• Kojima: MGS 5 characters to be 'more erotic' to encourage cosplay
    184 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;42085813]He sounded like an idiot but he didn't resort to racism. [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] It's Quiet... nobody seems to remember her name.[/QUOTE] I was about to comment on that, seems like people only remember the tits.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42085641]well it does if you dont want to seem like a fucking schizo spaz ranting about shit[/QUOTE] hurling argument debate into the aether isn't a new thing, we all know where anything related to this goes and half the posts here are ranting about some shit. of course rather than picking up on the bait you'd prefer to call the person a paranoid spaz, nice job.
Honestly I find behavior to have a lot more potential to make characters erotic. Bigger 3D boobs just don't really work.
[QUOTE=acds;42085349]So how long before all the assmad feminists jump on this, while as always completely ignoring the other side? Like oh I don't know, Raiden being specifically made to cater to females and having an entire section of the game where you cartwheel around completely naked?[/QUOTE] why are you trying to start a discussion about something that you obviously don't want to have a discussion about? [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] also kojima give me full uncensored snake pounding action or i'm not buying your game
[QUOTE=Generic Monk;42085957]why are you trying to start a discussion about something that you obviously don't want to have a discussion about? [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] also kojima give me full uncensored snake pounding action or i'm not buying your game[/QUOTE] I don't want to start a shitflinging fest about what feminism is or isn't (hence why I snipped the other post), but I will happily stand for what I said. My point is I'd be fine with people complaining about sexualized characters (I'd still disagree mostly), what does tick me off is when some people (you know the ones, in the gaming press too) jump on this screaming misogyny, but not a peep when Marcus Fenix has thumb muscles larger than my head, or Raiden cartwheeling his naked ass on my screen. Heck I don't really like the idea of him sexualizing characters on purpose, nothing wrong with practical stuff (bodyglove-like clothing for example can be just that) or characters being good looking, but when I see a woman with a giant sniper rifle and a thong I can't really take that seriously. However it's the fact that some people only focus on sexualization of women that bothers me. [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;42085641]well it does if you dont want to seem like a fucking schizo spaz ranting about shit[/QUOTE] Not really, considering it's directly related to the thread topic. Also that's a bit rich considering half of your posts in SH are "uhm no", "thats not at all right" or "what's that even supposed to mean" posts dripping of "I'm too good to even respond or put a sliver of effort in replying so I'll just fake naivety" ego.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;42085891]hurling argument debate into the aether isn't a new thing, we all know where anything related to this goes and half the posts here are ranting about some shit. of course rather than picking up on the bait you'd prefer to call the person a paranoid spaz, nice job.[/QUOTE] aether? thats a nice word [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=acds;42086025]However it's the fact that some people only focus on sexualization of women that bothers me.[/QUOTE] so you do want to have a discussion about it i could tell you right now that marcus fenix having big muscles is not a sexualisation but an empowerment fantasy. and when MGS2 was released people complained constantly about the oversexualisation of Raiden. oversexualisation of men is considered taboo in western games, ergo its pointless to criticise it because its commonplace to criticize it. however oversexualisation of women is not taboo and rather widespread. [QUOTE=acds;42086025]Also that's a bit rich considering half of your posts in SH are "uhm no", "thats not at all right" or "what's that even supposed to mean" posts dripping of "I'm too good to even respond or put a sliver of effort in replying so I'll just fake naivety" ego.[/QUOTE] fake naivety? i don't know what youre talking aboutt
I still don't see the point in the outrage from people of the US when it comes to stuff like misogyny coming out of Japan. It's a completely different culture, a completely different way of living with ideals that are accepted that as someone who has been born, raised and educated in the US that have never been considered or looked at.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;42086201]I still don't see the point in the outrage from people of the US when it comes to stuff like misogyny coming out of Japan. It's a completely different culture, a completely different way of living with ideals that are accepted that as someone who has been born, raised and educated in the US that have never been considered or looked at.[/QUOTE] so by that logic women not being allowed to drive in saudi arabia is perfectly justifiable because it's tradition? uh
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086138] so you do want to have a discussion about it i could tell you right now that marcus fenix having big muscles is not a sexualisation but an empowerment fantasy. and when MGS2 was released people complained constantly about the oversexualisation of Raiden. oversexualisation of men is considered taboo in western games, ergo its pointless to criticise it because its commonplace to criticize it. however oversexualisation of women is not taboo and rather widespread. [/QUOTE] Yeah that's the thing. Apparently being good looking and a prime choice for sexual reproduction is a power fantasy for males, but misogyny for women. How is being the top 1% of the gene-pool not a female power fantasy? The very same was it's an empowerment fantasy for men to be attractive, it is an empowerment fantasy for women to be attractive. As for oversexualization of men isn't exactly taboo is it? GeoW, GoW, Starcraft 2, Bioshock Infinite, Splinter Cell, and just about 80% of games in the last 5 years have had Gruff McBuff the badass war hero as main character (and so where most other characters). Also sorry but if Fenix's giant bulging exposed muscles aren't sexualized, then neither are the giant tits of Soul Calibur female characters. It's a power fantasy for males, and a sexual fantasy for women. Same goes (but inverted) goes for female characters.
wat if womyn dont like teh musclesesd
[QUOTE=lintz;42086316]wat if womyn dont like teh musclesesd[/QUOTE] Most men don't like giant tits either (at least not as giant as they are in most games).
[QUOTE=acds;42086279]Yeah that's the thing. Apparently being good looking and a prime choice for sexual reproduction is a power fantasy for males, but misogyny for women. How is being the top 1% of the gene-pool not a female power fantasy? The very same was it's an empowerment fantasy for men to be attractive, it is an empowerment fantasy for women to be attractive.[/QUOTE] what are you talking about, how is marcus fenix at the top 1% of the gene pool that doesn't make any sense. marcus fenix isnt an attractive character he's an empowering character. he fits standards of masculinity in a hetero-male context, not standards of attractiveness in a hetero-female context. he's not there so that the game will sell to women, and if you think that then you severely misunderstand the nature of women's alienation when it comes to AAA titles. [QUOTE=acds;42086279]As for oversexualization of men isn't exactly taboo is it? GeoW, GoW, Starcraft 2, Bioshock Infinite, Splinter Cell, and just about 80% of games in the last 5 years have had Gruff McBuff the badass war hero as main character (and so where most other characters).[/QUOTE] "Gruff McBuff the badass war hero" exists because guys want to be him, not because women want to see him and sexualise him. even if there are women who enjoy that sort of image sexually, they certainly are not designed from that perspective while female characters are. theres a good reason for a dude to have muscles when hes fighting and killing stuff. there's no reason for a woman to have big tits or revealing clothing when shes fighting and killing stuff. ironically gears actually doesnt do too bad in this regard because the female characters do get to hold their own when it comes to design and plot context. [QUOTE=acds;42086279]Also sorry but if Fenix's giant bulging exposed muscles aren't sexualized, then neither are the giant tits of Soul Calibur female characters. It's a power fantasy for males, and a sexual fantasy for women. Same goes (but inverted) goes for female characters.[/QUOTE] you think the giant tits of soul calibur's female characters are a power fantasy for women never ever heard that one before [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=acds;42086333]Most men don't like giant tits either (at least not as giant as they are in most games).[/QUOTE] market research says you're wrong
[QUOTE=popbob;42084391]that's pretty fucked up, glad i've never played one of this creeps games.[/QUOTE] Funny thing, the sexualization is the last thing going through your mind when you play it. Unless you're playing the feminist version of Where's Waldo...
Blade Wolf X Metal Gear Ray panty shot confirmed
[QUOTE=dass;42086391]Funny thing, the sexualization is the last thing going through your mind when you play it. Unless you're playing the feminist version of Where's Waldo...[/QUOTE] uhh did you play any of the mgs' the sexy parts are pretty obvious whether its the smooth jazz, female soldiers giving ole snake the rubdown, or the boss' weird incestual relationship with naked snake
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086351]what are you talking about, how is marcus fenix at the top 1% of the gene pool that doesn't make any sense. marcus fenix isnt an attractive character he's an empowering character. he fits standards of masculinity in a hetero-male context, not standards of attractiveness in a hetero-female context. he's not there so that the game will sell to women, and if you think that then you severely misunderstand the nature of women's alienation when it comes to AAA titles. [/QUOTE] He is made to embody the alpha-male ideal. Strong, toned, skilled fighter, leader and very little emotion. That is what males are hardwired to strive for and what women are hardwired to crave. It's quite simply our ape instincts, which govern pretty much everything we do even if we don't like to admit it. As for alienated women, that is mainly because they don't quite enjoy chainsawing a screaming human in half while blood spurts all over, again males are hardwired for war, women aren't. [QUOTE=thisispain;42086351] "Gruff McBuff the badass war hero" exists because guys want to be him, not because women want to see him and sexualise him. even if there are women who enjoy that sort of image sexually, they certainly are not designed from that perspective while female characters are. theres a good reason for a dude to have muscles when hes fighting and killing stuff. there's no reason for a woman to have big tits or revealing clothing when shes fighting and killing stuff. ironically gears actually doesnt do too bad in this regard because the female characters do get to hold their own when it comes to design and plot context. [/QUOTE] These characters are designed by men and usually their power fantasy, that is completely true, however the male power fantasy is the female sexual fantasy. Men strive to be the female sexual fantasy and women strive to be the male sexual fantasy because our whole existence is based almost entirely on procreating, and while some things do deviate from that, the vast majority of what we do stems from that basic instinct. As for women being scantily clad with big tits while men are armoured with bulging muscles that too stems from instinct: Men are more attracted to the physical side of a woman, while women are attracted to the status/ability to provide for offspring. Women prefer Indiana Jones or Tony Stark to Gruff McBuff the half naked Marine (but that doesn't make it any less of a sexual fantasy, they just get turned on by different things). [QUOTE=thisispain;42086351] you think the giant tits of soul calibur's female characters are a power fantasy for women never ever heard that one before [/QUOTE] Never heard of anyone wanting to be as buff as Fenix either, unless we take into consideration 14 year olds on XBL. Also that's not what I said. [QUOTE=thisispain;42086351] market research says you're wrong[/QUOTE] Market research shows men like large tits, not gigantic balloon tits like in SC.
[QUOTE=acds;42086498]He is made to embody the alpha-male ideal. Strong, toned, skilled fighter, leader and very little emotion. That is what males are hardwired to strive for and what women are hardwired to crave. It's quite simply our ape instincts, which govern pretty much everything we do even if we don't like to admit it. As for alienated women, that is mainly because they don't quite enjoy chainsawing a screaming human in half while blood spurts all over, again males are hardwired for war, women aren't. [/QUOTE] oh its a "hardwired" argument how convenient, and apes too. youre confusing instincts and subconsciousness. dont ever mention that shit again until you understand the difference. instincts are small fixed action responses to stimuli, drives are the psychological concepts which relate to subconsciousness. apes have nothing to do with it. not to mention many women do not crave such things. we know that what women crave is largely circumstantial, and unrelated to videogames rofl just stop please [QUOTE=acds;42086498]These characters are designed by men and usually their power fantasy, that is completely true, however the male power fantasy is the female sexual fantasy. [/QUOTE] nope do your own field research, you'll find they dont overlap at all. females, especially younger ones which is what games target, overwhelmingly prefer less aggressively designed male characters. games which women buy more tend to contain a very different type of male character, see Link as an example. [QUOTE=acds;42086498]while women are attracted to the status/ability to provide for offspring. [/QUOTE] also completely false as proven by countless psychological studies but w/e [QUOTE=acds;42086498]Never heard of anyone wanting to be as buff as Fenix either, unless we take into consideration 14 year olds on XBL. Also that's not what I said.[/QUOTE] then what did you say? you made a comparison of marcus fenix as an empowerment fantasy and sexual fantasy to soul calibur's women with giant tits. what am i missing there. [QUOTE=acds;42086498]Market research shows men like large tits, not gigantic balloon tits like in SC.[/QUOTE] isnt this one of those hardwire things, or would that not be convenient to your argument?
takes a massive nerd to know one's needs.
[QUOTE=acds;42085349]So how long before all the assmad feminists jump on this, while as always completely ignoring the other side? Like oh I don't know, Raiden being specifically made to cater to females and having an entire section of the game where you cartwheel around completely naked?[/QUOTE] Seems like that idea went south very quickly. I'm actually trying to figure out what demographic Raiden was meant to cater to, the tokio hotel one?
so when can we expect patricia hernandez's article about how foul and deplorable this is
[QUOTE=wraithcat;42086682]Seems like that idea went south very quickly. I'm actually trying to figure out what demographic Raiden was meant to cater to, the tokio hotel one?[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen[/url]
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086601]also completely false as proven by countless psychological studies but w/e [/QUOTE] Nothing's proven false in psychology. There's plenty of studies that suggest women are attracted to men that are powerful, resourceful etc. Probably more for than against, but feel free to reply with a list of every study you can find on the subject. Anyways this whole argument hurts to read, why are we even debating whether Big Boss is every woman's sexual fantasy?
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;42086751]Nothing's proven false in psychology. There's plenty of studies that suggest women are attracted to men that are powerful, resourceful etc. Probably more for than against, but feel free to reply with a list of every study you can find on the subject. Anyways this whole argument hurts to read, why are we even debating whether Big Boss is every woman's sexual fantasy?[/QUOTE] that's a rather pedantic comment we know that for women theres a strong element of physical attraction, and not just status
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086733][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishōnen[/URL][/QUOTE] Ah different cultural sexual appeal. I guess I'm more than happy to grab some popcorn and enjoy watching the guys in expendables as do most people I know :P
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086767]that's a rather pedantic comment we know that for women theres a strong element of physical attraction, and not just status[/QUOTE] I never said exclusively.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086433]uhh did you play any of the mgs' the sexy parts are pretty obvious whether its the smooth jazz, female soldiers giving ole snake the rubdown, or the boss' weird incestual relationship with naked snake[/QUOTE] Yes, and yet I didn't really think about it (unless we're talking about EVA and stuff like that which was obvious) FROGS kick you back when you try to squeeze their crotch to incapacitate them.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086601]oh its a "hardwired" argument how convenient, and apes too. youre confusing instincts and subconsciousness. dont ever mention that shit again until you understand the difference. instincts are small fixed action responses to stimuli, drives are the psychological concepts which relate to subconsciousness. apes have nothing to do with it. not to mention many women do not crave such things. we know that what women crave is largely circumstantial, and unrelated to videogames rofl just stop please [/QUOTE] [quote]Instinct or innate behavior is the hypothetical inherent inclination of a living organism toward a particular complex behavior.[/quote] This is all about averages and the majority, there is always the exception to the rule, but yes women do indeed strive to attract an alpha male. Also note that the alpha male changes depending on situation. In our society it's more about power and influence, in the caveman days it was more important to be strong and a good fighter. Alpha male is quite simply the most apt at survival in the given situation (that said, there are very few situations where that isn't the usual alpha male stuff with muscles and great intelligence). As for what women crave, that is the whole point behind sexual fantasies, they are what other people want in a partner so yes, it is indeed related to what we are arguing. [QUOTE=thisispain;42086601] nope do your own field research, you'll find they dont overlap at all. females, especially younger ones which is what games target, overwhelmingly prefer less aggressively designed male characters. games which women buy more tend to contain a very different type of male character, see Link as an example. [/QUOTE] Have you noticed that the games with protagonists such as Link are in games that are less violent and gritty? Also how is Link not a alpha male? Great hero that slays monsters and saves the princess? Again women don't get turned on by the same things as men, they don't care as much about the physique, but that doesn't make it any less of a sexual fantasy. Also lets not drag in non-sexually mature age groups, yeah no wonder young girls aren't very interested in the gruff male protagonist. [QUOTE=thisispain;42086601] also completely false as proven by countless psychological studies but w/e [/QUOTE] There are even more studies linking human behaviour with our most basic instincts (read just about any book regarding evolution, sexual behaviours in humans and/or basic human instinct). Not to mention the whole thing about how it's the way the vast majority of animals work, we aren't exempt from the animal kingdom, studies on monkeys work for us too really. [QUOTE=thisispain;42086601] then what did you say? you made a comparison of marcus fenix as an empowerment fantasy and sexual fantasy to soul calibur's women with giant tits. what am i missing there. [/QUOTE] I meant neither are a serious sexual fantasy for the majority of adult humans. Fenix is too buff, and SC females have balloon tits. [QUOTE=thisispain;42086601] isnt this one of those hardwire things, or would that not be convenient to your argument?[/QUOTE] No, the brain isn't hardwired to like abnormal proportions. [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] Hell here's a whole batch of studies showing we still rely on caveman-era instincts and how we are very much determined by our evolution: [url]http://today.ttu.edu/2011/10/caveman-politics-instincts-play-role-in-our-decisions/[/url] [url]http://www.elainehatfield.com/ch50.pdf#4[/url] [url]http://www.pnas.org/content/104/42/16598.full[/url] A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion (this one especially argues that we are very much still monkeys).
Am I the only one who's disturbed that a thread about MGS has devolved into another anti-feminist anti-tumblr shit-flinging fest about sexuality? Honest to god who the fuck cares? [editline]5th September 2013[/editline] In the grim darkness of 2013, there are only retarded and unrelated debates. There is no peace amongst the threads, only an eternity of flaming and shitposts, and the laughter of thirsting assholes. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply?" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]
More? what the fuck was it before?!
The character is called Solid Snake, all I'm saying...
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