a few.
It comes down to the fact that the government has the obligation to protect their citizens first and foremost, political correctness be damned. And I'm simply seeing the opposite these days.[/QUOTE]
That sort of 2 dimensional extrapolation of an unrelated example {there is a reason the whole class gets detentions for the wrongdoings of a few.} shows me just how little you understand of the situation. First of all, giving an entire class detention for 1 person's misbehavior is something I've only seen in memoirs and boarding school fiction because IT DOESN'T WORK. Think, by punishing the whole class, you are punishing not only sympathizers but also people apathetic to the rebellious kid, people who actively hate the perpetrator, people who like the teacher and people whp don't. You punish and lose the trust of elements who supported and were cooperative with you in class. You give those who disliked the teacher a solid reason to despise them and cause even more problems for class. And in total, you just made everybody mad and accomplished nothing. Taking this analogy further, your conduct would be in re iew when every parent of an innocent child lodges complaints.
In terms of an entire country, the implications are far more dire. Families of extremists are usually not extremists, and if they have regular contact with said extremist they try and talk them down because they are well aware of what people like you think and they think the ideology is wrong. For their trouble, they are often ignored, threatened, or attacked as the extremist views those who disagree with their ideology as subhuman after indoctrination. Families which are actively sympathetic are convicted alongside the extremist by evidence providing support, cover, or alibi for the perpetrator. So there is no need to deport associated family or the ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUP. It will not stop existing extremists, it will disenfranchise more muslims and breed more extremists, and it is downright inhumane. Protection of the citizens my foot.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50744514]Knowing what we know about the statistics regarding the number of extremists compared to total populations of Muslims, you're talking about rounding up and deporting Germany's 4.3 million Muslim residents in the name of protecting the country from the ~300 violent extremists among them.
So, what you're effectively suggesting is that, right off the bat, we destroy the lives of 4.3 million people for the illusion of safety, and then deal with the inevitable consequences of that deeply misguided course of action when tens of thousands of those now homeless and penniless people are shunted off to warzones and take up arms and begin warring for survival-- leading to the formation of entirely new militarized extremist factions?
Sounds like a really solid plan, dude.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Aircraft;50744535]That sort of 2 dimensional extrapolation of an unrelated example {there is a reason the whole class gets detentions for the wrongdoings of a few.} shows me just how little you understand of the situation. First of all, giving an entire class detention for 1 person's misbehavior is something I've only seen in memoirs and boarding school fiction because IT DOESN'T WORK. Think, by punishing the whole class, you are punishing not only sympathizers but also people apathetic to the rebellious kid, people who actively hate the perpetrator, people who like the teacher and people whp don't. You punish and lose the trust of elements who supported and were cooperative with you in class. You give those who disliked the teacher a solid reason to despise them and cause even more problems for class. And in total, you just made everybody mad and accomplished nothing. Taking this analogy further, your conduct would be in re iew when every parent of an innocent child lodges complaints.
In terms of an entire country, the implications are far more dire. Families of extremists are usually not extremists, and if they have regular contact with said extremist they try and talk them down because they are well aware of what people like you think and they think the ideology is wrong. For their trouble, they are often ignored, threatened, or attacked as the extremist views those who disagree with their ideology as subhuman after indoctrination. Families which are actively sympathetic are convicted alongside the extremist by evidence providing support, cover, or alibi for the perpetrator. So there is no need to deport associated family or the ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUP. It will not stop existing extremists, it will disenfranchise more muslims and breed more extremists, and it is downright inhumane. Protection of the citizens my foot.[/QUOTE]
True. That would likely build armies.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50744514]
So, what you're effectively suggesting is that, right off the bat, we destroy the lives of 4.3 million people for the illusion of safety, and then deal with the inevitable consequences of that deeply misguided course of action when tens of thousands of those now homeless and penniless people are shunted off to warzones and take up arms and begin warring for survival-- leading to the formation of entirely new militarized extremist factions?
Sounds like a really solid plan, dude.[/QUOTE]
Ah you're missing a key component in the plan.
Don't send them home, that's a clearly ridiculous and expensive idea, they'll just come back.
No no we need some sort of site where they can be controlled, we could even make them pay their keep with some kind of work or labour. Something like a... a camp to gather people in like a concentration site or something.
Since we've got such a good plan to deal with potentially dangerous people we should probably put other troublesome groups in there. Those gypsies steal and stuff so they could go to the gathering sites, slavs have a higher chance to be in the Russian or ukrainian mafia so we should send them there. Jews live in dispora anyway so I'm sure they wouldn't mind.
Its a solution! We won't need another solution after it. It's the final fix to "the problem".
Until we get it rolled out a quick stopgap solution might be an easier way to identify them, perhaps a golden crescent sewed to their clothes?
[QUOTE=Perrine;50740014]source updated, says ISIS released video of attacker making threats, also
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36832909[/url][/QUOTE]
I really want to know in what kind of fantasy world the extreme left lives in.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50738033]Could have been radicalized after the emigration, too. Radicalization is a dial, not a switch. Recruiters may have been working on on him for some time, slowly turning that dial. It may have also been exacerbated by xenophobic sentiment directed at Muslims and Arabs, causing him to feel alienated from his host society and making the process easier.
There's really no way to know without further info.[/QUOTE]
"radicalization is a dial, not a switch" - i like that idea a lot, and to be honest it makes a shit ton of sense.
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