The closest we came to war was when NK bombed those islands with artillery couple of years ago.
Unless something like that happens I'd say we're safe to assume that nothing will happen, again.
[editline]8th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;39846368]North Korea is not going to be an easy country to beat, stop shitting on them. They have one of the [B]largest[/B] militaries in the word. They have over A MILLION active military personnel, and are capable of conscripting six more million whenever shit goes south. They have stockpiles and stockpiles of tanks and artillery, the latter of which is aimed at Seoul ( So, in the end, the capital of South Korea WILL be blown to smithereens, many will die, and it will take years to repair and rebuild. ) They also have something like twenty nuclear silos, and we know they can shoot at least as far as Japan, meaning they can at will destroy South Korea. We don't know if those warheads can be intercepted in such a short distance.
Secondly, the North Korean military strategy and regime and just about everything is designed to counter the United States. They KNOW they have crappier equipment, and so they have designed tactics to circumvent that. Their propaganda statues are positioned at main roads to be destroyed and used as road blocks, they have bomb shelters in their apartment building, on and so forth. USA can't just NUKE them, nobody would let them, they would be killing countless of millions of innocent oppressed people. As for air superiority, sure, but - . . . Technology doesn't win in the air all the time, either. Serbia shot down supposedly 'invisible' American spy plains with old Russian equipment, probably as old or older than what North Korea has.
In finality, that'd be the bloodiest, cruellest war since WW2, and none of you should be looking forward to it. Millions will die.[/QUOTE]
"b-b-b-but technology and overhyped murrican military!"
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;39846368]North Korea is not going to be an easy country to beat, stop shitting on them. They have one of the [B]largest[/B] militaries in the word. They have over A MILLION active military personnel, and are capable of conscripting six more million whenever shit goes south. They have stockpiles and stockpiles of tanks and artillery, the latter of which is aimed at Seoul ( So, in the end, the capital of South Korea WILL be blown to smithereens, many will die, and it will take years to repair and rebuild. ) They also have something like twenty nuclear silos, and we know they can shoot at least as far as Japan, meaning they can at will destroy South Korea. We don't know if those warheads can be intercepted in such a short distance.
Secondly, the North Korean military strategy and regime and just about everything is designed to counter the United States. They KNOW they have crappier equipment, and so they have designed tactics to circumvent that. Their propaganda statues are positioned at main roads to be destroyed and used as road blocks, they have bomb shelters in their apartment building, on and so forth. USA can't just NUKE them, nobody would let them, they would be killing countless of millions of innocent oppressed people. As for air superiority, sure, but - . . . Technology doesn't win in the air all the time, either. Serbia shot down supposedly 'invisible' American spy plains with old Russian equipment, probably as old or older than what North Korea has.
In finality, that'd be the bloodiest, cruellest war since WW2, and none of you should be looking forward to it. Millions will die.[/QUOTE]
You're also forgetting that every successful nuclear test NK has had has been in pristine, perfect conditions needed for them to detonate. There's no guarantee they'd be able to do it successfully in a combat situation.
There's two sides here at the minute, those saying NK will be steam rolled and those saying they can quite easily wipe out Seoul. Everyone should dial back a bit and look at the facts before jumping to any one conclusion. One of the mods posted a really good read, if you're worried like I was, in one of the other NK threads at the moment. It put a lot of things in perspective.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39845843]Do they even have the logistical capabilities?
Do they have the ability to maintain their shitty, underfed, underarmed, undereducated, poverty-stricken, stunted soldiers who have a corrupt general staff, backwards military tactics and strategy, outdated equipment and are diplomatically isolated?[/QUOTE]
Remember the last time America tried to fight a war against a "really crazy and outdated" military?
[IMG]http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vietnam-war.jpg[/IMG]
This is all going to end in [radioactive] tears
[QUOTE=Ericson666;39846611]Remember the last time America tried to fight a war against a "really crazy and outdated" military?
[IMG]http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vietnam-war.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
North Vietnam was supported by China and Russia, they will not support NK in a war, they have nothing to gain from it.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;39844032]if NK does anything, it'll be (damn near) the shortest war in history
NK will lose of course[/QUOTE]
no one wins at war
[QUOTE=DrBreen;39846756]no one wins at war[/QUOTE]
one country will lose a bit less though
[QUOTE=Felgroove;39845367]Why would you say that?
Why do you think it improves your arguement? jesus christ[/QUOTE]
Because not only was he completely wrong in terms of technology and history,
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;39845557]An insurgency by definition means they were fighting the current government. So how exactly do you propose the war to topple Saddam's government started by fighting his insurgents?[/QUOTE]
I had no argument, don't know why you thought I was presenting one, I was stating facts.
[QUOTE=lapsus_;39844291]I foresee some states getting pissed at all that and teaching NK a lesson or two.[/QUOTE]
It could be the war version of that scene in Airplane where they keep slapping that nun.
Except replace hands/misc items with nukes/missiles.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;39846752]North Vietnam was supported by China and Russia, they will not support NK in a war, they have nothing to gain from it.[/QUOTE]
Still, they're dug in and have a good knowledge of the local area. Shit's intense in the jungle when you know that one wrong step could leave you legless from a land mine or the subject of an ambush
[QUOTE=Ericson666;39846611]Remember the last time America tried to fight a war against a "really crazy and outdated" military?
[IMG]http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vietnam-war.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
But North Vietnam was given a steady flow of supplies and armaments by their allies of the Soviet Union, and some minor help from China.
The United States was also fighting half way round the world and trying not to step on any Soviet toes and blow shit up.
North Korea, however, has no support from anyone, and as long as we don't pull a MacArthur, China will in no way be involved.
If China wants to get out of this quagmire called North Korea, they have to make a scheme with SK. Make a plan for a win-win situation. SK gets NK via transition, and China gets its borders secured.
[QUOTE=martijnp3000;39846789]one country will lose a bit less though[/QUOTE]
if you put the concept of sides aside, you'll see that everyone loses, humanity loses
It doesn't matter how shitty North Korea's rockets or soldiers are, if any war happens and Seoul isn't immediately and fully evacuated there is going to be massive loss of life.
North Korea doesn't stand a chance against the combined military mights of multiple countries, but I'm certain that before any real forces can get there, they can cause some real damage to south korea.
[QUOTE=Ericson666;39846611]Remember the last time America tried to fight a war against a "really crazy and outdated" military?
[IMG]http://www.britannica.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vietnam-war.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That was a Jungle, NK is a bunch of open ass fields and hills.
[QUOTE=Broguts;39847979]That was a Jungle, NK is a bunch of open ass fields and hills.[/QUOTE]
60% woodland and forest. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_North_Korea#Land_use[/url]
[QUOTE=GameDev;39844510]Why do I feel that if NK goes to war with someone they'll commit a bunch of war crimes[/QUOTE]Considering what they've done to their [I]own[/I] people, I have absolutely no doubt Nork soldiers would have no compunctions about doing similarly nasty shit to SK or US troops.
There was a link to a testimonly of a North Korean refugee in one of these NK threads detailing the absolutely sadistic shit they do to people in the gulags.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;39847910]But North Vietnam was given a steady flow of supplies and armaments by their allies of the Soviet Union, and some minor help from China.
The United States was also fighting half way round the world and trying not to step on any Soviet toes and blow shit up.
North Korea, however, has no support from anyone, and as long as we don't pull a MacArthur, China will in no way be involved.[/QUOTE]
And also, weren't we winning until we decided to pull out because of the protesting?
[QUOTE=PaChIrA;39848077]And also, weren't we winning until we decided to pull out because of the protesting?[/QUOTE]
That, and the massive constraints on RoE. At some points, towns were abandoned but filled with enemy equipment, but we still weren't allowed to bomb it, so infantry had to head in on foot into absolute death traps.
And, Vietnam is just bigger and a harder land to fight in. North Korea is mainly forests and hills, that are easier to traverse than Jungle and mountains.
[QUOTE=TestECull;39845815]It's not like. It is. That's all North Korea is. They're a whiny little shit that's throwing a temper tantrum on the world stage.[/QUOTE]
nah
[QUOTE=PaChIrA;39848077]And also, weren't we winning until we decided to pull out because of the protesting?[/QUOTE]
Define "winning"
As somewhat worrying as all this NK news is, it feels like we are about to see history made. If a war does break out, and nuclear weapons are used, it will go down in the history books as one of the most devastating wars of all time.
What if NK was going to destroy the planet, taking them with it? Leik venting the atmos or something.
Wouldn't the citizens of North Korea fight to the death, akin to WWII Japan?
[QUOTE=WarRocker32;39849388]Wouldn't the citizens of North Korea fight to the death, akin to WWII Japan?[/QUOTE]
No, absolutely not.
[QUOTE=martijnp3000;39846789]one country will lose a bit less though[/QUOTE]
[I]War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left[/I]
[QUOTE=teh pirate;39849420]No, absolutely not.[/QUOTE]
Ah. Gotcha. Just wondering, thanks.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;39849420]No, absolutely not.[/QUOTE]
uhh yes they will
they've been living under an enforced cult of personality for 60+ years, greater than anything since, like he said, WWII japan, and in many ways even greater
they genuinely believe that kim il-sung and his successors are divinity, and they've been brainwashed to believe that every single western country wants each individual north korean dead
they will most definitely take up arms
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;39849693]uhh yes they will
they've been living under an enforced cult of personality for 60+ years, greater than anything since, like he said, WWII japan, and in many ways even greater
they genuinely believe that kim il-sung and his successors are divinity, and they've been brainwashed to believe that every single western country wants each individual north korean dead
they will most definitely take up arms[/QUOTE]
It's important to note that it's difficult to make a distinction between those that really think this and those that act that way out of fear. If they all genuinely believed in this, there would be no defectors.
[QUOTE=Megafan;39849768]It's important to note that it's difficult to make a distinction between those that really think this and those that act that way out of fear. If they all genuinely believed in this, there would be no defectors.[/QUOTE]
Last question - how many of those defectors are run-of-the-mill North Korean citizens? I'm not sure what social class most of the NK defectors came from. A little explanation to me would be greatly appreciated, since I'm not too sure.
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