For the record, Cuba was more of an authoritarian socialist nation than one going for communism, at least since the 80s, firstly and was definitely more Stalinist than anything most communists here consider to be communist.
And also, there have been situations where communism/marxist socialism as intended (by my belief) has worked, just simply not on large scale. [i]Yet[/i]. But we have this discussion every time communism comes up ever on here, and I'm honestly too tired of it to continue trying to point out how mislead people who think this is communism, and how communism will never work, and has tried and failed are etc.
All I can say is that we all can agree, I think, communist or not, that this is a good step in the right direction for Cuba.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29302474]Democratic Communism is impossible because Communism has no State.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect. Because of the lack of state, it's supposed ot run on a purely democratic society, firstly, and secondly, we all know that when people talk about communism, we're talking the socialist state that comes before communism, just because that's what everyone in the west is used to.
Click this:
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1053923-Economics-Question-Do-you-think-a-Communist-society-could-work?p=27694979&viewfull=1#post27694979[/url]
[QUOTE=amute;29302453]I'm honestly not suprised that you know jack-shit about communism, Boba. Jesus fucking christ, there is no totalitarian government in Communism.[/QUOTE]
A country cannot run without a government. In theory, Communism is not supposed to have one, but anyone with half a brain would instantly realize it would fail within days on a large scale.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29302569]A country cannot run without a government.[/QUOTE]
The idea is that by that point, the people will govern themselves.
cool
[QUOTE=Detective P;29302504]For the record, Cuba was more of an authoritarian socialist nation than one going for communism, at least since the 80s, firstly and was definitely more Stalinist than anything most communists here consider to be communist.
And also, there have been situations where communism/marxist socialism as intended (by my belief) has worked, just simply not on large scale. [i]Yet[/i]. But we have this discussion every time communism comes up ever on here, and I'm honestly too tired of it to continue trying to point out how mislead people who think this is communism, and how communism will never work, and has tried and failed are etc.
All I can say is that we all can agree, I think, communist or not, that this is a good step in the right direction for Cuba.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
Incorrect. Because of the lack of state, it's supposed ot run on a purely democratic society, firstly, and secondly, we all know that when people talk about communism, we're talking the socialist state that comes before communism, just because that's what everyone in the west is used to.[/QUOTE]
Certainly. They can become more Democratic without moving away from Socialism.
[QUOTE=Paravin;29301604]Too bad there has never been the good kind of communism.[/QUOTE]
I hate how people think "communism" is a totalitarian, absolutely state-ruled evil dictatorship. That certainly isn't what Marx wrote about. Cheers to Stalin for fucking everything up.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29302395]Socialism has some private ownership and a market based economy, where as Communism has no private ownership and complete government control of the entire economy.[/QUOTE]
it's not government control it's public control. if government controls the economy then it's not really communism
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;29301735]Working communism? That will never happen as long as there is greed in the world.[/QUOTE]
greed is socially taught, not natural
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29302714]I hate how people think "communism" is a totalitarian, absolutely state-ruled evil dictatorship. That certainly isn't what Marx wrote about. Cheers to Stalin for fucking everything up.[/QUOTE]
Communism always ends up as totalitarianism because it cannot exist it its pure form. Marx wrote about a fantasy.
[QUOTE=Nahyan;29301943]Castro has been out of power for a while. And quit flaming on him guys, Cuba is doing pretty good compared to its other Latin American counterparts. And the reason why Fidel was so paranoid was because there were 625 CIA assassination attempts on him. You know you are boss when you survived that many hits. Criticize the man all you want, he carried Cuba's ass and made sure no other US-backed dictator takes over and destroy their economy. Call him what you want, but he got shit done, that's why Cuba has one of the highest literacy rates in the world.[/QUOTE]
Yeah only the reason they studied so much was to get the fuck out of that shithole in the first place.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29302645]The idea is that by that point, the people will govern themselves.[/QUOTE]
So the government will be replaced by... people that govern?
Glad he stepped down, dude was a douche
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29302474]Democratic Communism is impossible because Communism has no State.[/QUOTE]
No that's Anarcho-collectivism.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29302771]it's not government control it's public control. if government controls the economy then it's not really communism
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
greed is socially taught, not natural[/QUOTE]
From a sociological standpoint, greed is a naturally occurring behavior.
Greed stems from the most basic principle of life: survival. Hoard food and things to yourself, and you will survive. Share things, and you will most likely fail.
Its learned evolutionarily. Somewhere down the line, humans began hoarding in great enough numbers that the body though hoarding = survival.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29302841]So the government will be replaced by... people that govern?[/QUOTE]
Everyone is supposed to govern, but it never works out that way.
Oh damn.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;29302841]So the government will be replaced by... people that govern?[/QUOTE]
It's calling being self sustaining.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29302569]A country cannot run without a government. In theory, Communism is not supposed to have one, but anyone with half a brain would instantly realize it would fail within days on a large scale.[/QUOTE]
A system of Workers democracy holds up the society, which works perfectly on a small scale, but no one can be sure how it works on a larger scale.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29302795]Communism always ends up as totalitarianism because it cannot exist it its pure form. Marx wrote about a fantasy.[/QUOTE]
Which is hilarious because you believe in the Free market.
But no, Communism has never even been tried before.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=F1101011;29302832]Yeah only the reason they studied so much was to get the fuck out of that shithole in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Not really.
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;29301601]Hopefully this will be the beginning of a new era in Cuba. Maybe something will happen with his brother that gets rid of communism and everybody can live in perfect democratic harmony.[/QUOTE]
too bad Raul is twice as fucked up.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;29302873]No that's Anarcho-collectivism.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
From a sociological standpoint, greed is a naturally occurring behavior.
Greed stems from the most basic principle of life: survival. Hoard food and things to yourself, and you will survive. Share things, and you will most likely fail.
Its learned evolutionarily. Somewhere down the line, humans began hoarding in great enough numbers that the body though hoarding = survival.[/QUOTE]
Greed has jack shit to do with survival. How many Cavemen CEO's do you know of?
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;29301601]Hopefully this will be the beginning of a new era in Cuba. Maybe something will happen with his brother that gets rid of communism and everybody can live in perfect democratic harmony.[/QUOTE]
Says the American. (just in case you didn't get it USA is a republic)
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29302795]Communism always ends up as totalitarianism because it cannot exist it its pure form. Marx wrote about a fantasy.[/QUOTE]
And that is different from any other ideology how exactly?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;29302771]
greed is socially taught, not natural[/QUOTE]
No.
[QUOTE=Mr. Sun;29301735]Working communism? That will never happen as long as there is greed in the world.[/QUOTE]
Working capitalism? That will never happen as long as there is greed in the world.
May not agree with his political stances, but he was quite a smart man, and he was pretty damn passionate about his beliefs. I respect him for it, but not for the bad things he did to his country. I think the Cold War fucked him over the most. He was a nationalist first and socialist second.
oh and by the way Fidel resigned from the Cuban presidency in 2008, he hasn't really been involved in Cuban politics since then except as leader of the Cuban Communist Party.
saying Fidel is (or was rather, since he gave Raul his only remaining political title) the President of Cuba is like saying Elizabeth May is Prime Minister of Canada.
[QUOTE=amute;29302966]A system of Workers democracy holds up the society, which works perfectly on a small scale, but no one can be sure how it works on a larger scale.[/QUOTE]
That's because it won't. It would have no way of organizing a professional army, passing laws, or distributing everything equally. Different areas of the country also have different amounts of natural resources, meaning that one area of a country would end up richer than another area, leading to conflict and dispute. The whole thing would fall apart on itself because it was designed it to work in a vacuum.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29303233]That's because it won't. It would have no way of organizing a professional army, passing laws, or distributing everything equally. Different areas of the country also have different amounts of natural resources, meaning that one area of a country would end up richer than another area, leading to conflict and dispute. The whole thing would fall apart on itself because it was designed it to work in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]
What? You seem to be thinking of a capitalism. Why wouldn't a communist country be able to organize a professional army?
Why would it fall apart on itself? Again, you are thinking of CAPITALISM.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;29303198]oh and by the way Fidel resigned from the Cuban presidency in 2008, he hasn't really been involved in Cuban politics since then except as leader of the Cuban Communist Party.
saying Fidel is (or was rather, since he gave Raul his only remaining political title) the President of Cuba is like saying Elizabeth May is Prime Minister of Canada.[/QUOTE]
The article says he stepped down as the leader of the CCP, no where does it imply that he was involved in politics.
[QUOTE=Lalelalala;29303320]What? You seem to be thinking of capitalism. Why wouldn't a communist country be able to organize a professional army?
Why would it fall apart on itself? Again, you are thinking of CAPITALISM.[/QUOTE]
Pure Capitalism existed during the 19th and early 20th centuries in a few countries. The United States is still mostly capitalist today, although we do have a few aspects of socialism.
[QUOTE=CjienX;29303330]The article says he stepped down as the leader of the CCP, no where does it imply that he was involved in politics.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about the article. a lot of people on the first page were acting like him stepping down was going to cause major change because (presumably) they think he was still president.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;29303495]I'm not talking about the article. a lot of people on the first page were acting like him stepping down was going to cause major change because (presumably) they think he was still president.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I probably should have added "from the CCP" to the title. I assumed that people know he hasn't been in power
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;29302055]Literacy rate is, quite frankly, unimpressive; most developed nations have stopped bothering to record it. The literacy rate list that UNESCO provides assumes a value of 99% for countries that don't report a literacy rate.[/QUOTE]
itn: Ethiopia has a 99% literacy rate
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=CjienX;29303548]Yeah, I probably should have added "from the CCP" to the title. I assumed that people know he hasn't been in power[/QUOTE]
most people for some reason don't know that. I was talking to someone a few days ago about Cuban politics and she thought Fidel Castro was still the President of Cuba.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
it might just be an American thing. Most Americans couldn't tell you who the current Queen of The Commonwealth realms is, or probably what that even means.
[quote]From a [b]sociological standpoint[/b], greed is a naturally occurring behavior.
Greed stems from the most basic principle of life: survival. Hoard food and things to yourself, and you will survive. Share things, and you will most likely fail.
Its learned evolutionarily. Somewhere down the line, humans began hoarding in great enough numbers that the body though hoarding = survival.[/QUOTE]
What? You can't just put the word "sociology" or its derivatives in an argument to make it absolutely accurate.
There are [i]multiple[/i] sociological perspectives, many of which would definitely disagree with what you just stated.
[QUOTE=Detective P;29302504]Incorrect. Because of the lack of state, it's supposed ot run on a purely democratic society[/QUOTE]
A lack of a state is not democracy, it is anarchy. For a democracy to exist there must be a governmental infrastructure to enforce decisions and organise votes. If there is no state, there is only anarchy.
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