• Terry Jones denied entry into canada
    109 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;38000473]You do realize that dozens of muslim organizations in Canada preach every year about how they're going to take over our country by simply outnumbering us, right? Lots of groups get away with hate speech here. Calling this a victory is a bit misleading.[/QUOTE] They're like 1% of the country. gonna take a lot of orgies for that plan to work.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;37998907]This is just like when Ann Coulter was supposed to speak at Ottawa University. For a long time, no one gave a shit. Suddenly right before the event, a massive outcry erupts and the person is banned from speaking/entering the country. It's amazing because people like these two are largely ignored in Canada, and if no one had made this much noise I doubt anyone would have noticed or cared.[/QUOTE] Well, Canada is a country strongly for multiculturalism. Those who are notorious for expressing sentiments against multiculturalism or any identifiable minority are denied entry into Canada, especially if they plan to make public statements - If they were allowed entry into the country, when they started mouthing off, the government would be blamed for allowing them in. In a nutshell: We don't want any of that bullshit here. We've got enough of it home-grown already.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;37999887]Yeah, okay, I'm gonna fly over Harlem while screaming how niggers are ignorant cavemen who should all be executed in the streets by the clearly superior white race under the guise of free speech.[/QUOTE] go ahead, doesn't mean you won't be killed some angry black dudes [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=FlakAttack;38000473]You do realize that dozens of muslim organizations in Canada preach every year about how they're going to take over our country by simply outnumbering us, right? Lots of groups get away with hate speech here. Calling this a victory is a bit misleading.[/QUOTE] lol [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=laserguided;37999742]Its completely just, its what Canadians want.[/QUOTE] so because you want something, that makes whatever you want just k
[QUOTE=JerryK;38000801] so because you want something, that makes whatever you want just k[/QUOTE] An evangelical mormon wants to come into your house to talk about Jesus. You now have no right to bar him entry, it's unjust if you do just because you're not interested in hearing it.
[QUOTE=archangel125;38000845]A mormon wants to come into your house to talk about American Jesus. you now have no right to bar him entry, it's unjust if you do just because you're not interested in hearing it.[/QUOTE] so we're comparing a personal home to an entire country now?
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37999191]Pretty dumb that they can ban you from entering their country, purely because your opinions don't conform to theirs. I don't agree with anything Jones has too say, he's a massive ass hole, but banning him from speaking or entering in their country seems excessive.[/QUOTE] You can be ban for various of reasons. It's a country, they decide who gets in and out.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;37999887]Yeah, okay, I'm gonna fly over Harlem while screaming how niggers are ignorant cavemen who should all be executed in the streets by the clearly superior white race under the guise of free speech.[/QUOTE] and then that guy gets shot, and then people don't do that anymore problem solved
[QUOTE=JerryK;38000860]so we're comparing a personal home to an entire country now?[/QUOTE] The entire country espouses certain values that this particular gentleman is in opposition to. Canada doesn't allow members of neo-nazi groups into the country, so why should this be any different?
[QUOTE=archangel125;38001004]The entire country espouses certain values that this particular gentleman is in opposition to. Canada doesn't allow members of neo-nazi groups into the country, so why should this be any different?[/QUOTE] that's the point, they should be allowed it's called free speech [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] and it's awesome by the way
[QUOTE=JerryK;38001021]that's the point, they should be allowed it's called free speech [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] and it's awesome by the way[/QUOTE] Those residing in Canada are afforded the right to free speech. People permitted to enter Canada also have a right to free speech. Our borders, however, are not a democracy.
You should be able to say whatever the hell you want, even if it's dumb and bigoted or whatever. As long as I'm not physically harming someone or infringing their rights I should be able to say anything I want to. Anti-"hate speech" laws are well-intentioned but their vagueness and the fact that they're open to interpretation completely invalidates them. [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;38001185]Those residing in Canada are afforded the right to free speech. People permitted to enter Canada also have a right to free speech. Our borders, however, are not a democracy.[/QUOTE] That makes 0 sense
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;38001192] That makes 0 sense[/QUOTE] Allow me to explain it to you, then. The Government of Canada decides who enters our country. We don't allow just anyone in. And neither does the USA.
[QUOTE=JerryK;38001021]that's the point, they should be allowed it's called free speech [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] and it's awesome by the way[/QUOTE] It isn't and nobody but foreigners disagree with it afaik.
To further expand on what I'd been saying, consider this: When applying for a visa to visit another country, your criminal background is always considered. A Christian pastor burning a Quran would qualify as hate speech in our country because it targets a minority, and any reasonable person can understand that it would be likely to provoke an angry reaction and result in a breach of the peace. Therefore, by Canadian standards, Terry Jones is a criminal. It's right there in the Criminal Code of Canada. [quote]319. (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.[/quote]
[QUOTE=JerryK;38001021]that's the point, they should be allowed it's called free speech [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] and it's awesome by the way[/QUOTE] Preaching hate towards a group of people is illegal in Canada, which resulted in the country never having much of a KKK presence. I don't see how you could perceive this as a bad thing, when has public hate speech brought about anything good?
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37999620]Doesn't make it any less dumb or unjust.[/QUOTE] Oh, so it isn't dumb to go preaching out onto the streets, trying to incite people to riot or to direct themselves to commit crime against a specific member/group of our society? It isn't dumb to manipulate yourself to look like Christians, go and be provocative and make millions off of it? It's evil to do so, and I feel sorry for people who honestly believe these things and go around preaching it but the laws are in place to prevent these specific fuckheads who are detrimental to society and offering no redeeming factor to themselves or others through their vile work. It's just to keep this law in place and it's just to believe everyone is level-headed enough that they don't go spouting off bullshit propaganda to try and make someone turn on someone else.
[QUOTE=Habsburg;37999997][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rbHgj.gif[/IMG] Free speech has limits whether you like it or not.[/QUOTE] I understand what you're saying, but the way you're saying it seems very wrong to me.
The reason why we have this hate speech law so we treat everyone equally. Think of Canada as a communist country
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37999191]Pretty dumb that they can ban you from entering their country, purely because your opinions don't conform to theirs. I don't agree with anything Jones has too say, he's a massive ass hole, but banning him from speaking or entering in their country seems excessive.[/QUOTE] I think banning anything that creates backwards societal advancement is perfectly fine, sometimes censorship is good
[QUOTE=Keyblockor;38001496]Oh, so it isn't dumb to go preaching out onto the streets, trying to incite people to riot or to direct themselves to commit crime against a specific member/group of our society? It isn't dumb to manipulate yourself to look like Christians, go and be provocative and make millions off of it? It's evil to do so, and I feel sorry for people who honestly believe these things and go around preaching it but the laws are in place to prevent these specific fuckheads who are detrimental to society and offering no redeeming factor to themselves or others through their vile work. It's just to keep this law in place and it's just to believe everyone is level-headed enough that they don't go spouting off bullshit propaganda to try and make someone turn on someone else.[/QUOTE] It is dumb to do that, it's dumb to preach hate and want the nothing but death cast onto a minority. But that doesn't make it any less dumb to bar someone from entering a country based on their opinions alone. [editline]12th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Habsburg;38000557]They're like 1% of the country. gonna take a lot of orgies for that plan to work.[/QUOTE] And what % would Terry Jones or the WBC be if they entered the country? Theres not that many people that would buy into their bullshit.
[QUOTE=der_crow;38002010]I think banning anything that creates backwards societal advancement is perfectly fine, sometimes censorship is good[/QUOTE] Who are you to say what is backwards societal advancement and what is not. The whole reason the reasonable people in this thread are arguing this is because it sets a precedent. What is okay and what is not? Where is the line? And don't cry "SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT" either. It's a serious question. Where do you draw the line? What if it was a liberal comedian coming into canada that is known to rag on republicans? What if it's an atheist group who wants to come in and rally against religion? I'm sure you'd fine that acceptable and not "backwards societal advancement". So it is only what YOU agree with? The point of free speech is to let people of all races, political alignments, and religions, express their opinion as long as their not physically harming anyone. [B]Saying that it causes backlash, thus making it dangerous is bullshit.[/B] Hold the people who actually attack people and destroy things accountable. Don't oppress people's freedom of speech because you're afraid or don't agree with them. That's tyranny. Do I agree with this crackpot? No. Do I align myself with his political party or message? Hell no. I just know that suppressing people's freedom of speech is fucking wrong.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;37999620]Doesn't make it any less dumb or unjust.[/QUOTE] tbh people like you take the idea of free speech [I]too[/I] seriously. if you ask me, like any rights, there's nothing that literally guarantees your right to free speech - you can largely say what you want in developed countries because you're not hurting anyone. it's like a nicety that society affords you, and little more. I don't think you deserve that nicety if all you're going to spout is hatred against others. it's like a collective societal decision to disallow unnecessary, excessive verbal abuse. if you don't support that idea, you're free to move to the middle of nowhere and live by whatever uncivilized rules you want. and yes you can make the slippery slope argument about censorship I guess but I don't see it as being relevant in situations like this. whatever (these thoughts brought to you by a canadian)
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;38002503]Who are you to say what is backwards societal advancement and what is not. The whole reason the reasonable people in this thread are arguing this is because it sets a precedent. What is okay and what is not? Where is the line? And don't cry "SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT" either. It's a serious question. Where do you draw the line? What if it was a liberal comedian coming into canada that is known to rag on republicans? What if it's an atheist group who wants to come in and rally against religion? I'm sure you'd fine that acceptable and not "backwards societal advancement". So it is only what YOU agree with? The point of free speech is to let people of all races, political alignments, and religions, express their opinion as long as their not physically harming anyone. [B]Saying that it causes backlash, thus making it dangerous is bullshit.[/B] Hold the people who actually attack people and destroy things accountable. Don't oppress people's freedom of speech because you're afraid or don't agree with them. That's tyranny. Do I agree with this crackpot? No. Do I align myself with his political party or message? Hell no. I just know that suppressing people's freedom of speech is fucking wrong.[/QUOTE] I agree with what you're saying. Banning something because you don't agree with it is very wrong. I'd be up in arms if the Canadian government started classifying any incendiary talk as hate speech. What I AM arguing here is that it's well within the rights of the Canadian Government to bar people who are, in the eyes of Canadian Law, guilty of hate crimes, from entering the country. They did it to Fred Phelps, and they're doing it to this guy. They've got to be far more careful about what they criminally prosecute within the country itself, diverse as we are, but they can sure as hell keep the trash out. They're not suppressing him or oppressing him, he's free to continue his brand of crap in the USA.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;38002804]tbh people like you take the idea of free speech [I]too[/I] seriously. if you ask me, like any rights, there's nothing that literally guarantees your right to free speech - you can largely say what you want in developed countries because you're not hurting anyone. it's like a nicety that society affords you, and little more. I don't think you deserve that nicety if all you're going to spout is hatred against others. it's like a collective societal decision to disallow unnecessary, excessive verbal abuse. if you don't support that idea, you're free to move to the middle of nowhere and live by whatever uncivilized rules you want. and yes you can make the slippery slope argument about censorship I guess but I don't see it as being relevant in situations like this. whatever (these thoughts brought to you by a canadian)[/QUOTE] How can you take free speech "too seriously"? What other rights should people not take "seriously"? I'm curious. [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;38002809]I agree with what you're saying. Banning something because you don't agree with it is very wrong. I'd be up in arms if the Canadian government started classifying any incendiary talk as hate speech. What I AM arguing here is that it's well within the rights of the Canadian Government to bar people who are, in the eyes of Canadian Law, guilty of hate crimes, from entering the country. They did it to Fred Phelps, and they're doing it to this guy. They've got to be far more careful about what they criminally prosecute within the country itself, diverse as we are, but they can sure as hell keep the trash out. They're not suppressing him or oppressing him, he's free to continue his brand of crap in the USA.[/QUOTE] Yes, but the fact that it's even illegal in the country itself is what is so morally wrong. You might be happy with it, and that's fine for you I guess. I just hear way too many people who are Canadian, or who wish they were Canadian, praising the country saying that it's better than America and that people are more happy etc. Of course YOU'RE going to be happy, as long as you don't disagree with the majority, you're going to be well off and not have any problems. What about people who do though? Are they not people either? Do their rights just not matter? When you say things they don't agree with, you offend them too. You guys would fight tooth and nail for the right of healthcare, but you turn your back on something so simple as free speech. You want people to be treated equal? Then that means getting offended by assholes and bigots, or maybe just someone you don't agree with. Making it "hate speech" and fining people for it is just plain wrong and scary, and it isn't freedom.
For a second I thought it said Terry Crews. [IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xqUOLbg3EnM/UCT4dPzEf6I/AAAAAAAABZI/FFAc7GYzAeM/s1600/Terry-Crews-1.jpg[/IMG] I hear Canadians are terrified of him.
Crews needs to play a Klingon in the new Star Trek series. I'd fucking pay for that.
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;38002878]How can you take free speech "too seriously"? What other rights should people not take "seriously"? I'm curious. [editline]11th October 2012[/editline] Yes, but the fact that it's even illegal in the country itself is what is so morally wrong. You might be happy with it, and that's fine for you I guess. I just hear way too many people who are Canadian, or who wish they were Canadian, praising the country saying that it's better than America and that people are more happy etc. Of course YOU'RE going to be happy, as long as you don't disagree with the majority, you're going to be well off and not have any problems. What about people who do though? Are they not people either? Do their rights just not matter? When you say things they don't agree with, you offend them too. You guys would fight tooth and nail for the right of healthcare, but you turn your back on something so simple as free speech. You want people to be treated equal? Then that means getting offended by assholes and bigots, or maybe just someone you don't agree with. Making it "hate speech" and fining people for it is just plain wrong and scary, and it isn't freedom.[/QUOTE] Canada has free speech. That's what you're not getting. And people exercise their right to free speech all the time. I exercise my right to free speech all the time. But our society has no place for bigotry-motivated hate speech. I can criticize any religious institution I like and have no penalties leveled against me, but when it stops being a criticism and becomes a rabid rant, that's where the law draws the line. That's how it should be. You have no right to say what is morally right and what is not.
[QUOTE=archangel125;38003416]Canada has free speech. That's what you're not getting. And people exercise their right to free speech all the time. I exercise my right to free speech all the time. But our society has no place for bigotry-motivated hate speech. I can criticize any religious institution I like and have no penalties leveled against me, but when it stops being a criticism and becomes a rabid rant, that's where the law draws the line. That's how it should be. You have no right to say what is morally right and what is not.[/QUOTE] But you do I guess? Saying "That's how it should be"? And how is that free speech? That's limited speech. And what is considered a "Rant" then? When does criticism become a "rabid rant"?
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;38003523]But you do I guess? Saying "That's how it should be"? And how is that free speech? That's limited speech. And what is considered a "Rant" then? When does criticism become a "rabid rant"?[/QUOTE] I don't, either. I never did claim to have moral authority - Nor should you. But as a Canadian (And here is where many, if not all Canadians agree) I think that unless someone's got something worth saying, they ought to keep it to themselves. That's why Americans think Canadians are so polite. We won't waste the energy starting an argument with you if we think you're an idiot, we'll just smile and nod and find an excuse to get away. Canadians are not so pretty when they're angry, as you saw during the G20 riots.
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;38003523]But you do I guess? Saying "That's how it should be"? And how is that free speech? That's limited speech. And what is considered a "Rant" then? When does criticism become a "rabid rant"?[/QUOTE] If I tell you that you shouldn't have a right to exist and you need to die for your beliefs, that's crossing the fucking line.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.