USA: 6 Million More Students With Bachelor’s Degrees Than Jobs Available for Them: One-third of thos
183 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;48913969]No, I don't think so. The truth is that without having gone through higher education, a person can't even concieve of what they are missing out on. I was made aware of points of view I never even dreamed of by going to university, not only that but ways to express concepts. While some people might think that limiting education to what is needed for the workforce is a good idea, I, like you, disagree. Education is something that betters a person totally. Just because someone works as a heavy machinery technician doesn't mean they can't have some bright idea about other stuff, but if they don't ever get exposed to all this pesky knowlege we have building up, their world will remain inherently small.
.[/QUOTE]
Lol that is complete bullshit in this day and age.
Are you really so arrogant as to think university made you more worldly and wise than people who don't go to university?
My experience has been that people who went straight from high school to university are actually some of the most ignorant and unrealistic people because they have very little life experience. They engage on topics and concepts, but its often superficial because they have no experience in the areas they are want to talk authoritatively about.
Doubly so with the internet now, people are exposed to more ideas, ways of thinking and novel concepts than you could ever hope to fit in a few years of education.
Education is free, its called a library. If you get into debt solely for the sake of "broadening your horizons" that's on you.
[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;48914071]
Education is free, its called a library. If you get into debt solely for the sake of "broadening your horizons" that's on you.[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you're trying to learn. While it's possible in principle to learn almost anything from a book, in practice it's pretty easy to get stuck without the guidance of instructors.
Tbh if you don't want to be a scientist, engineer, doctor, teacher, or lawyer, you shouldn't be in college.
[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;48914071]Lol that is complete bullshit in this day and age.
Are you really so arrogant as to think university made you more worldly and wise than people who don't go to university?
My experience has been that people who went straight from high school to university are actually some of the most ignorant and unrealistic people because they have very little life experience. They engage on topics and concepts, but its often superficial because they have no experience in the areas they are want to talk authoritatively about.
Doubly so with the internet now, people are exposed to more ideas, ways of thinking and novel concepts than you could ever hope to fit in a few years of education.
Education is free, its called a library. If you get into debt solely for the sake of "broadening your horizons" that's on you.[/QUOTE]
You're the deluded one if you think the internet and libraries are any replacement for an actual education, lmao.
like, employers are looking for well rounded individuals (at least educationally wise), not just someone who can only do math or something like that. They're looking for people who can do a variety of things, and you don't fucking get that by going on the internet and self-teaching, it's insane to think that.
[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;48915263]Tbh if you don't want to be a scientist, engineer, doctor, teacher, or lawyer, you shouldn't be in college.[/QUOTE]
People go to college because unless you want to stack shelves for the rest your life or you get really really lucky, you pretty much need some sort of degree
[QUOTE=dilzinyomouth;48914071]Lol that is complete bullshit in this day and age.
Are you really so arrogant as to think university made you more worldly and wise than people who don't go to university?
My experience has been that people who went straight from high school to university are actually some of the most ignorant and unrealistic people because they have very little life experience. They engage on topics and concepts, but its often superficial because they have no experience in the areas they are want to talk authoritatively about.
Doubly so with the internet now, people are exposed to more ideas, ways of thinking and novel concepts than you could ever hope to fit in a few years of education.
Education is free, its called a library. If you get into debt solely for the sake of "broadening your horizons" that's on you.[/QUOTE]
Spoken like a truly ignorant and unrealistic person! If you had any understanding of what going to uni actually is like and what it provides you'd think differently. Lots of unis have even began helping introduce students into networking and job finding in recent years, they're more than just book education. They provide practical experiences too. Good luck getting those with just books and a library.
[QUOTE=Snapster;48913651][media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY[/media][/QUOTE]
Mhmm, the sweeping national economic studies into the increasing costs and necessities of progressively less valuable higher education are bunk. The TRUTH is just that lazy kids these days don't want to work. Bill Maher and Mike Rowe said it, so...
It's really sad to hear a lot of the friends that I graduated with are now doing 'shotgun blasts' in their local area with what they have on their resumes. Many of them are just rather stressed about what the Hell to do. What seems worse is that they have to compromise what they wanted in order to just be employed.
[QUOTE=Angus725;48912932]To be fair, there are a few cases that contribute to that large multi-million figure.
1. Non-useful degrees; The employability of several humanities/social studies degrees are questionable at best. An example? Poor Philosophy degree dude up here. (Political Science? etc)
2. Degrees with unstable employment; music degrees, arts, drama degrees fall in this category. They are somewhat talent based, and those who don't have the talent for it, cant make it. Is it their fault? Sort of. But who's going to watch a movie with a poor cast, poor script, and poor director?
3. Shitty schools. You got a degree! It's from a college no-one has ever heard of! What did you learn? Not a whole lot more than highschool! Great, you get the same job a highschool student could do.
4. Partying, drugs, not doing a whole lot in college. You got your degree. Your GPA can be rounded down to 0 pretty easily, you've managed to attend... what class was it? Will you hire someone whose obviously shown no effort at school? Maybe. If they had a great resume, sure. But, if they had a great resume, why did they go to school at all... couldn't they have just party'd without spending tuition?
You could probably list out a bunch more, but these come to the top of my head right now.[/QUOTE]
Put simply, it's educational inflation. If everyone has a degree, a degree is nothing. Similar thing happening over in the UK, the uni's don't care, nor do the government since it's a free £27,000 for everyone fed through the meat grinder.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48915324]Mhmm, the sweeping national economic studies into the increasing costs and necessities of progressively less valuable higher education are bunk. The TRUTH is just that lazy kids these days don't want to work. Bill Maher and Mike Rowe said it, so...[/QUOTE]
That's not what Mike is saying at all though. If anything Mike would tell you [I]not[/I] to go to college if you don't know why you're going because its expensive and less valuable. What Mike is saying is there's a whole area of well-paying jobs that society has labeled unattractive in order to increase university attendance. Society has told everyone in the past 50 years that if you're not a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or finance guy, that you're going to be blue-collar bum.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-hV25y-yQc[/media]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9Ved560aA[/media]
Mike Rowe's non-profit gives out millions in scholarships to kids that want to get into trade schools. What Mike advocates is not that kids are lazy and don't want to work, it's that kids that don't know what they want to do (mostly everyone at some point) are going to 4 year college because that's what they been told to do, and racking up massive student debt. Mike's trying to get young people out of that avenue and into the less glamorous jobs that pay well and require maybe a 2 year degree or a trade school.
[quote]The mikeroweWORKS Foundation promotes hard work and supports the skilled trades in a variety of areas. We award scholarships to men and women who have demonstrated an interest in and an aptitude for mastering a specific trade. The mikeroweWORKS Foundation is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
The Foundation’s focus is on supporting the specific skilled trades that help close the Country’s skills gap and those that represent the significant bulk of our unfilled jobs
The Foundation has participated in more than $2.5 million awarded in scholarships to schools around the country, including Midwest Technical Institute, Tulsa Welding School, The Refrigeration School and Universal Technical Institute.[/quote]
[url]http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/[/url]
The poster he was referring to:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/jgvL2I1.jpg[/img]
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
I read [url=http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=18991]an article[/url] recently about how Universities are supporting their research that attracts the biggest grants and dropping the ones that get less money. University CEO's are having more and more of a business background. [I]University itself[/I] is a business, and there's a physical effort to make blue-collar work undesirable in order to get more university applicants. University is obviously necessary for STEM degrees, but there are a lot more options out there that pay just as well.
It's moments like these where I wished more schools pushed for cooperative employment and enhanced their relationships with employers. Not only does it give students valuable work experience, but if you pull your weight then a lot of those companies you worked for will literally start bidding against each other to hire you. Many of my classmates got their foot into the door by interning at SpaceX, GE, Tesla, Acura, etc. Hell, my friend even got to drive the new NSX on a test track at Acura, all while being paid for the semester long experience.
I find it amazing that most people nowadays don't know how to "network" or socialize in college. That there are guys giving speaks about how to "network" or gain contacts.
When I entered my uni last year, it was like if a guy from Seattle went to Uni in Massachusets, so as to say.
Nobody knew were my town was, as most people are from Capital Federal and I was completely alone, because nobody from my school decided to course in my Uni.
What I did to make friends was extremely simple and, really, very basic.
Whenever I was in class, I sat next to somebody who I liked or seemed like a friendly guy. And I would drop a line like "Hey, by chance, did you manage to do that exercise" and if he said "Yes" then I would ask him if he could explain it -> We talked and talked and came up as a friend/useful contact
Said no, I answered back "Geez, so hard? We got to find someone who knows or we could ask the teacher" we stil talked and talked and came up as a friend/useful contact.
If the guy is quiet or doesn't want to talk that much, then no loss, there are other 500 persons around to talk to.
If you add that to the fact that my university is EXTREMELY small (x<1000 students), everybody gets to know each other by last year. Even some students are invited to some professors' birthdays.
And then, when you are in need of help, you just send a whatsapp or call those who you think will help you, and you talk.
You ask.
You explain what's happening and how they could help.
Be it a job, be it some money for lunch, be it some notes for a subject, be it some room for staying one day. They will answer back, yes, no, or let me see if another friend can do it.
Of course. Don't be a prick. It's also taking and giving. When they call you for help, you better be there, because there's nothing worse than coming off as a leech who doesn't want to lend a hand.
EDIT: And you don't also need to internships. Some professors must have worked at some place or another, and they could also give you a hand.
Of course, again, don't be a prick.
Don't show up late, don't sleep in class, do the homework, show you care.
Because if you show you care and are giving the 100%, they will notice and appreciate it.
There's nothing worse than teaching some complicated subject such as Game Theory which is totally optional in my uni, and having a guy sleeping from the beggining until the end. However, if you have narcolepsy, talk it, and show you put an effort when at home.
That's how a proffesor saved me from starting over an annual subject.
Head of Math department didn't want to give me 2 points to approve (min 40. 38/100 in 4th and last exam) when I had an average of 85 (average for whole class was 50-60) and crashed with my car the day before. I emailed her telling her my situation, and she emailed back the whole math department asking me for one more chance.
[QUOTE=OvB;48915606]That's not what Mike is saying at all though. If anything Mike would tell you [I]not[/I] to go to college if you don't know why you're going because its expensive and less valuable. What Mike is saying is there's a whole area of well-paying jobs that society has labeled unattractive in order to increase university attendance. Society has told everyone in the past 50 years that if you're not a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or finance guy, that you're going to be blue-collar bum.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-hV25y-yQc[/media]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9Ved560aA[/media]
Mike Rowe's non-profit gives out millions in scholarships to kids that want to get into trade schools. What Mike advocates is not that kids are lazy and don't want to work, it's that kids that don't know what they want to do (mostly everyone at some point) are going to 4 year college because that's what they been told to do, and racking up massive student debt. Mike's trying to get young people out of that avenue and into the less glamorous jobs that pay well and require maybe a 2 year degree or a trade school.
[url]http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/[/url]
The poster he was referring to:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/jgvL2I1.jpg[/img]
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
I read [url=http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=18991]an article[/url] recently about how Universities are supporting their research that attracts the biggest grants and dropping the ones that get less money. University CEO's are having more and more of a business background. [I]University itself[/I] is a business, and there's a physical effort to make blue-collar work undesirable in order to get more university applicants. University is obviously necessary for STEM degrees, but there are a lot more options out there that pay just as well.[/QUOTE]
It would seem that I misunderstood his message. Gotta admit, the second I saw Bill Maher, I was dubious. Guy represents a lot of concepts that I strongly disagree with. Thanks for providing such a concise summary of Rowe's argument. In this light I can definitely see where he's coming from, and am inclined to agree.
My stepmom wanted to go back to school to get an associate's degree in business. She realized she didn't have the time or credits to go for business but she had the credits to go for art. I told her "Absolutely do not get an art degree". She said "it's not about what you study, it's about having a certificate that shows that you're reliable". This is how the boomer generation thinks degrees work.
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
Also many people are talking about trade school but the downside to that is that you have to go to trade school
Getting an art degree is almost always a death sentence unless you're going to a prestigious art college like CalArts, if you're already well established in the art business, or if you're going for your teaching certificate.
Else, you're at the mercy of the art industry which is callous, elitist, and jobs are extremely scarce unless you know people.
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;48909691]Go fuck yourself.
I spent four years crimping on expenses so I could get a degree in Philosophy-Pre-Law (because that's where I had the highest grades and proficiencies) to get [I]any[/I] job, and there aren't any jobs. Any. For anyone.
What? Should I have studied CS and programming so I could not have a job? Or applied math and engineering and not had a job? How about business and accounting so I could tell you the rate I'm losing money at?
Sincerely, go fuck yourself and your 'got mine why can't you get yours' attitude. That's why HR and hirerers are bleeding us for degrees anyways. Can't even work in the fucking cotton mill up north without a degree.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("flaming/calm down" - OvB))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Well if you studied philosophy prelaw, I think the expectation would be that you then go to law school
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48915950]Well if you studied philosophy prelaw, I think the expectation would be that you then go to law school[/QUOTE]
Theres a level of irony with a degree program called "Philosophy Pre-law"
[QUOTE=Code3Response;48916099]Theres a level of irony with a degree program called "Philosophy Pre-law"[/QUOTE]
Philosophy students score highest on law school entrance exams.
[QUOTE=OvB;48915606]
The poster he was referring to:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/jgvL2I1.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
This poster is really funny in a sense that on the right the guy has a job and earns money, guy on the left has a degree but no signs he is earning any money at this point.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;48916099]Theres a level of irony with a degree program called "Philosophy Pre-law"[/QUOTE]
Are ethics of value?
Who came up with ethics?
Is philosophy of value?
Is critical thinking as taught by philosophy of value?
People love to make fun of philosophy but I don't think they have any concept of its importance to their own lives
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48916153]This poster is really funny in a sense that on the right the guy has a job and earns money, guy on the left has a degree but no signs he is earning any money at this point.[/QUOTE]
Which is why Mike made this:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/WL7HqlP.png[/img]
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48915803]It would seem that I misunderstood his message. Gotta admit, the second I saw Bill Maher, I was dubious. Guy represents a lot of concepts that I strongly disagree with. Thanks for providing such a concise summary of Rowe's argument. In this light I can definitely see where he's coming from, and am inclined to agree.[/QUOTE]
Mike Rowe is a swell guy. I don't agree with everything he says, but I agree with a lot of it. He posts a lot on his Facebook. Typically an ad for his show or a response to a critic or fan. He's a gifted writer and speaker. Very eloquent, almost philosophical.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48913297]Answer me this really simply
Is knowledge unrelated to work worthless?[/QUOTE]
Yes. When working you need only that knowledge which directly and indirectly covers your working expertise.
If you want additional knowledge to be an overall more smarter person, then you're an idiot to get a philosophy degree just because. Instead just read books and find people in a some sort....of a philosophy club? to discuss philosophy, you do not need a degree to gain knowledge.
[QUOTE=OvB;48916272]Which is why Mike made this:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WL7HqlP.png[/IMG]
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
Mike Rowe is a swell guy. I don't agree with everything he says, but I agree with a lot of it. He posts a lot on his Facebook. Typically an ad for his show or a response to a critic or fan. He's a gifted writer and speaker. Very eloquent, almost philosophical.[/QUOTE]
Mike Rowe is still piece of shit, his idea of work is essentially slavery where workers barely have any rights. It might be how things essentially are, but the way he pretends it's a virtue is retarded.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;48916664]Yes. When working you need only that knowledge which directly and indirectly covers your working expertise.
If you want additional knowledge to be an overall more smarter person, then you're an idiot to get a philosophy degree just because. Instead just read books and find people in a some sort....of a philosophy club? to discuss philosophy, you do not need a degree to gain knowledge.[/QUOTE]
If only reading books was as effective as that.
Should only the rich have non job related knowledge?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48917215]Mike Rowe is still piece of shit, his idea of work is essentially slavery where workers barely have any rights. It might be how things essentially are, but the way he pretends it's a virtue is retarded.[/QUOTE]
where is this coming from?
that one article from that one website that insinuates he is a bad person because he doesn't selflessly ride into the winter palace on a tractor and declare soyuz?
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;48915324]Mhmm, the sweeping national economic studies into the increasing costs and necessities of progressively less valuable higher education are bunk. The TRUTH is just that lazy kids these days don't want to work. Bill Maher and Mike Rowe said it, so...[/QUOTE]
and then this
maher is now suddenly bill o reilly because he doesnt like muslims and ritalin?
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;48918904]where is this coming from?
that one article from that one website that insinuates he is a bad person because he doesn't selflessly ride into the winter palace on a tractor and declare soyuz?
[editline]16th October 2015[/editline]
[/QUOTE]
No it's coming from the sweat pledge thing he wrote which says that workers should never complain and should be willing to do literally anything to please their employer, regardless of how ridiculous the employers expectations are.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48919633]No it's coming from the sweat pledge thing he wrote which says that workers should never complain and should be willing to do literally anything to please their employer, regardless of how ridiculous the employers expectations are.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=[URL="http://profoundlydisconnected.com/skill-work-ethic-arent-taboo/"]http://profoundlydisconnected.com/skill-work-ethic-arent-taboo[/URL]/]Buy your own S.W.E.A.T. Pledge poster here at The Shop
“THE S.W.E.A.T. PLEDGE”
(Skill & Work Ethic Aren’t Taboo)
1. I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful.
2. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that “happiness” and the “pursuit of happiness” are not the same thing.
3. I believe there is no such thing as a “bad job.” I believe that all jobs are opportunities, and it’s up to me to make the best of them.
4. I do not “follow my passion.” I bring it with me. I believe that any job can be done with passion and enthusiasm.
5. I deplore debt, and do all I can to avoid it. I would rather live in a tent and eat beans than borrow money to pay for a lifestyle I can’t afford.
6. I believe that my safety is my responsibility. I understand that being in “compliance” does not necessarily mean I’m out of danger.
7. I believe the best way to distinguish myself at work is to show up early, stay late, and cheerfully volunteer for every crappy task there is.
8. I believe the most annoying sounds in the world are whining and complaining. I will never make them. If I am unhappy in my work, I will either find a new job, or find a way to be happy.
9. I believe that my education is my responsibility, and absolutely critical to my success. I am resolved to learn as much as I can from whatever source is available to me. I will never stop learning, and understand that library cards are free.
10. I believe that I am a product of my choices – not my circumstances. I will never blame anyone for my shortcomings or the challenges I face. And I will never accept the credit for something I didn’t do.
11. I understand the world is not fair, and I’m OK with that. I do not resent the success of others.
12. I believe that all people are created equal. I also believe that all people make choices. Some choose to be lazy. Some choose to sleep in. I choose to work my butt off.
On my honor, I hereby affirm the above statements to be an accurate summation of my personal worldview. I promise to live by them.[/QUOTE]
this thing?
I mean that shits definitely not for me. If I hadn't complained to my boss "No I won't climb up that 60 foot pole without any harnessing equipment to hang a 20 lbs light" I would likely have fallen and died.
And reading books is great and all, and we should all do it more, but no one cares, and it doesn't help you get a job ever and if you can't apply knowledge you read from a book, what good was it? You can learn to run a business from a book, but you'll most likely need some help down the road is my guess.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48919670]1. I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time... I live in America.
[/QUOTE]
Makes me laugh every time I see it
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;48919633]No it's coming from the sweat pledge thing he wrote which says that workers should never complain and should be willing to do literally anything to please their employer, regardless of how ridiculous the employers expectations are.[/QUOTE]
Mike Rowe isn't telling people they should be slaves and work in unsafe conditions at all. The sweat pledge is about being responsible for yourself and your actions. Mike Rowe isn't a "piece of shit."
[QUOTE=OvB;48919762]Mike Rowe isn't telling people they should be slaves and work in unsafe conditions at all. The sweat pledge is about being responsible for yourself and your actions. Mike Rowe isn't a "piece of shit."[/QUOTE]
But that ignores the fact that peoples lives are largely affected by their circumstances and not necessarily their choices. It's some serious just world fallacy shit that's often used to unfairly demonise the unfortunate.
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