USA: 6 Million More Students With Bachelor’s Degrees Than Jobs Available for Them: One-third of thos
183 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48911631]...which I don't have because I've never had a job before, so no entry level job. So I apparently need some sort of unpaid internship, but if I need one and I'm not particularly unique in not having experience yet, then, so does everyone else my age. So those are going to dry up real fucking quick if they haven't already. So...now what?[/QUOTE]
Good luck networking if you aren't middle class as well. It's a particular problem here in Britain due to the class system, where essentially you're fucked if you don't have middle to upper class parents and don't get lucky in making the right friends.
[QUOTE=Slade Xanthas;48911594]Got pretty lucky where I am right now. Working Customer Service at 14.50 an hour at one of the world's largest health insurance agencies and I don't have a lick of college education, let alone a degree.
Experience and networking will get you places.[/QUOTE]
Social networks is huge. My cousin came here from Vietnam a few years ago and has now landed a job at some company earning him almost 30 bucks an hour and has absolutely no experience. He doesn't even know English that well at all, but he is super social and has a bunch of friends.
The problem with studies like this is that they still live in a world that assume degrees = jobs, which just isn't true and hasn't been true for well over a decade.
I guess you could say that is a problem for society in general, and a problem with how we over-value degrees by a shit ton.
Jobs are everywhere, and you can certainly find one in a related field you want to work in. The thing is that it requires much more than a degree to get, or rather a much smarter approach than relying on a paper. Your degree is just a tool, one of many that help you sell yourself to companies. Imagine if you are a company wanting to hire for a position, what kinds of things would you look for in a person?
A degree is obvious, especially if its a skilled position. But hiring based off of degrees is a bad idea because degrees don't actually prove you have real world experience doing what you do. You also need to worry about location - it is simply too expensive to hire someone who isn't local when they are unproven with years of provable experience doing the exact thing you are hiring for. And frankly, it's hard to trust a candidate that is a complete stranger, who might clash with your company culture, who might have serious work-related issues without anyone you trust that can back them up.
This is why having experience, connections and location is so important. It is why Valve hires Digipen students who make exceptional projects right out of school (provable experience, connections). It is why hiring managers will interview the guy who doesn't need to have relocation costs paid over the guy who lives hundreds of miles away (location).
You can literally get a job doing exactly what you want. The trick is you have to start thinking like you already work in that industry, and really understand how that industry ticks. This is how you build connections, this is how you gain "experience" (even if its free-time or part time job related experience), this is how you know where to move when you are done with school so you can get the job, and how you understand what kinds of skills/things/experiences you need to do to be someone that is desirable. Ironically, this is a lot easier to do when you are chasing your dream job, because you are already going to be intimately aware of the ins and outs of that kind of job, even if it isn't going to be as available.
A student going in blind applying to everywhere right out of college will never get a job. Period. Unless the stars align and they get really lucky or they happen to live in a market that REALLY needs anyone.
Everyone I know that works at a local IT firm got the job out of school because they had a loosely-related degree (my sis is a math+science education major) and worked in the student IT department throughout all of college. They had direct experience doing the exact thing the job was for, and had department heads to back them up. They actually knew how to do the job in the real world, and are local to boot.
[QUOTE=KorJax;48911845]The problem with studies like this is that they still live in a world that assume degrees = jobs, which just isn't true and hasn't been true for well over a decade.
I guess you could say that is a problem for society in general, and a problem with how we over-value degrees by a shit ton.
Jobs are everywhere, and you can certainly find one in a related field you want to work in. The thing is that it requires much more than a degree to get, or rather a much smarter approach than relying on a paper. Your degree is just a tool, one of many that help you sell yourself to companies. Imagine if you are a company wanting to hire for a position, what kinds of things would you look for in a person?
A degree is obvious, especially if its a skilled position. But hiring based off of degrees is a bad idea because degrees don't actually prove you have real world experience doing what you do. You also need to worry about location - it is simply too expensive to hire someone who isn't local when they are unproven with years of provable experience doing the exact thing you are hiring for. And frankly, it's hard to trust a candidate that is a complete stranger, who might clash with your company culture, who might have serious work-related issues without anyone you trust that can back them up.
This is why having experience, connections and location is so important. It is why Valve hires Digipen students who make exceptional projects right out of school (provable experience, connections). It is why hiring managers will interview the guy who doesn't need to have relocation costs paid over the guy who lives hundreds of miles away (location).
You can literally get a job doing exactly what you want. The trick is you have to start thinking like you already work in that industry, and really understand how that industry ticks. This is how you build connections, this is how you gain "experience" (even if its free-time or part time job related experience), this is how you know where to move when you are done with school so you can get the job.
A student going in blind applying to everywhere right out of college will never get a job. Period. Unless the stars align and they get really lucky or they happen to live in a market that REALLY needs anyone.
Everyone I know that works at a local IT firm got the job out of school because they had a loosely-related degree (my sis is a math+science education major) and worked in the student IT department throughout all of college. They had direct experience doing the exact thing the job was for, and had department heads to back them up. They actually knew how to do the job in the real world, and are local to boot.[/QUOTE]
Though you're not wrong, opportunities for networking and experience (which gets into volunteering/unpaid opportunities which a lot of people can't do for various financial reasons and time constraints) are few and far between for a lot of people who may not be in ideal locations and can't afford to relocate.
It sounds easy to lay it out like that: Make connections! Network! Throw yourself in there! But it's just not always available.
The formula for success is there, of course, but it doesn't take into account people's finances, home life, and various other stipulations that may be preventing someone from succeeding, even if they do show promise in any given field.
For sure, and it certainly is easier in some fields more than others.
At the same time, that is simply how it is. You have to set yourself up to be prepared. And honestly its rare for a candidate to have all the check marks (relevant degree, local, great connections, experience). But you need to really have a majority of them, even if it takes a few years post college working part time to save up while doing independent studies in your own time.
The good news is the internet makes this easier than ever to do. You don't really need to be local to make connections. Join a community online that relates to the exact thing you want to do. Even if it isn't directly job related, it's pretty likely someone in that community is doing the job you want to do or has a good chance of landing one soon. These are the areas you should be active. Look at what people in these communities are doing, and see if you can join in or use this as a map to figure out what you need to do.
After a while it should become obvious. "Oh I need to do this, this and this to get the experience/connections/etc I need to actually be of value"
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
If anything, the failure of school is that they don't teach shit like this at all.
[QUOTE=KorJax;48911905]For sure, and it certainly is easier in some fields more than others.
At the same time, that is simply how it is. You have to set yourself up to be prepared. And honestly its rare for a candidate to have all the check marks (relevant degree, local, great connections, experience). But you need to really have a majority of them, even if it takes a few years post college working part time to save up while doing independent studies in your own time.
The good news is the internet makes this easier than ever to do. You don't really need to be local to make connections. Join a community online that relates to the exact thing you want to do. Even if it isn't directly job related, it's pretty likely someone in that community is doing the job you want to do or has a good chance of landing one soon. These are the areas you should be active. Look at what people in these communities are doing, and see if you can join in or use this as a map to figure out what you need to do.
After a while it should become obvious. "Oh I need to do this, this and this to get the experience/connections/etc I need to actually be of value"
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
If anything, the failure of school is that they don't teach shit like this at all.[/QUOTE]
You say this like you can just get connections at the snap of your fingers.
Unless you have parents who have friends in that field getting connections in something is very difficult.
Depending on what you're majoring in, the internet can be a great place to network. Twitter as it turns out is a haven for science networking.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48911927]You say this like you can just get connections at the snap of your fingers.
Unless you [B]have parents who have friends in that field [/B]getting connections in something is very difficult.[/QUOTE]
OK, I plan on going into Archaeology, and neither of my parents are Archaeologists. Yet, I've met with the former state Archaeologist, the current state Archaeologist, and my Archaeology professor has offered to take me out on digs and get paid for it. Yes, it takes a modicum of effort, but networking isn't that hard.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48911960]OK, I plan on going into Archaeology, and neither of my parents are Archaeologists. Yet, I've met with the former state Archaeologist, the current state Archaeologist, and my Archaeology professor has offered to take me out on digs and get paid for it. Yes, it takes a modicum of effort, but networking isn't that hard.[/QUOTE]
That just sounds like luck to be honest.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48911968]That just sounds like luck to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Depends on how the meetings happened. Go to free seminars from people in your field, wait around, approach them after and see if you can chat a bit. Shoot them an email, a tweet, and whatever. Offer to get lunch, etc. A little effort goes a long way. [I]Especially[/I] in highly competitive fields. If you're in science and you don't talk to faculty or ask for jobs in labs you're [I]fucked.[/I] Just remember there's always someone more determined than you, so you have to try your hardest to get noticed.
Just last week I was able to get [url=http://natgeotv.com/za/shark-men/biographies]Chris Fischer's[/url] business card by waiting around after a seminar and listening to peoples questions.
[editline]15th October 2015[/editline]
Experts [I]love[/I] talking about their thing. Showing a lot of [I]genuine[/I] interest in their thing will keep you in their mind.
[QUOTE=Archonos 2;48909590]Why is this always the first response?
"Hehe heh I bet all 6 million of these kids have degrees in philosophy and studio art huehue"
It's hard to find a job out of college. It seems like unless you go for engineering, computers, or hard science then you're screwed and even then it's difficult. And not everyone wants a future in those fields.[/QUOTE]
First off I'm going into Studio art....
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48911968]That just sounds like luck to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Not really, I made an effort to meet all those people. If I had just gone to my Archaeology class and never mentioned I wanted to be an Archaeologist my professor would never have offered. And with the former State Archaeologist, I ended up going to a talk of his, and talking to him afterwards, similar deal with the current one.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48912054]mentioned I wanted to be an Archaeologist,going to a talk of his, and talking to him afterwards, similar deal with the current one.[/QUOTE]
Would you look at that. Exactly as I said. Good work.
[editline]15th October 2015[/editline]
results may vary*
Yeah, it's definitely not going to work out like that for everyone, but it's always worth it to seek out people doing what you want to do to try and help get your foot in the door.
[QUOTE=OvB;48912034]Depends on how the meetings happened. Go to free seminars from people in your field, wait around, approach them after and see if you can chat a bit. Shoot them an email, a tweet, and whatever. Offer to get lunch, etc. A little effort goes a long way. [I]Especially[/I] in highly competitive fields. If you're in science and you don't talk to faculty or ask for jobs in labs you're [I]fucked.[/I] Just remember there's always someone more determined than you, so you have to try your hardest to get noticed.
Just last week I was able to get [url=http://natgeotv.com/za/shark-men/biographies]Chris Fischer's[/url] business card by waiting around after a seminar and listening to peoples questions.
[editline]15th October 2015[/editline]
Experts [I]love[/I] talking about their thing. Showing a lot of [I]genuine[/I] interest in their thing will keep you in their mind.[/QUOTE]
That approach only works for academic avenues, I'm talking about jobs in general.
If STEM fields are the only ones that can get jobs, should society ever support philosophy or arts?
I mean I get the feeling that those of you who think the arts are a waste of time are also a waste of knowledge.
People should be able to be educated, not just for a job but just because!
Why should only the rich have the option of learning just because?
[editline]15th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=bdd458;48911960]OK, I plan on going into Archaeology, and neither of my parents are Archaeologists. Yet, I've met with the former state Archaeologist, the current state Archaeologist, and my Archaeology professor has offered to take me out on digs and get paid for it. Yes, it takes a modicum of effort, but networking isn't that hard.[/QUOTE]
I went to film school. Went to work for some of the teachers, that short film is Oscar nominated.
I'm not making a killing in my field though.
It's really variable.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;48910458]not everyone wants to do a STEM field, but still wants to get education in a field they are interested in[/QUOTE]
Well then tough shit when people dont need your services due to lack of demand, especially something niche like aforementioned marine biology.
Youngsters and leftists fail to realise that no matter how friendly people want to be, we are always living in a hostile environment. You studied Philosophy because you loved it, thats great; what about your future? Oh, didnt you hear, there are no philosophy-related jobs? Why? Who the fuck needs that lol.
When I was applying for an internship, there were companies that required years of experience to apply.
I thought the point of internships was to gain experience wtf.
I dropped out of school due to mental health reasons; originally I majored in anthropology, which I loved, but getting a job in that field is nigh on impossible, or so I've been told. So I switched to computer science because hurr durr that's where the money is hurr. I hated it and dropped out before I finished that semester.
I've been working retail for coming on two years now, and while I've had some work experience and a little bit of experience "leading" my coworkers, I want to get back to school eventually. But I don't know what I want to major in, and I want to move abroad in the near future, I'm not sure how much use my (theoretical) degree would be. I'm really interested in history and....that's it. Am I shit out of luck just because I don't want to study a STEM discipline?
I took computer science and programming classes once. It was like an episode of Big Bang Theory every single day with the people surrounding me. Every day was a cringe, after 3 years I got the fuck out for my sanity.
To be fair, there are a few cases that contribute to that large multi-million figure.
1. Non-useful degrees; The employability of several humanities/social studies degrees are questionable at best. An example? Poor Philosophy degree dude up here. (Political Science? etc)
2. Degrees with unstable employment; music degrees, arts, drama degrees fall in this category. They are somewhat talent based, and those who don't have the talent for it, cant make it. Is it their fault? Sort of. But who's going to watch a movie with a poor cast, poor script, and poor director?
3. Shitty schools. You got a degree! It's from a college no-one has ever heard of! What did you learn? Not a whole lot more than highschool! Great, you get the same job a highschool student could do.
4. Partying, drugs, not doing a whole lot in college. You got your degree. Your GPA can be rounded down to 0 pretty easily, you've managed to attend... what class was it? Will you hire someone whose obviously shown no effort at school? Maybe. If they had a great resume, sure. But, if they had a great resume, why did they go to school at all... couldn't they have just party'd without spending tuition?
You could probably list out a bunch more, but these come to the top of my head right now.
I went culinary school, a different route from most people. While it cost quite a fortune, the great thing about this industry is that there are always jobs, unless a huge recession comes and everyone stops eating out. Problem is, pay in this industry is shit. Hence, I might take up a secondary job.
People need to stop feeling pressured by friends or families that getting a degree is gonna work out, or have the idea that they'll be a bump for not going in.
Lucky for me, my industry does not require experience, since its skill based, everyone starts from the bottom. I got to know whether I like this career, and then decided to go for school. If its possible for you to either work as a apprentice or volunteer, do it, it'll give you an idea.
The same can't be said for the other industries. But, if you can't find a job, you could always consider starting your own business (usually requires some exp, but if your idea sounds good and you can get investors, it could work)
My highest certification is only a diploma, and a degree in this industry is expensive as fuck (and you get one of the lowest pays)
Too many young people watch hells kitchen or gordon ramsay and decide they wanna be like him. Thats a stupid move.
And don't get a degree just because your friends are doing it/my friend wants to get a degree so I'm going to the same course as he is
You've no idea how many friends I know who just take up engineering just because everyone's doing it.
Or business. Like just general business, not even a specific field of business.
Good thing I never finished my college education.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;48912803]Well then tough shit when people dont need your services due to lack of demand, especially something niche like aforementioned marine biology.
Youngsters and leftists fail to realise that no matter how friendly people want to be, we are always living in a hostile environment. You studied Philosophy because you loved it, thats great; what about your future? Oh, didnt you hear, there are no philosophy-related jobs? Why? Who the fuck needs that lol.[/QUOTE]
Answer me this really simply
Is knowledge unrelated to work worthless?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48913297]Answer me this really simply
Is knowledge unrelated to work worthless?[/QUOTE]
To your employer, most likely.
The most successful people I know don't even have college degrees. Is there really a point in staying in uni anymore? Sure, I definitely think I have the potential to become a very good engineer with my track record but is there a job at the end of that? Every time an article like this comes out, the more I think that it would be a smarter idea just to drop out entirely regardless of how good I'm doing and try to pursue other interests, but I couldn't even begin to know where to start.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;48913787]The most successful people I know don't even have college degrees. Is there really a point in staying in uni anymore? Sure, I definitely think I have the potential to become a very good engineer with my track record but is there a job at the end of that? Every time an article like this comes out, the more I think that it would be a smarter idea just to drop out entirely regardless of how good I'm doing and try to pursue other interests, but I couldn't even begin to know where to start.[/QUOTE]
It simply depends my friend, on how you invest your time and how lucky you are. There are people, with and without degrees, that get jobs; there are people with or without degrees that do [B]not[/B] get jobs. Maybe one knew a guy that he met either through 1. University internship/faculty/student etc or 2. working at his local retail store/through parents/friends etc. Then they invested time into that relationship, either on purpose or just by accident, and it paid off.
Maybe the degree earns them a bit more from their employer as a qualification. Maybe their experience earns them a little more than someone else with a degree since they physically put in more hours.
Life is just a crapshoot. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Simple matter of fact is, rewards won't be given to you. They may be presented to you as a sudden opportunity or a planned investment, but it's always a gamble and always unpredictable.
But if you are young, then you have time on your side. For the most part.
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48913297]Answer me this really simply
Is knowledge unrelated to work worthless?[/QUOTE]
In a perfect world, knowledge itself would have more weight.
But, at some point you have to accept the world simply doesn't work that way.
You are free to learn as you like, but you must accept the inherent risk in doing so considering the world's current state and the job market of today (and tomorrow).
There is no right or wrong answer because, in theory, any human can adapt to learn anything. So, someone with one degree often ends up working in the purview of another one entirely. Or a person without a degree works a job that often requires degrees simply because they chose to spend their time working instead of "learning" in the academic sense, and instead learned the traditional route through physical labor in their art and through this work, and their own luck they found connections and then found work.
[QUOTE=Angus725;48913591]To your employer, most likely.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
Is life just what you are fiscally valued at?
Are you a person, or an employee? Do you live your own life?
What if in 10 years employers required dramatically higher hours and work rates for less money, and that's just everywhere? Can you protest that system? Is it okay for us to protest any system we feel is abusive?
My point with that question was purely to find out if some of you consider the fields of more abstract thinking worthless just because it isn't directly job related. I think if we could educate all people better that'd be good, even just to keep learning about an interest would be good for people.
Why should only the rich and privileged get to study non job related fields? Is higher learning not to do something more than learn how to work in cookie cutter jobs? I'm just curious the value we actually WANT to place on knowledge versus just being a worker for a corporation.
Maybe I'm dumb
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48913921]Okay.
Is life just what you are fiscally valued at?
...
Maybe I'm dumb[/QUOTE]
No, I don't think so. The truth is that without having gone through higher education, a person can't even concieve of what they are missing out on. I was made aware of points of view I never even dreamed of by going to university, not only that but ways to express concepts. While some people might think that limiting education to what is needed for the workforce is a good idea, I, like you, disagree. Education is something that betters a person totally. Just because someone works as a heavy machinery technician doesn't mean they can't have some bright idea about other stuff, but if they don't ever get exposed to all this pesky knowlege we have building up, their world will remain inherently small.
Sadly, because of money, some people do arguably have good reason to go just to a trade program. Ideally education would be complete and free.
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