• Donald Trump overtakes Hillary Clinton for first time since May in ABC poll
    406 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51295552]Ok then let's pick this apart; [t]https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-BW199_ILLEGA_16U_20160208174809.jpg[/t] Taking one state as an example we were looking at the loss of 3% GDP because of illegal immigrants and a total savings of maybe 500 million. This 3% when translated to numbers equals to 7.5 billion US$. So there's a net deficit of 7 billion gone, and so much for that. [url]https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/cutting-immigration-myths-down-size[/url] please read this and then tell me more about the myth of illegal immigrants swarming into america in enormous numbers. As for your argument against free trade, it's again propped up on myths that bilateral agreements are making Americans lose money and jobs. Many companies rely on free trade simply to keep the balance books in order. If you think the American auto industry, for example, has it bad now, you've got another thing coming when the trade deals get torn up. Donald Trump, being a businessman through and through, will think nothing of continuing to exploit loopholes for his own benefit, such as cutting taxes for big businesses so that even less money ends up in the state treasury. He wants to appoint himself as representative for trade of the US, which is an even funnier joke considering he made less money as a businessman than if he'd have just let every cent lie collecting interest in a bank. Try again.[/QUOTE] How about a study that looked at illegal immagration as a whole: [url]http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers[/url] You're a big boy, you can read it yourself. It's not so much about the people coming in as compared to the people already in the US. Something close to I think 12 or 11 illegals. And that doesn't even account for 14th amendment babies. What needs to stop flowing in is the drugs. As for your trade argument, I'd look into history a bit more and realize what good protective tariffs can and have done for nations. I expected better from someone from former British Raj to have a stronger stance against free trade.
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51295572] Huddled masses yearning to break free can go through naturalization and integration. It's the American thing to do.[/QUOTE] 10 to 20 years waiting lists, legal clusterfuck, large fees, and a system that is based upon knowing the right people. Also, as far as I'm concerned, most people who got to US in Ellis Island, were practically illegals - you came on a boat, had your name signed (and that's a maybe), and off you go - no further legal enforcement or tracking.
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51295572]Easy there paul, you read that too fast. This is a slow reading zone. If you read it again, you would see ILLEGAL immigrants in that first line. Something that should be shut down. Huddled masses yearning to break free can go through naturalization and integration. It's the American thing to do.[/QUOTE] I'm just having a jab at how the US came to be, I don't mean it too literally.
[QUOTE=paul simon;51295551]Ah yes, immigration, the most American thing there is. Let's shut it down.[/QUOTE] Quality post, not pretentious at all. [QUOTE=BelatedGamer;51295557]Okay I won't ignore your reasons, I appreciate you're giving some. Now please answer me this; what about Trump's anti-immigration policies specifically are attractive to you?[/QUOTE] The wall.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295465]Nah. It's nice watching incredibly pretentious people get incredibly upset at the thought that SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION. Seriously, you're all talking theoretically about how stupid and ignorant Trump supporters are. Yet here I am, an actual Trump supporter replying to you people, but instead all 5 or 6 of you are just fluffing each other of in your little hug box. The lack of self awareness here is unreal.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Komodoh;51294823]His strong stance on illegal immigration. The amount of illegals that come in to this country is atrocious. It cost the federal and state governments $110 BILLION a year in services to "take care" of these people who shouldn't even be here in the first place. And no, they do not pay in taxes more than they take out.[/quote] I'm gonna guess that stat is from [url=http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers]here[/url], but they include stuff like $52 billion for education of illegal immigrants' children - children who are mostly US citizens. Those $52 billion aren't just thrown into a big hole, those children will probably become productive citizens of the United States. They themselves estimate that about 59% of the total expenses is made up of education, most of that probably to children who are mostly American citizens. Including that stat seems a bit doubtful, and even then you have to subtract their own estimate of the tax revenue from these illegal immigrants - just mentioning expenses and pretending that it's the net flow of money can make everything look like a shitty investment. I'm not gonna claim to know everything about illegal immigration and its costs in the US, but at the very least it's (much) lower than $110 billion, and other studies have found them to be a net positive. Either way, you have to weigh that against what building a wall will cost, both in upfront costs and maintenance - what use is a wall if it isn't maintained and manned? Then you have to look at how many illegal immigrants that will even prevent. [quote]Also his strong stance on trade. Free trade has done nothing but hurt American workers because of countries like China, Vietnam, Mexico, and other countries that have significantly less regulations and workers rights than the US does that make the cost of labor so cheap we can't even compete.[/quote] The US should seek to educate its population instead of relying on manufacturing jobs. Manufacturing jobs aren't well-paid, they're gonna get swept away by automation anyway, and keeping them in the US would hurt US companies' competitiveness. I'm not gonna judge whether free trade is inherently bad or good, but it's at least more nuanced than you make it out to be. There's also the question of how Trump is going to return those jobs to the US, if it's even possible. [quote]I'm a conservative as well so stuff like his stance on guns, abortion, and all that I like.[/QUOTE] Great for you that you want to limit what women can do with their own bodies. Anyway, what's your stance on climate change? Edit: [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295538]I live in California (Don't ask why my flag is Canadian, I don't know why either). We have the highest state taxes in order to pay for these illegals. My state alone pays (I think) $20 billion in services out of tax money I pay. Illegals and the children of illegals commit the majority of the crime in my state. I have lost a lot of my friends to drugs because of how easy it is to access them from people who cross the border. Two of those friends got drugs from illegals directly. [B]Almost everywhere I go it feels like a different country because of the lack of people who actually speak English.[/B] I'm not just talking about Mexicans either, Vietnamese and Chinese are just, if not more, common to hear than Spanish. Whether or not you think those are valid reasons is not my concern, those are my reasons. And anyone who will actually do something about closing our border and deporting these people will get my support.[/QUOTE] Also to be frank I find this a bit funny. The majority of people in the US may speak English, but the US doesn't have a national language. Your tongue is no more American than Spanish or even Vietnamese or Chinese. The US is built on immigrants, maybe you should learn to respect that instead of being culturally narrow-minded.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51295574]source pls Illegal immigrants pay income tax but don't collect social security, like why do you go on the internet just to lie to people?[/QUOTE] Like always, it comes down to feelz before realz. When the facts don't suit your narrative, you can always make something else up to reinforce the way we think. As previously mentioned, in one state alone it was recorded that 7 billion dollars' worth of deficit ensued when laws were tightened up against the illegal immigrants, and any benefits from seeing them leave were simply too little to justify their deportation. Also there's the question of finding enough Americans to replace them in those jobs, to say nothing of any existing regulations going down the drain because Trump doesn't believe in regulations, so again we're worse off than where we were before, but it doesnt matter because the illegals got thrown out yeah?
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295538]Whether or not you think those are valid reasons is not my concern, those are my reasons. And anyone who will actually do something about closing our border and deporting these people will get my support.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately I do not think most of these are valid reasons. In particular, [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295538]I have lost a lot of my friends to drugs because of how easy it is to access them from people who cross the border. Two of those friends got drugs from illegals directly.[/QUOTE] While this is sad, this is largely the fault of your friends. If you're going to do drugs you have to be willing to accept the risks that come with taking them, and one of the risks you need to consider is: is this drug safe to do, and am I even getting a pure version of the drug I [I]think[/I] I'm getting? Sure, drug dealers shouldn't actually be selling drugs to people (from a legal standpoint; ethically it's another matter entirely), but it's not exactly their fault that you do drugs. Coming from a person who claimed several posts ago that, quote: [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295465]The lack of self awareness here is unreal.[/QUOTE] I find this whole aspect of your argument somewhat ironic. I say this as someone who has experimented with drugs myself. I fully take on board the fact that I'm solely responsible for my own well-being in doing so. Furthermore, this aspect of your post: [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295538]Almost everywhere I go it feels like a different country because of the lack of people who actually speak English. I'm not just talking about Mexicans either, Vietnamese and Chinese are just, if not more, common to hear than Spanish.[/QUOTE] reeks of nothing but xenophobia to me. Presumably the Vietnamese and Chinese people who live there aren't illegal immigrants, so why shouldn't they be allowed to stay? You might not like them; you might think they look funny, or not like the sound of their language, and to be fair you don't [I]have[/I] to like them, but if they've moved to your country legally then you should just deal with that. There's plenty of white people that I dislike, and I'm sure you're in the same boat, but you can't exactly just go ejecting all of them from your country, too. [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295538]My state alone pays (I think) $20 billion in services out of tax money I pay. Illegals and the children of illegals commit the majority of the crime in my state.[/QUOTE] This is really the only concern of yours that I feel is in [I]any[/I] way legitimate (if it's true).
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295582]Quality post, not pretentious at all. The wall.[/QUOTE] Why do you think the wall would be effective in any way when the current border enforcement doesn't work and there is practically a wall there too? The wall is a waste of money for a country that should be making it easier to immigrate to legally without all that useless red tape.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295578]How about a study that looked at illegal immagration as a whole: [url]http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers[/url] You're a big boy, you can read it yourself.[/QUOTE] 10/10 source, a group that literally takes donations from neo-nazis and hates ALL immigrations. Seems fair and balanced.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295582]Quality post, not pretentious at all.[/QUOTE] Is everything you don't like pretentious?
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295582]Quality post, not pretentious at all. The wall.[/QUOTE] Your wall won't do jack shit to keep anything out except be a drain on the US and the Mexican economies.
[QUOTE=gufu;51295567]Source please. Free trade is literally the most American thing ever. You goddamn godless commie. Also, those jobs wouldn't come back even if minimum wage and OSHA were simply gone - there is no good reason for manufacturing to come back to US, it's too much investment for what already can be achieved in the listed countries. US needs to work out an alternative to their population, because current service-based economy is not sustainable. He's gonna claim that people are terrorist and take their guns away. Democratic president will do absolutely nothing to guns at all, except generate some scare waves to make things more expensive for a week or two. All anti-gun legislations that have been whined about are state-side, so if you want them changed, take it to your local Senator and Representatives - don't expect a President, of all people, to do anything. Unless you're a woman, that's not even relevant to you.[/QUOTE] This is the least intelligent post I've seen all night. Since I can't into formatting yet, here's your bulk reply "No good reason for manufacturing to come back." Yea, lets forget all that GDP and jobs it creates for our economy. I mean jeez, 1990s China didn't NEED all that manufacturing, it only made them the second largest economy in the world. As for guns, quality ad hominums. And you're dead wrong about the president doing nothing, You should look into his executive orders on guns. Like I said I live in California, I've seen what happens when anti-gun democrats get into power. Literally this election there's a proposition to *restrict* them even more by making any magazines over 10 round capacity illegal. And yes, I have a republican representative. I've met him once, lovely guy. You don't tell me what is and isn't relevant to me. *Editing
[QUOTE=gufu;51295579]10 to 20 years waiting lists, legal clusterfuck, large fees, and a system that is based upon knowing the right people. Also, as far as I'm concerned, most people who got to US in Ellis Island, were practically illegals - you came on a boat, had your name signed (and that's a maybe), and off you go - no further legal enforcement or tracking.[/QUOTE] First off, I was open to reforming and fixing the immigration services. But I am saying that the process is not 10-20 years long. My neighbors kid would have been 6 by now if that was the case (I believe they came here in 2005?) Second, that was in like the 1880s to like 1920. Now I know a system where people can go sign a name and immigrate is fine and dandy back then but for fucks sake this is 21st century America. We need regulation for security, health, trade, and lots of other stuff to protect American citizens. Without that we would be in a huge mess.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295578]How about a study that looked at illegal immagration as a whole: [url]http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers[/url] You're a big boy, you can read it yourself. It's not so much about the people coming in as compared to the people already in the US. Something close to I think 12 or 11 illegals. And that doesn't even account for 14th amendment babies. What needs to stop flowing in is the drugs. As for your trade argument, I'd look into history a bit more and realize what good protective tariffs can and have done for nations. I expected better from someone from former British Raj to have a stronger stance against free trade.[/QUOTE] Ooh a FAIR report, how about linking us to Breitbart next. That report btw assumes different income levels for the same group of people several times to maximise the costs incurred on the government. It uses anecdotal evidence to boost its number (like the medicare bit) It assumes that native born children of immigrants, raised in the US, are the brunt of LEP costs. Like you can cut your estimate in half since over half of their end figure [B]includes money spent on native born US citizens.[/B] Which of course ignores the fact that ALL children are expensive. [B]also, it would cost over 200 billion for programs to expunge all illegal immigrants from the US.[/B]
There's too many of you replying to me so I apologize if I can't address you all.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295582] The wall.[/QUOTE] ah yes the wall which would do nothing to stop illegal immigrants and would instead cost more than (the completely incorrect FAIR report says is the cost of) illegal immigrants over 5 years, and that would do nothing to stop crime and drugs from coming over the border.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51295605]ah yes the wall which would do nothing to stop illegal immigrants and would instead cost more than (the completely incorrect FAIR report says is the cost of) illegal immigrants over 5 years, and that would do nothing to stop crime and drugs from coming over the border.[/QUOTE] Add that to the first post you dip. It's even on the same page. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Novangel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295504]Literally no one asked for a reason, BUT if you look at page 4 of this thread you can see where i gave some reasons why i like Trump. Instead you all start flaming about how I'm just one of those darn stupid conservatives. How tolerant of you too accept my opinion and already jump to conclusions about me before I can even give a response, totally not pretentious at all. Edit: I couldn't quote you all but you know who you are.[/QUOTE] okay lets put your shit to the test, okay? [QUOTE=Komodoh;51294823]His strong stance on illegal immigration. The amount of illegals that come in to this country is atrocious. It cost the federal and state governments $110 BILLION a year in services to "take care" of these people who shouldn't even be here in the first place. And no, they do not pay in taxes more than they take out.[/QUOTE] this seriously reads like a conservative facebook clickbait. this is no way true because reality doesn't match it, it reads like someone who never interacted with illegals and believes that they spend their entire days just laying around people's lawns enjoying welfare cash. here just for you, i used CATO institute which isn't a liberal think tank so you don't pull the bias card; they're a pro-free trade think tank that actually took that $110 billion meme which sources might include the FAIR think tank and studied it. now before you panic at the huffington post link, its the unedited editorial by the CATO writer himself [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-nowrasteh/federation-for-american-i_b_1080249.html[/url] [quote]FAIR’s evidence is detailed in its report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers” by Jack Martin and Eric A. Ruark. Quite frankly, it is one of the most amateurish and error filled reports I’ve ever read. I[B]t ignores the fiscal benefits of unauthorized immigration and uses dubious numbers and poor methodology to reach its conclusions[/B].[/quote] wait sir, excuse me, did you not know that illegal immigrants are just evil parasites that sucks welfare money with absolute magic? fuck you and your george mason / school of london degrees [quote]Every human activity has both costs and benefits. People constantly weigh costs and benefits. If a given action’s benefits outweigh its costs, that action is worth taking - but you have to analyze both the costs and benefits first before you can come to that conclusion. The FAIR report counts the costs alone.[/quote] this is also assuming that hypothetically speaking, [B]every [/B]illegal immigrant is pulling out maximum welfare benefits and using every social service to the max which is impossible unless these evil mexicans learned the art of hogwart financial magic. go try to your local welfare services and try see how much documents you need to provide to get them. i guess the government is only full of bureaucracy & red tapes until it comes to illegal immigrants? [quote]FAIR then ignores economic activity that produces tax revenue elsewhere. For instance, unauthorized immigrants purchase vast amounts of goods and services. Profits for those businesses, and hence tax revenues, would decrease if unauthorized immigrants were removed. Many unauthorized immigrants also own businesses, so if they were to be deported their businesses would either disappear or lie dormant until they could be taken over by others.[/quote] wow shit, its as if illegal immigrants who come here doesn't magically conjure up goods, they actually buy them from american businesses and pay tax. [url]http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes[/url] illegal immigrants would not be trying so hard to become legal citizens if it was so luxurious to stay illegal, but they are because they pay taxes without reaping said benefits in return. [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295504]Also his strong stance on trade. Free trade has done nothing but hurt American workers because of countries like China, Vietnam, Mexico, and other countries that have significantly less regulations and workers rights than the US does that make the cost of labor so cheap we can't even compete.[/QUOTE] cost of labor is so cheap because we don't live in a pre-2000 Earth. automation and computers has been optimizing and perfecting itself ever since business people realized they had ways to create workers that never complains, ask for raise, never asks for breaks, and etc. why would you employ bunch of factory workers who demands reasonable & sane working conditions when you simply have machines doing their jobs? the national & world map was studied and had their shipping routes optimized to maximize fuel consumption, weather technology to prevent cargo damage, roads mapped out and fixed to ensure that transported goods made by machines or cheap workers will always in out vs. workers that are paid well in a nice working environment. what you're demanding isn't the free market that conservatives once stood for; its protectionism that harms our economy and ultimately harms the consumer. remember larry kudlow? the economist your candidate always name dropped to pretend like his plans are brillant? the only thing mr. kudlow agrees on is on his tax policies but ultimately thinks his tariffs and trade 'deals' are dumb: [url]http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423141/donald-trump-21st-century-protectionist-herbert-hoover-stephen-moore-larry-kudlow[/url] [url]http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/26/why-trumps-protectionist-ways-will-hurt-the-economy-commentary.html[/url] if your factory jobs come back somehow, it'll be either because regulations & wages has been reduced to third world levels which you'll be complaining about either way or gigantic amount of fucking tax breaks & shady shit to make it worth it for the corporates. we're a service economy that benefits from free trade, lets have your boy kudlow explain it better than i can: [quote]Free trade is also one of these prosperity building blocks, and Trump’s call for tariffs as high as 35 percent is worrisome in the extreme. We want Americans and workers all over the world to have access to the best-quality products at the lowest possible prices. This is the centuries-long economic law of comparative advantage first taught to us by David Ricardo. Take the Ford plant in Mexico. If it’s more profitable for Ford to produce trucks in Mexico, fine. As the supply of Mexican trucks rises, incomes for all Mexicans go up. These same Mexicans then go out and spend their new money — not just on domestic products, but on U.S. goods and services available on the market, thus building up the U.S. economy. It’s win-win. [/quote] [quote]But trade is also vital to American jobs. A Heritage Foundation study finds that “international trade has boosted annual U.S. income by at least 10 percentage points of GDP relative to what it would have been without global trade, which translates into an aggregate gain of at least $1.7 trillion in 2013, or an average gain of more than $13,600 per U.S. household per year.” Free trade is also the greatest antidote to poverty and deprivation in the world’s history. Over the past three decades, according to the World Bank and other sources, the spread of free trade has lowered abject, dollar-a-day poverty by nearly 1 billion people. [/quote] and opposite of that is that as costs imposed on us, [B]we'll be paying the tariff[/B] as ted cruz pointed out in the debate but trump supporters ignored because it wasn't a sarcastic zinger. you think iphones and samsung galaxies are expensive? or prefer food being cheaper? good luck when tariffs are imposed. dont blame illegal immigrants or free trade, blame crony capitalists who hoard their cash and withhold from paying their fair share while getting rich and those that protects them.
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51295606]Add that to the first post you dip. It's even on the same page.[/QUOTE] jesus sorry this is all just so dramatic and heated that i forget to format just like with this post
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295597]This is the least intelligent post I've seen all night. Since I can't into formatting yet, here's your bulk reply[/quote] Well, you're one of the less intelligent posters. Such is life. [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295597]"No good reason for manufacturing to come back." Yea, lets forget all that GDP and jobs it creates for our economy. I mean jeez, 1990s China didn't NEED all that manufacturing, it only made them the second largest economy in the world.[/quote] Cool. Except you seem to forgot as to WHO brings the manufacturing to the country: Companies. Unless you are going for government-directed and controlled economy, there is no such luck. Companies don't care for the GDP of any single country - they only care to create products with lowest production costs for the highest bidder. [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295597]As for guns, quality ad hominums. And you're dead wrong about the president doing nothing, You should look into his executive orders on guns. Like I said I live in California, I've seen what happens when anti-gun democrats get into power. Literally this election there's a proposition to respect them even more by making any magazines over 10 round capacity illegal. And yes, I have a republican representative. I've met him once, lovely guy.[/quote] I am looking through the list of the Executive Orders, and I'm not seeing anything. Please provide sources. [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295597]You don't tell me what is and isn't relevant to me.[/QUOTE] The currently ongoing rain on Venus is not relevant to you. Boo hoo. [editline]2nd November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Stroheim;51295598]First off, I was open to reforming and fixing the immigration services. But I am saying that the process is not 10-20 years long. My neighbors kid would have been 6 by now if that was the case (I believe they came here in 2005?)[/QUOTE] I legally immigrated to the US, and it took a decade for the bureaucracy to be properly furnished. The only faster way I can think of, is through marriage with a US citizen. The point is that immigration system needs improvements rather than merely trying to close off the holes with fingers.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;51295608]okay lets put your shit to the test, okay? this seriously reads like a conservative facebook clickbait. this is no way true because reality doesn't match it, it reads like someone who never interacted with illegals and believes that they spend their entire days just laying around people's lawns enjoying welfare cash. here just for you, i used CATO institute which isn't a liberal think tank so you don't pull the bias card; they're a pro-free trade think tank that actually took that $110 billion meme which sources might include the FAIR think tank and studied it. now before you panic at the huffington post link, its the unedited editorial by the CATO writer himself [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-nowrasteh/federation-for-american-i_b_1080249.html[/url] wait sir, excuse me, did you not know that illegal immigrants are just evil parasites that sucks welfare money with absolute magic? fuck you and your george mason / school of london degrees this is also assuming that hypothetically speaking, [B]every [/B]illegal immigrant is pulling out maximum welfare benefits and using every social service to the max which is impossible unless these evil mexicans learned the art of hogwart financial magic. go try to your local welfare services and try see how much documents you need to provide to get them. i guess the government is only full of bureaucracy & red tapes until it comes to illegal immigrants? wow shit, its as if illegal immigrants who come here doesn't magically conjure up goods, they actually buy them from american businesses and pay tax. [url]http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes[/url] illegal immigrants would not be trying so hard to become legal citizens if it was so luxurious to stay illegal, but they are because they pay taxes without reaping said benefits in return. cost of labor is so cheap because we don't live in a pre-2000 Earth. automation and computers has been optimizing and perfecting itself ever since business people realized they had ways to create workers that never complains, ask for raise, never asks for breaks, and etc. why would you employ bunch of factory workers who demands reasonable & sane working conditions when you simply have machines doing their jobs? the national & world map was studied and had their shipping routes optimized to maximize fuel consumption, weather technology to prevent cargo damage, roads mapped out and fixed to ensure that transported goods made by machines or cheap workers will always in out vs. workers that are paid well in a nice working environment. what you're demanding isn't the free market that conservatives once stood for; its protectionism that harms our economy and ultimately harms the consumer. remember larry kudlow? the economist your candidate always name dropped to pretend like his plans are brillant? the only thing mr. kudlow agrees on is on his tax policies but ultimately thinks his tariffs and trade 'deals' are dumb: [url]http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423141/donald-trump-21st-century-protectionist-herbert-hoover-stephen-moore-larry-kudlow[/url] [url]http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/26/why-trumps-protectionist-ways-will-hurt-the-economy-commentary.html[/url] if your factory jobs come back somehow, it'll be either because regulations & wages has been reduced to third world levels which you'll be complaining about either way or gigantic amount of fucking tax breaks & shady shit to make it worth it for the corporates. we're a service economy that benefits from free trade, lets have your boy kudlow explain it better than i can: and opposite of that is that as costs imposed on us, [B]we'll be paying the tariff[/B] as ted cruz pointed out in the debate but trump supporters ignored because it wasn't a sarcastic zinger. you think iphones and samsung galaxies are expensive? or prefer food being cheaper? good luck when tariffs are imposed. dont blame illegal immigrants or free trade, blame crony capitalists who hoard their cash and withhold from paying their fair share while getting rich and those that protects them.[/QUOTE] I'm way too tired to reply to all of that but I'll give you my points. This will also be my last post for the night. First off trying to play something off as unbiased and then linking an article from huffintonpost's blog section is comical in itself. It doesnt surprise me that CATO, a libertarian think tank, would be in favor of open borders and free trade. Libertarians don't care about the well being of American citizens over muh free market. Heres another cource if you don't like FAIR. [url]http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-but-illegal-aliens-cost-the-u-s-plenty/[/url] As for free trade I know the all the repercussions. Nothing you told me is new to me. The problem is that its much MUCH cheaper to afford Mexican workers and import Chinese goods than it is to buy American goods in the majority of Industries. Tariffs will increase prices, but, as has happened many times before, would increase American jobs and give the US more purchasing power. This can not be done by itself however, like you said, regulations have to be decreased as well, which I am okay with, as well as reducing business tax (As Trump intended). And I'm not referring to The Jungle kind of regulations, there are many things that are required of businesses that can be deemed unnecessary and inhibit economic activity. Thanks everyone for the flaming, was fun. Goodnight :)
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;51295608]and opposite of that is that as costs imposed on us, [B]we'll be paying the tariff[/B] as ted cruz pointed out in the debate but trump supporters ignored because it wasn't a sarcastic zinger.[/QUOTE] i love the idea of the tariff - tax imported goods by as high as 35% and then suddenly be extremely confused when all the prices of goods in your country skyrocket because, surprise surprise, the businesses selling to your country raise their prices to, you guessed it, cover the tariff.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295650]Thanks everyone for the flaming, was fun. Goodnight :)[/QUOTE] So, can we like, report him for trolling finally? [editline]2nd November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51295652]i love the idea of the tariff - tax imported goods by as high as 35% and then suddenly be extremely confused when all the prices of goods in your country skyrocket because, surprise surprise, the businesses selling to your country raise their prices to, you guessed it, cover the tariff.[/QUOTE] I still like the part where they think that lowering taxes will somehow entice companies to remain, instead of ignoring US entirely as a market, and just continuing expansion in the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295650] Thanks everyone for the flaming, was fun. Goodnight :)[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51295493]Man this is the election where the next president might actually get shot midterm by a disgruntled person that could be from both parties. I don't think this has happened before. That'll be something to hopefully not read about.[/QUOTE] March 15, 2017. The New Times Trump Assassinated. Trump was assassinated today. Trump was giving a speech when someone from the crowd rushed the stage wielding a knife. The assailant was stopped by a person in the crowd, who then picked up the knife then proceeded to rush the stage. The new assailant was stopped by another member of the crowd who then pick up the knife then rushed the stage. She made it past the security protecting Trump and proceeded to stab President Trump multiple times until a Secret Service Sniper disabled the attacker. We were allowed to interview her when she recovered from her coma. When asked why she stopped the other would be assailants, she replied "Because I wanted to be the one to stop Trump.". The other assailants after investigation were revealed to be professionals hired separately by both the GOP and Democratic party. When the third assailant was asked why she did it, she said was hired by Trunp to do the hit. When asked why she replied "Because it would make him look good>" [sp]I tried :([/sp]
[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;51295674]I'm sorry I gave you the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] Nothing I said I don't stand by. Reread my first post in this, I enjoy the heated and butthurt replies that's inevitable on this site when you don't have the correct opinion.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51295652]i love the idea of the tariff - tax imported goods by as high as 35% and then suddenly be extremely confused when all the prices of goods in your country skyrocket because, surprise surprise, the businesses selling to your country raise their prices to, you guessed it, cover the tariff.[/QUOTE] And then be even more surprised as local businesses flourish and out compete foreign supplies of goods, the local economy is kick-started and unemployment crashes as more businesses need more staff. Imagine all that. There are good things to tarif and bad things to tarif... for example tarifs need to be heavy on produced goods and goods you have a strong export on so you create a safe haven for your export products to also be used on home ground and thus be better at taking foreign fluctuations but weak against products you have a weak import on or that are very close to the production cycle like resources (especially resources really...) because a high import might induce scarcity. The arguments against tarifs are basically and predominantly 'the other guys can do it too' but the US economy is actually in a really strong position for tarif resistance since they dont really do final manufacturing all that much any more compared to all the rest of their economy, and due to the economic stance of the middle class currently its better to breed middle class jobs anyway. The only problem i see is particular raw resources and their suppliers, this is the only point where trade deals would benefit the US, for example cheap Chinese steel or Arabian oil but both of these the dependancy can be overcome nationally over a decade span combined with the fact that the US actually has production in these areas and is the primary taker of these resources... in other words we can do things locally for a higher price, but businesses would have a far bigger export market once things settle down so it balances out... just a case of ripping the bandaid off and having supplies and structures in place to take that initial scarcity (we dont have that atm, but we could very well do get it, its within our reach.) Im not even an economist and i know the arguments for tarifs and against... next time do a quick google
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295650]I'm way too tired to reply to all of that but I'll give you my points. This will also be my last post for the night. First off trying to play something off as unbiased and then linking an article from huffintonpost's blog section is comical in itself. It doesnt surprise me that CATO, a libertarian think tank, would be in favor of open borders and free trade. Libertarians don't care about the well being of American citizens over muh free market. Heres another cource if you don't like FAIR.[/QUOTE] im pretty sure that you only skimmed it looking for buzz words otherwise you'd know that i said i only linked huffingtonpost post for the CATO article, guess you entirely ignored that mate. and the reason why i used CATO was to prove that nothing can be good enough for people like you; you won't consider any of the sources nor studies unless it agrees with you. in fact, i used that article cause i knew you'd pull shit like this: [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295650][URL]http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-but-illegal-aliens-cost-the-u-s-plenty/[/URL][/QUOTE] this is [B]exactly[/B] what he meant with articles like these; its bunch of hypothetical assertions that every illegal immigrants use the maximum amount of benefits & welfare available when such idea is absolutely ludicrous & unrealistic. if illegal immigration was such a parasitic drain on society, every state with high rate of illegal immigration should be bankrupt & brink of death. instead its the opposite; california, texas, new york, florida, and etc. has the highest numbers of illegal immigration but they're the states that are often on the frontlines of economic prosperity and growth. [QUOTE=Komodoh;51295650]As for free trade I know the all the repercussions. Nothing you told me is new to me. The problem is that its much MUCH cheaper to afford Mexican workers and import Chinese goods than it is to buy American goods in the majority of Industries. Tariffs will increase prices, but, as has happened many times before, would increase American jobs and give the US more purchasing power. This can not be done by itself however, like you said, regulations have to be decreased as well, which I am okay with, as well as reducing business tax (As Trump intended). And I'm not referring to The Jungle kind of regulations, there are many things that are required of businesses that can be deemed unnecessary and inhibit economic activity. [/QUOTE] except there is no one that agrees with you; you're still oversimplifying economics to the point its like you're playing crusader kings and if you do x, x will definitely happen. it doesn't, everything looks good on paper but fails in practice. it will only increase american jobs if the reduction in regulation matches or become similar to the third world countries they're competing against; people in minimum wage already suffers with just eating, imagine if it goes half of that working in businesses with shitty practices like cutting corners on buildings & safeties, lack of benefits, employee protections, and etc. they will have no purchase power because it'll be balanced out with more expensive products. this is not [B]pre-2000[/B], stop thinking like that; you're living in a world where automation and technology has already replaced shit ton of jobs and will continue to do so over the years as they're becoming optimized and perfected. low skilled workers do not have much to show for anymore. paul krugman disagrees with you. so does larry kudlow so does larry summers economists who has studied shit for decades and has disagreements with each other for practically everything comes together to say trump's economic plan is absolutely bonkers. you can go ahead and stop responding cause i will too. this is why i disagree with blizzrd's stance of holding people like you in a higher regard; you think you're smarter than the actual experts who studies this shit for a living and think 4chan /pol/ memes has more credibility.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295684]Nothing I said I don't stand by. Reread my first post in this, I enjoy the heated and butthurt replies that's inevitable on this site when you don't have the correct opinion.[/QUOTE] "Correct opinion." No sorry, this is a site where you're expected to be able to back up your opinion and not troll relentlessly because of the fact that people are - gasp - challenging you on it. For the record many people do share your opinions but - like you - the vast majority of the time they've ran away from actually defending it. Much like your candidate.
[QUOTE=Komodoh;51295684]Nothing I said I don't stand by. Reread my first post in this, I enjoy the heated and butthurt replies that's inevitable on this site when you don't have the correct opinion.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I made the mistake of taking you seriously. Doesn't take a lot of facts to scare you off, eh?
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