[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29303763]A lack of a state is not democracy, it is anarchy. For a democracy to exist there must be a governmental infrastructure to enforce decisions and organise votes. If there is no state, there is only anarchy.[/QUOTE]I don't see why democracy can't exist in an anarchy, if it's the people that enforce the decisions and not the state.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29303343]Pure Capitalism existed during the 19th and early 20th centuries in a few countries. The United States is still mostly capitalist today, although we do have a few aspects of socialism.[/QUOTE]
And look how that worked out.
The most polluted atmosphere in human history, tens of thousands of deaths and even more injuries, child workers, widespread poverty, urban sprawl, greed and corruption.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29303850]I don't see why democracy can't exist in an anarchy, if it's the people that enforce the decisions and not the state.[/QUOTE]
anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29302714]I hate how people think "communism" is a totalitarian, absolutely state-ruled evil dictatorship. That certainly isn't what Marx wrote about. Cheers to Stalin for fucking everything up.[/QUOTE]
But Marx wrote that you'd need a revolution followed by a totalitarian state to implement Communism. If you didn't then you'd end up with most people rejecting your state and creating autonomous farms or small states based on the barter system and other proto-Capitalist systems. And then once you took the State away that'd probably happen anyway. Communism isn't workable.
[QUOTE=CjienX;29303897]anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.[/QUOTE]
Communism assumes, however, that, although everyone will be free, they will all freely make the same choice.
[QUOTE=CjienX;29303897]anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.[/QUOTE]
But is the final form of communism really anarchy then? Because you do not have absolute freedom of the individual? Or do you but you won't use that freedom as you will be working towards the betterment for all?
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29303921]But Marx wrote that you'd need a revolution followed by a totalitarian state to implement Communism. If you didn't then you'd end up with most people rejecting your state and creating autonomous farms or small states based on the barter system and other proto-Capitalist systems. And then once you took the State away that'd probably happen anyway. Communism isn't workable.[/QUOTE]
That's not really what is implied here so I'm not sure by what source you inferred that
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_history#Capitalism[/url]
I guess you're referring to the dictatorship of the proletariat which, despite its wording, democratically plans production and resources of the planet so that the transition into true communism can occur.
[QUOTE=CjienX;29303897]anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.[/QUOTE]
We are discussing the ideology anarchism, not the state of a country.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29303233]That's because it won't. It would have no way of organizing a professional army, passing laws, or distributing everything equally. Different areas of the country also have different amounts of natural resources, meaning that one area of a country would end up richer than another area, leading to conflict and dispute. The whole thing would fall apart on itself because it was designed it to work in a vacuum.[/QUOTE]
Professional army as in made up of mainly or entirely professional personnel or one with at least a professional officer corps?
[QUOTE=CjienX;29303897]anarchy |ˈanərkē|
noun
a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority : he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy.
• absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.[/QUOTE]
Communism is a collective freedom, anarchy is individual freedom.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;29304086]Communism is a collective freedom, anarchy is individual freedom.[/QUOTE]
No, anarchy is the lack of a state. Communism is just a variance of anarchism.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29304293]No, anarchy is the lack of a state. Communism is just a variance of anarchism.[/QUOTE]
it was oversimplified sure but nothing was technically wrong with what I said
Ehh, as communism goes, Castro did alright. He was a pretty cool guy.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV2;29304340]it was oversimplified sure but nothing was technically wrong with what I said[/QUOTE]
But anarchism isn't necessarily individual freedom, it can be collective freedom too, i.e. communism.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;29303343]Pure Capitalism existed during the 19th and early 20th centuries in a few countries. [/QUOTE]
but that was much more atrocious for the working class wrt to robber barons and the total lack of workers rights
Why are we still not trading with them? Its not like they have nuclear missles there anymore.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29303850]I don't see why democracy can't exist in an anarchy, if it's the people that enforce the decisions and not the state.[/QUOTE]
exactly. anarchy doesn't mean that there's no organization, just no rigid government. organizations of people can still exist in an anarchist society so long as they are fluid and not dogmatic
[QUOTE=Bone Thugz;29304463]Why are we still not trading with them? Its not like they have nuclear missles there anymore.[/QUOTE]
Because American politicians act like children when they don't get their way.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29303962]That's not really what is implied here so I'm not sure by what source you inferred that
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_history#Capitalism[/url]
I guess you're referring to the dictatorship of the proletariat which, despite its wording, democratically plans production and resources of the planet so that the transition into true communism can occur.[/QUOTE]
i.e. theft. And there's still the "problem" of non-Communist societies springing up after the State is removed.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
The biggest problem with Communism is that our current system of governments and capitalism arose naturally from our society. Capitalists are not some sort of bogey men or alien invaders that warped our minds and made us all greedy hoarders. The trading of goods and services was one of the earliest technologies we developed. It's been a major part of civilisation for all of recorded history. If there is no dictatorial system [i]forcing[/i] people to be Communist then people will slip into a proto-Capitalist society.
"Communism" cannot work as long as it is applied to humanity.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29304583]The biggest problem with Communism is that our current system of governments and capitalism arose naturally from our society. Capitalists are not some sort of bogey men or alien invaders that warped our minds and made us all greedy hoarders. The trading of goods and services was one of the earliest technologies we developed. It's been a major part of civilisation for all of recorded history. If there is no dictatorial system [i]forcing[/i] people to be Communist then people will slip into a proto-Capitalist society.[/QUOTE]
Capitalism was an absolutely horrible, broken system when it was first implemented. We've spend the last hundred years or so trying to hammer out and fix its flaws.
We do not live in pure capitalistic societies. We never really have. Take the recent economic crisis, there was a huge amount of government intervention within the markets.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
Also this news is 5 years old.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;29305038]Also this news is 5 years old.[/QUOTE]
No. Read the article.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;29305038]Capitalism was an absolutely horrible, broken system when it was first implemented. We've spend the last hundred years or so trying to hammer out and fix its flaws.
We do not live in pure capitalistic societies. We never really have. Take the recent economic crisis, there was a huge amount of government intervention within the markets.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
Also this news is 5 years old.[/QUOTE]
He stepped down as the leader of the CCP, this was just published this morning.
He resigns. Officially.
But this entire thread has the spin that he's stepped down from power and how that's such a big thing, when he did this effectively 5 years ago.
[QUOTE=CaptainSnake;29301569]yay! too bad communism continues in cuba
and not the good kind of working communism. the bad kind of totalrism[/QUOTE]
You mean totalitarianism, right?
[QUOTE=Nahyan;29301943]Castro has been out of power for a while. And quit flaming on him guys, Cuba is doing pretty good compared to its other Latin American counterparts. And the reason why Fidel was so paranoid was because there were 625 CIA assassination attempts on him. You know you are boss when you survived that many hits. Criticize the man all you want, he carried Cuba's ass and made sure no other US-backed dictator takes over and destroy their economy. Call him what you want, but he got shit done, that's why Cuba has one of the highest literacy rates in the world.[/QUOTE]
So does North Korea, but literacy rates are a ridiculous way to measure success.
[QUOTE=Uberman77883;29302873]No that's Anarcho-collectivism.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
From a sociological standpoint, greed is a naturally occurring behavior.
Greed stems from the most basic principle of life: survival. Hoard food and things to yourself, and you will survive. Share things, and you will most likely fail.
Its learned evolutionarily. Somewhere down the line, humans began hoarding in great enough numbers that the body though hoarding = survival.[/QUOTE]
one of the reasons that humans outdid so many other animals was because they were willing to share because the survival of the community/tribe/whatever was more important than the survival of the individual. greed would have destroyed early man.
Hey guys they live in a totalitarian state with no civil rights and can't choose their leaders but it's all okay because they can read :downs:
[QUOTE=NoDachi;29305369]But this entire thread has the spin that he's stepped down from power and how that's such a big thing, when he did this effectively 5 years ago.[/QUOTE]
People commenting on article not being informed =\= Article late by 5 years
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.