[UK] Labour slashes Tory lead to just 5 points according to new poll
177 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Yuskolov123;52290229]Basic public services that are properly funded leading to a more prosperous country which benefits the majority?[/QUOTE]
You can be a socialist and not be a marxist. I'm a mild socialist in the way orwell was a mild socialist. But that doesn't mean i can't see that every possible facet of marxist thinking is wrong in the most profound and fundamental ways possible. That's two entirely separate topics frankly
[QUOTE=Morgen;52290254]Whatever his more wild theroies for the economy might be, they will be reined in. Labour support unions and higher wages pretty strongly. He would be replaced otherwise.[/QUOTE]
He appeared at a stalinst march, but he's still there. If that won't do it nothing will, which is why i feel it's a bit of an indictment of the party as a whole.
[QUOTE=Tacooo;52288904][media]https://twitter.com/DaveWardGS/status/869265740976844801[/media]
Seeing Boris trying to so hard to dodge questions is hilarious, they all must be terrified of losing now[/QUOTE]
The sad thing is, hordes of people will see this and say "Oh Boris, the lovable clown! He has silly hair! Look at that man trying to dodge his questions!" There are people who genuinely vote Tory because of Boris, and want him to be our Foreign Minister for the Brexit negotiations. Baffling.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;52290344]You can be a socialist and not be a marxist. I'm a mild socialist in the way orwell was a mild socialist. But that doesn't mean i can't see that every possible facet of marxist thinking is wrong in the most profound and fundamental ways possible. That's two entirely separate topics frankly
He appeared at a stalinst march, but he's still there. If that won't do it nothing will, which is why i feel it's a bit of an indictment of the party as a whole.[/QUOTE]
I dunno what you're worried about here but it's like you think he's gonna start turning us into some orthodox Marxist state. He's bound somewhat by the Manifesto pledges, bound by the Labour Party, bound by Parliament, and still has to answer to democracy. Jeremy Corbyn himself is a democratic socialist yet in practice here he's far from it.
you know i don't want to call it close so soon but god, even if Labour loses, Corbyn is a fucking paragon of strength. after [b]all the shit[/b] he's had since he was elected, his own party trying to fuck him in the ass, etc, the man has [B]just kept going[/B] like the Energizer Bernie. like, holy fuck. and at the age of [b]68[/b] too.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;52277301]Police and NHS cuts are one of the main reasons I [i]despise[/i] the Tories.
I made a post at the beginning of this year about crimes in my area that have been flatly ignored due to lack of resources, and the problem has only gotten worse since.
There was a stabbing in the narrow alleyway beside my flat a couple of months back, and a pretty serious one considering how much blood was pooling in the alley. Due to the fact we only have one or two ambulances running at any given time It took about 50 minutes for the ambulance to arrive and the police didn't arrive until early the next morning, and whoever came to clean it up came even later still.
I live at the bottom of a Co-op car park, right beside a law firm. There are CCTV cameras [i] everywhere [/i], I'm being filmed from 5 different angles the moment I walk out my front door, [i] there are cameras at both ends of the alleyway where the stabbing occurred[/i], and yet nobody was arrested for it, they "didn't have the resources" to investigate.
"Fund the police!" indeed.[/QUOTE]
You seem to live in some sort of alternative reality where shit keeps happening around you and people close to you.
Where are the hard facts and throbbing statistics?
I'm only seeing stories.
[QUOTE=Crumpet;52290547]I dunno what you're worried about here but it's like you think he's gonna start turning us into some orthodox Marxist state. He's bound somewhat by the Manifesto pledges, bound by the Labour Party, bound by Parliament, and still has to answer to democracy. Jeremy Corbyn himself is a democratic socialist yet in practice here he's far from it.[/QUOTE]
The point isn't that he would turn the country into a Marxist state. It's that if he truly believes in the works of Marx, then he clearly doesn't understand either economics or history, and therefore would would be profoundly unfit to manage the nations finances.
[QUOTE=The mouse;52290715]The point isn't that he would turn the country into a Marxist state. It's that if he truly believes in the works of Marx, then he clearly doesn't understand either economics or history, and therefore would would be profoundly unfit to manage the nations finances.[/QUOTE]
most of britains politicians don't know economics or history (especially history), so I don't think that really counts as something big against him
[QUOTE=The mouse;52290715]The point isn't that he would turn the country into a Marxist state. It's that if he truly believes in the works of Marx, then he clearly doesn't understand either economics or history, and therefore would would be profoundly unfit to manage the nations finances.[/QUOTE]
and the tories think austerity has worked and is sensible fiscal policy.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52290708]You seem to live in some sort of alternative reality where shit keeps happening around you and people close to you.
Where are the hard facts and throbbing statistics?
I'm only seeing stories.[/QUOTE]
Because anecdotes are totally irrelevant to discussion concerning changes to levels of support of our political parties, right? Our personal experiences inform our votes. Concerning crime, mine's been shittier than usual for the past few years. What can that be attributed to if not cuts to police and social welfare services?
[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;52290882]Because anecdotes are totally irrelevant to discussion concerning changes to levels of support of our political parties, right? Our personal experiences inform our votes. Concerning crime, mine's been shittier than usual for the past few years. What can that be attributed to if not cuts to police and social welfare services?[/QUOTE]
must be immigrants of course!!! /s
[QUOTE=The mouse;52290715]The point isn't that he would turn the country into a Marxist state. It's that if he truly believes in the works of Marx, then he clearly doesn't understand either economics or history, and therefore would would be profoundly unfit to manage the nations finances.[/QUOTE]
The conspiracist in me thinks you and UK Bohemian the same person, you seem to appear consistently around the same time after days of silence.
[QUOTE=Shadow801;52290949]The conspiracist in me thinks you and UK Bohemian the same person, you seem to appear consistently around the same time after days of silence.[/QUOTE]
They don't have anywhere near the same opinions really, from knowing both (and The mouse is actually an OK user). Like basically all conspiracy theories, you've kind of pulled this out of your ass.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52290708]You seem to live in some sort of alternative reality where shit keeps happening around you and people close to you.
Where are the hard facts and throbbing statistics?
I'm only seeing stories.[/QUOTE]
Not everything is a numbers game. Many of us don't live sheltered lives and rely on the police to keep us safe. Currently they do not have the resources to do so.
[editline]30th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52290954]They don't have anywhere near the same opinions really, from knowing both (and The mouse is actually an OK user). Like basically all conspiracy theories, you've kind of pulled this out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
Well at least I'm more consistent than Theresa May, I guess.
[editline]30th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52290708]You seem to live in some sort of alternative reality where shit keeps happening around you and people close to you.
Where are the hard facts and throbbing statistics?
I'm only seeing stories.[/QUOTE]
Also, by the way crime has rose by 9% between 2014 and 2015, unfortunately fact checker doesn't have later statistics.
This is partly due to changes in recording practices:
[quote]
There are two main measures of crime in England and Wales: the Crime Survey and police recorded crime. Labour has specified crimes recorded by the police—shown in the coloured bars on the chart above. Police recorded crime has risen 9% in the past year and has been trending upward since 2014.
But just because the numbers are going up doesn’t mean that crime is doing the same in reality.
There are longstanding problems with these statistics, which have in the past tended to tell us more about police recording practices than about trends in crime. They’re “not currently considered a reliable measure of trends in crime for most crime types”, according to official statisticians.
[/quote]
However there is also a genuine increase in homicide, knife crime etc.
[quote]
That said, experts say at least some of the recent rises are likely to be genuine.
The Office for National Statistics says that while the overall 9% bump is probably down to changes in how crimes are recorded, the recorded increases in homicide (hard to miscount), knife crime, and theft offences at least partly reflect a genuine rise in criminal activity.[/quote]
[url]https://fullfact.org/crime/crime-under-conservatives/[/url]
[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52290556]you know i don't want to call it close so soon but god, even if Labour loses, Corbyn is a fucking paragon of strength. after [b]all the shit[/b] he's had since he was elected, his own party trying to fuck him in the ass, etc, the man has [B]just kept going[/B] like the Energizer Bernie. like, holy fuck. and at the age of [b]68[/b] too.[/QUOTE]
That's not necessarily a good thing.
[QUOTE=David29;52290995]That's not necessarily a good thing.[/QUOTE]
Politicians don't like change. Jeremy is change. It was never expected to be easy.
Also I am far more inclined to want someone who has decades of experience fighting for real people in government, so in this case age is a very good thing.
[QUOTE=The mouse;52290715]The point isn't that he would turn the country into a Marxist state. It's that if he truly believes in the works of Marx, then he clearly doesn't understand either economics or history, and therefore would would be profoundly unfit to manage the nations finances.[/QUOTE]
This bizarre and transparent hyperbole isn't convincing anybody. It just makes it look like you don't know what you're talking about.
I mean...
Marxist state.
That sounds like an ironic joke but you're serious about it. Fascinating really. Marxist state.
I'll talk seriously with you but promise to stop using these silly arguements.
Labour investment bank idea is literally Keynesian. Literally.
Labour's increased public spending on NHS (technically just making up for the budget cuts by tories) isn't anything exceptionally socialist/communist/spooky buzzwordist - its social democratic at best.
Labour's re privatisation of the train services is pretty big but consider they were privatised to save money and provide better service. Now the private system is more expensive than ever (gov still heavily subsidise) and the service is generally shitty (apart from virgin which are consistently excellent but then are forced, due to monopoly laws, to give control over lines they've saved to other shitty companies). This is left wing but hardly marxist as you say. This is your only leg to stand on and with train fairs rising, constant lateness and high subsidies your leg is looking flimsy. Where the market fails the state steps in.
Labour's plans to enforce working standards on self employed peeps isn't marxist, its just common sense and compassionate. Frankly a loophole allowing people to work for shit in bad conditions shouldn't have existed int he first place.
Too many policies to go through. How about you tell us a policy which is "marxist".
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52291017]This bizarre and transparent hyperbole isn't convincing anybody. It just makes it look like you don't know what you're talking about.
[/QUOTE]
The whole thing baffles me too.
On the subject of virgin, I would disagree because virgin have been consistently very unhelpful to me and have charged extortionate prices for Newcastle to London tickets.
[QUOTE=Shadow801;52291026]The whole thing baffles me too.
On the subject of virgin, I would disagree because virgin have been consistently very unhelpful to me and have charged extortionate prices for Newcastle to London tickets.[/QUOTE]
The fare prices still raise faster than inflation and they still have high gov subsidies, this is true.
There was one instance of one of the virgin franchises investing loads into a service and improving it greatly, only to lose the contract to another company. Can't find which it was though. And while searching I could only find an example of where virgin had failed to meet its promises in the west coast service. lol.
It's ok though coz privatisation ALWAYS makes thing better right. :hammered:
We tried it. It failed to fix the problem. Re-nationalise. At least then all those profits the train companies make (despite subsidies) and send abroad can be reinvested into the country.
[sp]putting this here for hot headed big guys who talk about "b-but REAL privatisation has never been tried":
True the gov owns the lines, this actually helps great an environment for competition, franchies are forced to compete to get the contract. The alternative, allowing companies to make their own lines is impractical.
1) the cost and risk of making and maintaining a line makes it an unrealistic undertaking for most companies.
2) if a company did this they would have an effective monopoly, they could decide who uses the line and other companies wouldn't bother making lines since there wouldn't be enough money to justify it.
[/sp]
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52290708]You seem to live in some sort of reality
[/QUOTE]
Fixed that for you.
Not everyone is as sheltered as you obviously are. We actually have to deal with the effects of underfunded public services.
I think Ive said this before but these concerns seem very ephemeral to you, you don't experience them, so they might as well not actually happen.
So that leads me to ask, What even is the point of this post? You are claiming that I'm making this up? are you just concerned with political point scoring and nothing more? Or are you just trying to be unpleasant to me personally because I disagree with you politically? (again)
[editline]30th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shadow801;52290949]The conspiracist in me thinks you and UK Bohemian the same person, you seem to appear consistently around the same time after days of silence.[/QUOTE]
Nah, they definitely have different perspectives.
From what I can gather from reading their posts over the past few weeks, The Mouse doesn't even like the current bunch of Tories, and while he seems to have an incredibly off-putting "I'm alright jack" outlook on what they have been doing to the poor and the disabled- and while I obviously strongly disagree with him, he at least seems to have his own consistent political stance that he's capable of putting forward eloquently.
UK B just seems to repeat whatever he's read in The Sun that morning while being snarky to specific users he's decided he doesn't like and generating such incredible levels of irony that they possibly threaten the structure of the known universe.
[QUOTE=David29;52290995]That's not necessarily a good thing.[/QUOTE]
being able to take a beating and just keep fighting is a damned fucking good thing in this culture of turncoat whores and back-down davids.
I'm far from the UK but hearing all the shit may wants makes me want to fly over there, get the proper papers, and vote for labour just so I can enjoy watching may rightfully lose.
[QUOTE=Sombrero;52291512]I'm far from the UK but hearing all the shit may wants makes me want to fly over there, get the proper papers, and vote for labour just so I can enjoy watching may rightfully lose.[/QUOTE]
The snap election was called with the intention to consolidate power in advance of continued heinous shit. It'll be poetic justice if it backfires on them in the same way as brexit. If not, might as well bend ourselves over now.
So last night's "small business owner" who couldn't vote Labour because they want to get rid of zero hours contracts...
[url]https://companycheck.co.uk/director/908467388/MANEET--KAPOOR/financials[/url]
[QUOTE=Grizz;52291568]So last night's "small business owner" who couldn't vote Labour because they want to get rid of zero hours contracts...
[url]https://companycheck.co.uk/director/908467388/MANEET--KAPOOR/financials[/url][/QUOTE]
Fuck them. Zero contracts should be illegal. I know someone in Britain who is in serious financal trouble because they are on a zero hour contract. Zero sympathy for any business that uses them.
[QUOTE=Grizz;52291568]So last night's "small business owner" who couldn't vote Labour because they want to get rid of zero hours contracts...
[url]https://companycheck.co.uk/director/908467388/MANEET--KAPOOR/financials[/url][/QUOTE]
[media]http://twitter.com/AScribbledEagle/status/869279898787033089[/media]
there's more
Zero hour contracts are just total bullshit from my perspective. I get that they have merit for very particular types of people in some circumstances, but ive only ever experienced the exploitative ones.
Every time I'm on a job search site, everything in my area is either a below minimum wage apprenticeship (in something like bar work and fast food, where it's obvious the motivation is the ability to pay a lower wage, not to teach new employees the trade), an unpaid trainee program, or a zero hour contract.
How the fuck is anyone supposed to get stable employment when shit like this is allowed to go on?
[QUOTE=fulgrim;52291116]Fixed that for you.
Not everyone is as sheltered as you obviously are. We actually have to deal with the effects of underfunded public services.
I think Ive said this before but these concerns seem very ephemeral to you, you don't experience them, so they might as well not actually happen.
So that leads me to ask, What even is the point of this post? You are claiming that I'm making this up? are you just concerned with political point scoring and nothing more? Or are you just trying to be unpleasant to me personally because I disagree with you politically? (again)
[editline]30th May 2017[/editline]
Nah, they definitely have different perspectives.
From what I can gather from reading their posts over the past few weeks, The Mouse doesn't even like the current bunch of Tories, and while he seems to have an incredibly off-putting "I'm alright jack" outlook on what they have been doing to the poor and the disabled- and while I obviously strongly disagree with him, he at least seems to have his own consistent political stance that he's capable of putting forward eloquently.
UK B just seems to repeat whatever he's read in The Sun that morning while being snarky to specific users he's decided he doesn't like and generating such incredible levels of irony that they possibly threaten the structure of the known universe.[/QUOTE]
I just find it hard to swallow how many incidents seem to happen around you, if you feel I am being unpleasant for questioning your post then perhaps you should evaluate your own posting style.
You really should refrain from insults and accusation as it only shows [I]you[/I] up.
[editline]30th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52291471]being able to take a beating and just keep fighting is a damned fucking good thing in this culture of turncoat whores and back-down davids.[/QUOTE]
or plain ignorant.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;52291947]I just find it hard to swallow how many incidents seem to happen around you, if you feel I am being unpleasant for questioning your post then perhaps you should evaluate your own posting style.
You really should refrain from insults and accusation as it only shows [I]you[/I] up.
[editline]30th May 2017[/editline]
or plain ignorant.[/QUOTE]
He is probably just in touch with his community and lives in a working class city where these things are common place.
And everyone knows Co-op car parks are breeding grounds for crime and male prostitution.
[QUOTE=Turnips5;52291917][media]http://twitter.com/AScribbledEagle/status/869279898787033089[/media]
there's more[/QUOTE]
Thank you :v:
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52290954]They don't have anywhere near the same opinions really, from knowing both (and The mouse is actually an OK user). Like basically all conspiracy theories, you've kind of pulled this out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
True, although you don't [I]know[/I] me.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.