• House Republicans' New Spending Bill Calls For 1-Year Delay On ObamaCare
    90 replies, posted
Breaking news: people are fucking stupid and don't do their own research. It's not a secret that if you present the ACA's provisions individually to people without telling them they're part of the law, they favor them. [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/us-usa-campaign-healthcare-idUSBRE85N01M20120625[/url] [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] I guess this is late but more source.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;42343102]Breaking news: people are fucking stupid and don't do their own research. It's not a secret that if you present the ACA's provisions individually to people without telling them they're part of the law, they favor them. [URL]http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/us-usa-campaign-healthcare-idUSBRE85N01M20120625[/URL] [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] I guess this is late but more source.[/QUOTE] Your own article backs up my point. People don't like the personal mandate and therefore don't like the bill. People are allowed to like things in the bill without liking the entire bill. Personally, I don't wouldn't want any bill that's 2,000+ pages that wasn't read before being passed, even if I agreed with 5 specific things in the bill.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42342981]My simple opinion is that since people say they don't like it, then they don't like it. I think that's the simplest explanation for negative poll results (that have been negative since the first day it was voted into law). It's been sourced on this page. Here it is again: [URL]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html[/URL] If you look at the graph you can see very slight decline as it fell off the radar and as it comes back into focus the negatives spike back up to a higher average than they've ever been.[/QUOTE] I'm seeing a range of numbers with the newest ones being on the low end but not the lowest. I still think it's a stretch to say that they are low right now because people are more informed [QUOTE=sgman91;42342981]1) I don't care if people say they understand it or not. They would need to ask people actual questions about it to see if they understood it. Of course people who are for it are going to say they understand it better. The potential bias is obvious.[/QUOTE] My simple opinion is that since people say they don't understand it, then they don't understand it. [QUOTE=sgman91;42342981]2) Having your dislike be misinformed =/= not understand the entire bill. For example, someone might think ANY bill with a personal mandate is a bad bill and it's irrelevant what the rest of the bill says. There would have to be a study asking why people don't like it compared with their knowledge to confirm that a misunderstanding is the cause of the opposition.[/QUOTE] Reuters/Ipsos poll mentioned in the article someone linked above. Large amount of support for individual provisions except for the mandate which is significantly unfavored. [QUOTE=sgman91;42342981]Also from your source: "73 percent of respondents say they're already satisfied with their coverage." That could be another massive reason people don't want another huge bureaucracy to 'fix' something that they are already satisfied with.[/QUOTE] Not terribly surprising. For the people that can get coverage healthcare in the US is among the best in the world. The problem is cost and accessibility. [editline]29th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;42343126]Your own article backs up my point. People don't like the personal mandate and therefore don't like the bill. People are allowed to like things in the bill without liking the entire bill. Personally, I don't wouldn't want any bill that's 2,000+ pages that wasn't read before being passed, even if I agreed with 5 specific things in the bill.[/QUOTE] I think the point is that we can live with the bill by cutting out the fat (mandate) that people don't like. Of course I support universal healthcare with a private option but I'm sure you disagree with that route as well.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42343126]Your own article backs up my point. People don't like the personal mandate and therefore don't like the bill. People are allowed to like things in the bill without liking the entire bill.[/QUOTE] People don't like the bill because as Raidyr pointed out the mandate is the only part that ever gets through to people in the media. The individual mandate is a joke compared to what the other provisions do for people. Also, you are exempt from paying the fee if your income is too low or you are too poor to afford the cheapest coverage available to you.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;42343205] Also, you are exempt from paying the fee if your income is too low or you are too poor to afford the cheapest coverage available to you.[/QUOTE] Which 51% of people in a poll didn't even know, which contributes to the idea that atleast some portion of the people who poll against the ACA simply don't know what it is they are voting against.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42343207]Which 51% of people in a poll didn't even know, which contributes to the idea that atleast some portion of the people who poll against the ACA simply don't know what it is they are voting against.[/QUOTE] I'd say the vast, VAST majority of Americans don't realize how little of a percentage Health Care can take up of your income for you to be exempt from the tax (8% or more). Republicans and their media sources have been repeating the same lies nonstop since the bill was even on the table, and EVERYONE has been repeating these lies, whether they're democrats or republicans. One thing that pisses me off to no end is the propagation of bullshit. And you don't see any one in the media correcting this extremely common misconception.
I still can't even fathom how Americans can be so downright retarded as to not want proper nationalized healthcare. Half the Americans I speak to would rather lose their house and live in a ditch rather than be forced to pay for someone else's treatments through taxes/nationalized healthcare.
[QUOTE=Miskav;42344075]I still can't even fathom how Americans can be so downright retarded as to not want proper nationalized healthcare. Half the Americans I speak to would rather lose their house and live in a ditch rather than be forced to pay for someone else's treatments through taxes/nationalized healthcare.[/QUOTE] Because SOCIALIST LIBERAL HIPPIE COMMUNISTS gunna come take mah GUNS AND MAH BIBLE!
[QUOTE=Justjake274;42340263]fuck republicans also fuck democrats lets just have a benevolent dictatorship at least shit would get done[/QUOTE] Come to canada, its about as close to one that you can get in NA, if not fully benevolent
Holy shit. I was watching the verdict on C-SPAN. (that one unbiased political news channel that no one talks about.) None of the congress would SHUT THE FUCK UP. Even when the speaker of the House ordered them to. And they both voted yea or nay due to their respective parties. I knew the loyalty was bad but not THIS bad.
Hopefully we can now completely get rid of Obamacare and go with private health care companies.
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352134]Hopefully we can now completely get rid of Obamacare and go with private health care companies.[/QUOTE] no thanks because they'll charge me an ass and a leg for a pre-existing condition
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352134]Hopefully we can now completely get rid of Obamacare and go with private health care companies.[/QUOTE] You're kidding, I hope. America should do away with for-profit insurance companies and private healthcare companies. Socialised healthcare is the way to go.
[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;42352259]You're kidding, I hope. America should do away with for-profit insurance companies and private healthcare companies. Socialised healthcare is the way to go.[/QUOTE] No, I am not kidding. I'd rather see privatized companies rather than a government controlled program. More competition, lower prices.
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352298]No, I am not kidding. I'd rather see privatized companies rather than a government controlled program. More competition, lower prices.[/QUOTE] Haha you think that's how that works?
[QUOTE=SomeDumbShit;42352351]Haha you think that's how that works?[/QUOTE] Yes, that is what I learned in economics at least. If another business pops up and sells an equivalent good/service, you'll lower your prices so you get more business. I don't want this type of government involvement.
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352417]Yes, that is what I learned in economics at least. If another business pops up and sells an equivalent good/service, you'll lower your prices so you get more business. I don't want this type of government involvement.[/QUOTE] all this falls apart, when you take into consideration that screwing people out of medical treatment or/and charging horribly equals profit, doing shoddy work when you can hide you're doing it, or when people have no option but to accept your shit equals profit too, and profit > doing whats right in capitalism. i don't get why americans tend to be so willing to trust corporations(which you have no say in who is in charge, and all they care is money) with immense power, more than a goverment that you can choose through vote, even if not perfect. seriously someone explain this to me, i always wondered why.
[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;42340136]I hope the government does shut down so that the Americans will see how scummy everyone in the federal government is. I'm pissed off but I can't do shit about this.[/QUOTE] You can do shit about this. It's just that everybody is too lazy to get off their chairs to do anything.
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352298]No, I am not kidding. I'd rather see privatized companies rather than a government controlled program. More competition, lower prices.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate"]are you aware that the prisons in america are privatized? BTW they also store THE MOST of all prisoners... in the entire world. They didn't do that by being efficient, they did that by fucking people over [U]for profit[/U][/URL]
Selling essential things for profit: recipe for disaster.
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352298]No, I am not kidding. I'd rather see privatized companies rather than a government controlled program. More competition, lower prices.[/QUOTE] My sides. Seriously, it hurts to breath.
[QUOTE=person11;42353245]Selling essential things for profit: recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE] to be fair, food does pretty well with capitalism. I mean it could go better but yeah.
[QUOTE=Gatsby;42352613]You can do shit about this. It's just that everybody is too lazy to get off their chairs to do anything.[/QUOTE] Or when they do, there's simply not enough force or attention, and/or it lacks (or loses) a solid direction. Granted, I didn't follow it, but I'm still not even sure what the whole Occupy thing was about. So color me silly, but aside from people doing something unusual or brazen (as in, a whole city/state stops paying federal taxes); I'm not sure how else people are going to get a voice out.
[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;42352298]No, I am not kidding. I'd rather see privatized companies rather than a government controlled program. More competition, lower prices.[/QUOTE] But private healthcare is literally the exact system you have now and the United States has the most expensive healthcare in the world
[QUOTE=J!NX;42353565]to be fair, food does pretty well with capitalism. I mean it could go better but yeah.[/QUOTE] Although it's the low quality and unhealthy goods that are often cheapest. Taxing the unhealthy foods and using the money gained from that to subsidize the healthy foods [I]COULD[/I] work, atleast in theory.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;42354264]But private healthcare is literally the exact system you have now and the United States has the most expensive healthcare in the world[/QUOTE] No, the US healthcare system is so controlled by government that saying it has any semblance of a free market is nothing but fallacious.
What I don't understand with this thing called Obamacare is that it still uses the insurance companies. Why go through all this effort and keep them involved? US state has given Israel over $100bn (that we know of, most likely a lot more) - and Israel's used that money to create a successful socialist medicine system even though the people that gave them that money are against that kind of medicine. Why not take the money back and build your own healthcare system?
[QUOTE=gandalfgrey;42357057]What I don't understand with this thing called Obamacare is that it still uses the insurance companies. Why go through all this effort and keep them involved? US state has given Israel over $100bn (that we know of, most likely a lot more) - and Israel's used that money to create a successful socialist medicine system even though the people that gave them that money are against that kind of medicine. Why not take the money back and build your own healthcare system?[/QUOTE] Because the US government cares more about world hegemony and maintaining their status as a Cold War super power than the well being of their own citizens.
[QUOTE=sgman91;42356723]No, the US healthcare system is so controlled by government that saying it has any semblance of a free market is nothing but fallacious.[/QUOTE] I'd rather murder every politician than let my family be at the hand of capitalist scumbags when it comes to health.
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