Kojima: MGS 5 characters to be 'more erotic' to encourage cosplay
184 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;42087819]Am I the only one who's disturbed that a thread about MGS has devolved into another anti-feminist anti-tumblr shit-flinging fest about sexuality? Honest to god who the fuck cares?
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
In the grim darkness of 2013, there are only retarded and unrelated debates. There is no peace amongst the threads, only an eternity of flaming and shitposts, and the laughter of thirsting assholes.[/QUOTE]
Are you really surprised? If an article has something to do with sexuality and video games, a feminism debate is inevitable. It's been like this for a while now.
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rossy167;42087932]The character is called Solid Snake, all I'm saying...[/QUOTE]
That joke has been made so many times that if a single grain of sand were to miraculously appear somewhere in the universe every time it has been uttered in one form or another, 97% of matter in the entire universe would be sand.
[QUOTE=tr00per7;42087866]More? what the fuck was it before?![/QUOTE]
i hope this is just kojima being weird but, if it's true, probably a transfer from feasible/ignorable themes to
[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/4f9764f9d53aa7dd5979a3d70bb65073/tumblr_moaks8xLdB1qlc867o1_500.png[/img]
full on bikini warriors. there had better be something missing here...
[QUOTE=thisispain;42086601]
also completely false as proven by countless psychological studies but w/e
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DSW13.pdf[/url]
"showing that judgments of physical attractiveness are strongly influenced by nonphysical factors. Females are more strongly influenced by nonphysical factors than males"
"More recent studies inspired by evolutionary psychology show that social status (Townsend & Levy, 1990) and prosocial orientation (Jensen-Campbell, West, & Graziano, 1995) enhance perception of physical attractiveness."
[url]http://www.wellingresearchlab.com/uploads/1/3/5/7/13572010/hill_et_al._2013.pdf[/url]
" Results indicate that dominance and the traits associated with it predict men’s mating success, but attractiveness and the traits associated with it do not."
" P]rior studies have typically focused on either female choice or male contests without attempting to quantify the relative contributions of these mechanisms to the total sexual selective pressure on a particular trait (Hunt, Breuker, Sadowski, & Moore, 2009). Second, to our knowledge, no study reporting relationships between a male trait and mating success has investigated whether these relationships were mediated by attractiveness or dominance. Third, most studies of sexual selection in men have measured success under female choice or male contests from limited information, such as body size, strength, or ratings of faces or voices made by strangers in the laboratory. Attractiveness and dominance have thus frequently been assessed devoid of relevant information, such as personality and intelligence, and in isolation from the complex webs of social relationships in which we live."
"Overall success under male contests (male acquaintance-rated dominance) predicted mating success, but success under female choice (female acquaintance-rated attractiveness) did not."
Not that you'll actually read either, but those are just two I've read among others. You can't just claim "countless studies" when you're full of shit.
oh wait my bad, evopysch, which is always bullshit whenever its convenient.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;42089569][url]http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DSW13.pdf[/url]
"showing that judgments of physical attractiveness are strongly influenced by nonphysical factors. Females are more strongly influenced by nonphysical factors than males"
"More recent studies inspired by evolutionary psychology show that social status (Townsend & Levy, 1990) and prosocial orientation (Jensen-Campbell, West, & Graziano, 1995) enhance perception of physical attractiveness."
[url]http://www.wellingresearchlab.com/uploads/1/3/5/7/13572010/hill_et_al._2013.pdf[/url]
" Results indicate that dominance and the traits associated with it predict men’s mating success, but attractiveness and the traits associated with it do not."
" P]rior studies have typically focused on either female choice or male contests without attempting to quantify the relative contributions of these mechanisms to the total sexual selective pressure on a particular trait (Hunt, Breuker, Sadowski, & Moore, 2009). Second, to our knowledge, no study reporting relationships between a male trait and mating success has investigated whether these relationships were mediated by attractiveness or dominance. Third, most studies of sexual selection in men have measured success under female choice or male contests from limited information, such as body size, strength, or ratings of faces or voices made by strangers in the laboratory. Attractiveness and dominance have thus frequently been assessed devoid of relevant information, such as personality and intelligence, and in isolation from the complex webs of social relationships in which we live."
"Overall success under male contests (male acquaintance-rated dominance) predicted mating success, but success under female choice (female acquaintance-rated attractiveness) did not."
Not that you'll actually read either, but those are just two I've read among others. You can't just claim "countless studies" when you're full of shit.
oh wait my bad, evopysch, which is always bullshit whenever its convenient.[/QUOTE]
youre getting ahead of yourself dude
the first study states that the perception of physical attraction is influenced by non-physical features, and tho there is a difference in importance of perception when it comes to gender, it doesn't trump the importance of physical attractiveness in either gender.
i never claimed the opposite, just that the persons claim that women didnt care about physical attraction but just social status was bullshit. the first study doesn't contradict me at all, so you might want to read it first before i say im not gonna read it :)
the second study youre cherry picking from and it doesn't support your point at all after i thoroughly read the discussion. that study seems to suggest that theres a strong inverse relationship IE attractiveness becomes more important when the male is less dominant which contradicts our previous understanding of how mating partners were chosen, not as you wanted it to claim, that physical attractiveness has no importance when it comes to sexual attraction.
so in retrospect that didnt really prove or disprove anything.
TO GO BACK TO THE POINT THAT I WAS MAKING,
women are not attracted to males in videogames that have (now were speaking in stupid evopsych speak) sociosexual traits, we know via countless studies that women are attracted to men's physical form just in studies testing for physical arousal.
so to say that the traits of big muscled men is a sexual fantasy for women is false because A, women are not attracted to such fantasies as is obvious by their lackluster response, and B, men that women do respond to show very different traits.
[editline]5th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=acds;42087260]
Have you noticed that the games with protagonists such as Link are in games that are less violent and gritty? Also how is Link not a alpha male? Great hero that slays monsters and saves the princess? Again women don't get turned on by the same things as men, they don't care as much about the physique, but that doesn't make it any less of a sexual fantasy. Also lets not drag in non-sexually mature age groups, yeah no wonder young girls aren't very interested in the gruff male protagonist.[/QUOTE]
they do care strongly about the physique which is why link is preferred over marcus fenix which is why i mentioned him in the first place.
and when i said young girls i meant "sexually mature" teenage girls.
if tumblr has taught me anything
all women are bisexual and physique is 50% of the story
TBH
the reason i think MGS hasn't been critisized much is that all of the female characters in MGS are very strong whilest being sexy, whilest all the male characters are also sexy, they're very vulnerable people and a lot of girls i know like a vulnerable sexy guy(but not irl(because vulnerable people are annoying to deal with irl(unless they're really hot)))
actually all the mgs characters are all vulnerable
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;42093541]TBH
the reason i think MGS hasn't been critisized much is that all of the female characters in MGS are very strong whilest being sexy, whilest all the male characters are also sexy, they're very vulnerable people and a lot of girls i know like a vulnerable sexy guy(but not irl(because vulnerable people are annoying to deal with irl(unless they're really hot)))
actually all the mgs characters are all vulnerable[/QUOTE]
It makes up for silly design with better characterization, yes.
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;42093541]TBH
the reason i think MGS hasn't been critisized much is that all of the female characters in MGS are very strong whilest being sexy, whilest all the male characters are also sexy, they're very vulnerable people and a lot of girls i know like a vulnerable sexy guy(but not irl(because vulnerable people are annoying to deal with irl(unless they're really hot)))
actually all the mgs characters are all vulnerable[/QUOTE]
No they aren't lol
Mistral is one of the easiest bosses in MGR
Sniper Wolf gets her shit handed to herself while you're fucking hidden shooting either rockets or bullets at her and laughing about it
Meryl is a tryhard newb for most of MGS
Fortune needs an electromagnetic field generator to actually be worth 2 damns in a fight
and The Boss gets her shit kicked in from her own student in a fisty cuffs fight
Everyone else you don't fight either dies or goes back to a rural town off the charts
Except Sunny.
She's building motherfucking space shuttles.
:v:
[QUOTE=dass;42093894]No they aren't lol
Mistral is one of the easiest bosses in MGR
Sniper Wolf gets her shit handed to herself while you're fucking hidden shooting either rockets or bullets at her and laughing about it
Meryl is a tryhard newb for most of MGS
Fortune needs an electromagnetic field generator to actually be worth 2 damns in a fight
and The Boss gets her shit kicked in from her own student in a fisty cuffs fight
Everyone else you don't fight either dies or goes back to a rural town off the charts
Except Sunny.
She's building motherfucking space shuttles.
:v:[/QUOTE]
psh that's physical strength though lol their emotional strength was strong enough to allow them to take the actions that they do in the game
snake does but he breaks in the end because he's more vulnerable than they all were
but overall all the characters in mgs were weak individuals written well
[QUOTE=dass;42093894]No they aren't lol
Mistral is one of the easiest bosses in MGR
Sniper Wolf gets her shit handed to herself while you're fucking hidden shooting either rockets or bullets at her and laughing about it
Meryl is a tryhard newb for most of MGS
Fortune needs an electromagnetic field generator to actually be worth 2 damns in a fight
and The Boss gets her shit kicked in from her own student in a fisty cuffs fight
Everyone else you don't fight either dies or goes back to a rural town off the charts
Except Sunny.
She's building motherfucking space shuttles.
:v:[/QUOTE]
The Boss was the biggest badass in MGS3, whatchu on.
The boss was one of the best characters in MGS3, and the natural progression to handing Naked Snake's ass on a platter to eventually dying in one of the most poetic scenes in the series for a cause she believed in willingly is more or less perfect for the game and themes.
Really?
If I hadn't played the MGS series already I'd be very mad at the above post, I recommend you at least [noparse][sp][/sp][/noparse] that.
[QUOTE=dass;42093894]No they aren't lol
Mistral is one of the easiest bosses in MGR
Sniper Wolf gets her shit handed to herself while you're fucking hidden shooting either rockets or bullets at her and laughing about it
Meryl is a tryhard newb for most of MGS
Fortune needs an electromagnetic field generator to actually be worth 2 damns in a fight
and The Boss gets her shit kicked in from her own student in a fisty cuffs fight
Everyone else you don't fight either dies or goes back to a rural town off the charts
Except Sunny.
She's building motherfucking space shuttles.
:v:[/QUOTE]
you're judging the strength of a character
based on their boss fights?
i... what? so for a strong female character they have to beat the main character and be undefeatable thus meaning you cant actually beat the game
i can't even tell if you're joking here
[QUOTE=PSI Guy;42094354]you're judging the strength of a character
based on their boss fights?
i... what? so for a strong female character they have to beat the main character and be undefeatable thus meaning you cant actually beat the game
i can't even tell if you're joking here[/QUOTE]
there's no shortage of people whose idea of doing the right thing is angry tumblr posts and heated message board debates, what did you expect
You guys didn't read the full post apparently, because you didn't see the ":v:" at the end, which is pretty much saying its a joke...
[QUOTE=dass;42094511]You guys didn't read the full post apparently, because you didn't see the ":v:" at the end, which is pretty much saying its a joke...[/QUOTE]
You expect too much from SH.
oh ok fair enough dass
anyways i wonder what explanation kojima is giving for quiet fighting in a bikini. i mean, if we do get an explanation besides "why the fuck not"
[QUOTE=PSI Guy;42096349]oh ok fair enough dass
anyways i wonder what explanation kojima is giving for quiet fighting in a bikini. i mean, if we do get an explanation besides "why the fuck not"[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't really like the idea of it generally, but the way Hideo Kojima has approached this (basically "BOOBS 'N ASS") just doesn't even make me mad.
Maybe it's because while they're pretty great games, they've never really struck as SERIOUS to me and this really isn't the first time we've seen erotic shit in Metal Gear Solid games.
[QUOTE=acds;42086279]Yeah that's the thing. Apparently being good looking and a prime choice for sexual reproduction is a power fantasy for males, but misogyny for women. How is being the top 1% of the gene-pool not a female power fantasy? The very same was it's an empowerment fantasy for men to be attractive, it is an empowerment fantasy for women to be attractive.
As for oversexualization of men isn't exactly taboo is it? GeoW, GoW, Starcraft 2, Bioshock Infinite, Splinter Cell, and just about 80% of games in the last 5 years have had Gruff McBuff the badass war hero as main character (and so where most other characters).
Also sorry but if Fenix's giant bulging exposed muscles aren't sexualized, then neither are the giant tits of Soul Calibur female characters. It's a power fantasy for males, and a sexual fantasy for women. Same goes (but inverted) goes for female characters.[/QUOTE]
Here's the same man on both covers.
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3797350/hosting/2013-09/2013-09-06_14-52-43.png[/img]
On one side he's marketed to men, on the other to women.
I'll let you guess which side is which!
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42096911]Here's the same man on both covers.
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3797350/hosting/2013-09/2013-09-06_14-52-43.png[/img]
On one side he's marketed to men, on the other to women.
I'll let you guess which side is which![/QUOTE]
To be fair the left magazine is about fitness and the right is about housekeeping. I don't even want to get into the argument. Just wanted to point it out.
Also
[t]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1scqr0WmV1qadku2o1_1280.jpg[/t]
Wait, Kojima considers this 'more sexy' as opposed to just wankbait?
Or good character design for a goddamn [b]sniper[/b]?
[img]http://nl.ign.com/pictures/articles/5844/98200.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=dass;42093894]No they aren't lol
Mistral is one of the easiest bosses in MGR
Sniper Wolf gets her shit handed to herself while you're fucking hidden shooting either rockets or bullets at her and laughing about it
Meryl is a tryhard newb for most of MGS
Fortune needs an electromagnetic field generator to actually be worth 2 damns in a fight
and The Boss gets her shit kicked in from her own student in a fisty cuffs fight
Everyone else you don't fight either dies or goes back to a rural town off the charts
Except Sunny.
She's building motherfucking space shuttles.
:v:[/QUOTE]
(Actual spoilers:) [sp]Fortune actually has powers and she saves everyone from getting bombed to hell in MGS2. Still, if you're saying they're weak due to their boss fights you could easily say the same about the men of Metal Gear. Big Boss got burnt to death with hairspray and a lighter.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;42096948]Wait, Kojima considers this 'more sexy' as opposed to just wankbait?
Or good character design for a goddamn [b]sniper[/b]?
[img]http://nl.ign.com/pictures/articles/5844/98200.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Someone in the thread said that she was [sp]The End's granddaughter and was basically living octocamo[/sp] or some shit like that.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;42096948]Wait, Kojima considers this 'more sexy' as opposed to just wankbait?
Or good character design for a goddamn [b]sniper[/b]?
[img]http://nl.ign.com/pictures/articles/5844/98200.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
whatcha saying? this is [I]obviously[/I] how all snipers look like in the military.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;42096948]Wait, Kojima considers this 'more sexy' as opposed to just wankbait?
Or good character design for a goddamn [b]sniper[/b]?
[img]http://nl.ign.com/pictures/articles/5844/98200.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I swear if thats the in-game model I'm gonna be disappointed.
As of the moment, yes.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;42096948]Wait, Kojima considers this 'more sexy' as opposed to just wankbait?
Or good character design for a goddamn [b]sniper[/b]?
[img]http://nl.ign.com/pictures/articles/5844/98200.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
ready for sniping or a day at the beach thats just being prepared for any combat or leisure situtation
They should at least give her some pants.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;42097095]whatcha saying? this is [I]obviously[/I] how all snipers look like in the military.[/QUOTE]
[I]"this is what happens when we let women into the military!"[/I]
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