Does anyone else find it somewhat asinine to say
"thats ridiculous, there will be no government under this system, instead an organization of citizens will make decisions regarding distribution of goods, justice, and regulation, Can't you see its an organization of citizens that does this, not a government."
It's pretty meaningless to say you want the government to be replaced by an organization of people who will carry out the exact same functions as the government but be managed slightly differently .
Alternatively you have the people who advocate a complete lack of organization and objectivity with respect to laws who say that mobs of people will just spontainiously rise up and deal with injustices.
In Ursula LeGuin's novel "The Disspossed" she says something to the effect that in her ideal anarcho socialist society there are no police or laws, and an example of how justice would be dealt with is given to the effect that in the case of a rape, the victims friends would locate the suspected rapist, severely beat them, and run them out of town.
Hopefully I don't need to exmplain how this total lack of procedural law, and standardized punishment wouldn't be desireable.
[QUOTE=RBM11;29309608]Because establishing a totalitarian dictatorship in place of a totalitarian dictatorship is totally okay if the other guy was worse?
And who says Batista was the [B]only[/B] alternative?
Why do people on FP continue to justify dictatorships who abuse their people's civil rights daily and still claim to be liberal?[/QUOTE]
Because there wasn't going to be an alternative. Batista was CIA's puppet.
[editline]19th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Novistador;29309802]Does anyone else find it somewhat asinine to say
"thats ridiculous, there will be no government under this system, instead an organization of citizens will make decisions regarding distribution of goods, justice, and regulation, Can't you see its an organization of citizens that does this, not a government."
It's pretty meaningless to say you want the government to be replaced by an organization of people who will carry out the exact same functions as the government but be managed slightly differently .[/quote]
Except these governments will be entirely local and will consist of citizens or elected officials with very short terms. There are multiple ways to bring this about.
[quote]Alternatively you have the people who advocate a complete lack of organization and objectivity with respect to laws who say that mobs of people will just spontainiously rise up and deal with injustices.
In Ursula LeGuin's novel "The Disspossed" she says something to the effect that in her ideal anarcho socialist society there are no police or laws, and an example of how justice would be dealt with is given to the effect that in the case of a rape, the victims friends would locate the suspected rapist, severely beat them, and run them out of town.
Hopefully I don't need to exmplain how this total lack of procedural law, and standardized punishment wouldn't be desireable.[/QUOTE]
There would obviously have to be a police force.
[QUOTE=CaptainSnake;29301569]yay! too bad communism continues in cuba
and not the good kind of working communism. the bad kind of totalrism[/QUOTE]
communism has never worked..ever what do you mean working communism?
[QUOTE=42O;29311614]communism has never worked..ever what do you mean working communism?[/QUOTE]
And Capitalism does?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNp2rxb8uUU[/media]
[QUOTE=CaptainSnake;29301569]yay! too bad communism continues in cuba
and not the good kind of working communism. the bad kind of totalrism[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as a good kind. It is a inherently flawed system that for some reason 15 year olds think is amazing.
[editline]20th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=BigBeretFrenchi;29301575]So is there gonna be any change in Cuba now that he resigned? Or is it still gonna be a shithole of a country.[/QUOTE]
Castro, if you ignore his brutal style of enforcing laws, has actually been very good to the cuban people.
It is Americas fault the country is in the state it is in due to economic and other trade related sanctions and embargos we have placed on them.
[QUOTE=Bluesummers;29312405]There is no such thing as a good kind. It is a inherently flawed system that for some reason 15 year olds think is amazing.
[/QUOTE]
Care to explain why it's inherently flawed?
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;29309607][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman[/url][/QUOTE]
Nope. You see, there's a clearly defined set of ideals and specifics written by Marx, unlike the Scotsman argument.
[QUOTE=SomTervo;29301676]lmao[/QUOTE]
The Soviet Union system worked and only failed because of rampant defense spending. A situation that the USA can relate to now.
Can't we all agree that continental Europe, above the Alps, have the right idea?
[editline]20th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=yaik9a;29313650]The Soviet Union system worked and only failed because of rampant defense spending. A situation that the USA can relate to now.[/QUOTE]
It didn't work, people still enjoyed a better quality of life and less risk factors in the western world than in the Soviet Union.
I don't know whether this is good or bad, Castro's regime seemed to be okay, I mean they had one of the best health care systems in the world from what I've heard, the only thing really holding them back was the ridiculous embargo set upon them by the USA
Ahah reading the first page of this thread feels like we've taken a step back into the cold war.
At least Fidel Castro managed to keep Cuba secure for half a century, despite the many attempts to destabilize the country.
Economic/democratic reforms also sparked mass dissent in the Soviet Union ( And was one of the main factors behind the fell of it ). Altough Cuba is a lot smaller and the reforms don't seem as big as the last ones in the Soviet Union.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;29309635]Because they masturbate over Castro's communist ideals, which are nothing but shitty lies. They refuse to acknowledge that Cuba is a piece of shit.[/QUOTE]
Seeing as Cuba has been under constant attacks by American groups including the CIA, an embargo placed on them, having their main source trade dissipate (the USSR) I think as far as third world countries go Cuba is doing okay.
[QUOTE=yaik9a;29313650]The Soviet Union system worked and only failed because of rampant defense spending. A situation that the USA can relate to now.[/QUOTE]
Stalinist.
Cuba is actually a pree cool place.
Minus the communism and dirty cigar factories.
what what what
I didn't even know he was still alive
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;29322968]what what what
I didn't even know he was still alive[/QUOTE]
Communists never die. Lenin and Stalin are probably in some bunker in Russia having a shootout.
[QUOTE=Stupideye;29323148]Communists never die. Lenin and Stalin are probably in some bunker in Russia having a shootout.[/QUOTE]
communistparty.jpg
[QUOTE=Stupideye;29323148]Communists never die. Lenin and Stalin are probably in some bunker in Russia having a shootout.[/QUOTE]
And Trotsky has an icepick in his face.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29317280]At least Fidel Castro managed to keep Cuba secure for half a century, despite the many attempts to destabilize the country.[/QUOTE]
And Hitler brought Germany out of a depression what's your fucking point? Stability is no excuse for totalitarianism.
[editline]20th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;29311573]Because there wasn't going to be an alternative. Batista was CIA's puppet.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying the Cuban people are incapable of replacing their CIA puppet with a democratic republic? That the only alternative to totalitarian dictatorship is more dictatorship but under the guise of freedom?
lol
[QUOTE=RBM11;29323401]And Hitler brought Germany out of a depression what's your fucking point? Stability is no excuse for totalitarianism.[/QUOTE]
Stability is more important than political freedom.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29323522]Stability is more important than political freedom.[/QUOTE]
To a point.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29323522]Stability is more important than political freedom.[/QUOTE]
You can have both, you know.
[QUOTE=Earthen;29316468]Can't we all agree that continental Europe, above the Alps, have the right idea?
[editline]20th April 2011[/editline]
It didn't work, people still enjoyed a better quality of life and less risk factors in the western world than in the Soviet Union.[/QUOTE]
Okay so almost zero unemployment, criminal activity quite low almost always food on the table and no meddling of the church in the government.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;29322335]Stalinist.[/QUOTE]
What is this reply implying?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29323522]Stability is more important than political freedom.[/QUOTE]
Haha I thought this was 2011 not 1933.
[QUOTE=BigBeretFrenchi;29308345]Wait how am i dumb? Ive been there before. That place is very messed up. Bless the souls that live there. That country lives off shit. You can only get certain foods each month. No walmarts. Just a small fly infested market. And your lucky to actually own a car there. Its crazy what Castro did to that place. Cuba needs to pick up quick. Its civilians are dieing from starvation cause of how it works.[/QUOTE]
I think no walmarts is a good thing.
And I've been there too, and it's no where NEAR as fucking post-apocalyptic as you're making it out to be.
Most, if not all, supply shortages can be attributed to the US. So again, thank them.
[editline]21st April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=RBM11;29309192]Of course every candidate cannot belong to any party other than the Communist or must not belong to any party and in practice they're all chosen by a small group of elite party leaders. Like saying you can "choose" anything you want to eat but the only thing on the menu is pizza.
And they still have few civil rights.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Cuba[/url]
Not really, The CCP is given privileges, but that's about it. They're pampered more then anything.
And again, that's outright bullshit. They have civil rights.
[quote]The Cuban government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses including torture, arbitrary imprisonment, unfair trials, and extrajudicial executions (also known as "El Paredón"). The Human Rights Watch alleges that the government "represses nearly all forms of political dissent" and that "Cubans are systematically denied basic rights to free expression, association, assembly, privacy, movement, and due process of law".
Cuba had the second-highest number of imprisoned journalists in 2008 (the People's Republic of China was first) according to various sources, including the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ), an international NGO, and Human Rights Watch. As a result of ownership bans, computer ownership rates are among the world's lowest. The right to use the Internet is granted only to selected people and they are monitored. Connecting to the Internet illegally can lead to a five-year prison sentence.
Cuban dissidents face arrest and imprisonment. In the 1990s, Human Rights Watch reported that Cuba's extensive prison system, one of the largest in Latin America, consists of some 40 maximum-security prisons, 30 minimum-security prisons, and over 200 work camps. According to Human Rights Watch, political prisoners, along with the rest of Cuba's prison population, are confined to jails with substandard and unhealthy conditions.
Citizens cannot leave or return to Cuba without first obtaining official permission. [/quote]
Take what you want out of it.
Here's Cuba taken from various Flickr's among other places.
[img]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/5446254947_3397b3b886_b.jpg[/img]
[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/5446198781_85ea957a1b_b.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.studylanguages.org/images/cuba/havana2.jpg[/img]
Yeah, it's real shit :rolleyes:. Cuba, especially Havana, is reminiscent to most other countries. Istanbul Turkey comes to mind.
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