• America, where child porn is illegal but books on how to rape children aren't
    134 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;25540553]There's a limit to freedom of speech once it starts harming or threatening another group of people/person. The same reason why you can't make a web page dedicated to killing your next door neighbor Bob. And also, I never said suicide was illegal, but the [i]attempt[/i] of suicide is.[/QUOTE] No, the attempt of it isn't. Not in my country, and not in many others. Sorry the world isn't your specific state. And NO. You can post a site like that in the states, and IT CAN'T BE TAKEN DOWN. Look at sites like Stormtrooper or whatever that really racist site is. It's been around for years, and it openly talks about hate for everyone not white, it falls under hate speech, but it's protected? And this book isn't harming anyone, it has the potential to, but so does a fork. So does EVERYTHING ON EARTH.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540603]No, the attempt of it isn't. Not in my country, and not in many others. Sorry the world isn't your specific state. And NO. You can post a site like that in the states, and IT CAN'T BE TAKEN DOWN. Look at sites like Stormtrooper or whatever that really racist site is. It's been around for years, and it openly talks about hate for everyone not white, it falls under hate speech, but it's protected? And this book isn't harming anyone, it has the potential to, but so does a fork. So does EVERYTHING ON EARTH.[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure if you make a website saying "I am going to murder my neighbor" then yeah...it's kinda not protected
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540631]I am pretty sure if you make a website saying "I am going to murder my neighbor" then yeah...it's kinda not protected[/QUOTE] Yeah, on second thought, you're right on that one. However, you can say "hypothetically, I want to kill my neighbour" And it's protected. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] Just like you can say "I'm hypothetically going to kill the president." because the real phrase is actually illegal.
[url]http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=12082962[/url] An example where freedom of speech is limited when it comes to threats.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;25540756][url]http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=12082962[/url] An example where freedom of speech is limited when it comes to threats.[/QUOTE] They did that because it was racist and god damn it if racism isn't a bigger crime than killing someone in some peoples minds. Speech should never be silenced. NEVER.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;25540756][url]http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=12082962[/url] An example where freedom of speech is limited when it comes to threats.[/QUOTE] There's nothing wrong with that, I'm all for free speech but saying "I'm going to murder you" is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] Unless it's a joke then w/e [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] hmm...gotta wonder sometimes what constitutes as a joke
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540777]There's nothing wrong with that, I'm all for free speech but saying "I'm going to murder you" is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] Unless it's a joke then w/e[/QUOTE] On the same token, should "I'm going to hit you" be outlawed? "I'm going to steal from you", shouldn't ANYTHING that pertains to anything else illegal be illegal to say then? Free speech is either totally free, or not free at all.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540807]On the same token, should "I'm going to hit you" be outlawed? "I'm going to steal from you", shouldn't ANYTHING that pertains to anything else illegal be illegal to say then? Free speech is either totally free, or not free at all.[/QUOTE] I don't know what to tell you, serious threats should be dealt with somehow
[QUOTE=BlackWind;25534211]:wtc: [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] America is fucked up anyway.[/QUOTE] Avatar fits Have you ever lived in the US or are mummy and daddy always telling you how every government besides the Christian monarchy controlled government of Britain is corrupt?
You can't have "kind of" free speech. If you can't say what you want to say, you're not free to say anything at all. If you can't express yourself in the means you best need to, YOU DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540840]You can't have "kind of" free speech. If you can't say what you want to say, you're not free to say anything at all. If you can't express yourself in the means you best need to, YOU DO NOT LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY.[/QUOTE] I'm free to say anything as long as it doesn't have the possibility to incite a riot (such as yelling "BOMB" or "FIRE" in a theater) and a straight up threat. People shouldn't be allowed to threaten people with promises of murder, it's more dangerous to allow them than to not. In my opinion
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540821]I don't know what to tell you, serious threats should be dealt with somehow[/QUOTE] Yeah, they should be, but saying "i'm going to kill you" is such a common phrase in the english language, especially in the states and canada because it's just a way of saying "fuck you too man" and can thusly be interpreted wrong so many times, and leaves no ability to really be free. If you say it to a friend you have a falling out with, he can take it to the police and have you fucked in jail for the rest of your life if that's illegal. Does no one see how god damn wrong that is? You. Can. Not. Limit. Speech. Once you impose ONE god damn limit, you've taken away free speech, and you're just left with speech.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540862]Yeah, they should be, but saying "i'm going to kill you" is such a common phrase in the english language, especially in the states and canada because it's just a way of saying "fuck you too man" and can thusly be interpreted wrong so many times, and leaves no ability to really be free. If you say it to a friend you have a falling out with, he can take it to the police and have you fucked in jail for the rest of your life if that's illegal. Does no one see how god damn wrong that is? You. Can. Not. Limit. Speech. Once you impose ONE god damn limit, you've taken away free speech, and you're just left with speech.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't he be hardpressed to beat you in court though? [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] I mean seriously, the jury would understand if you said "it was just a joke as we are very close friends"
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540858]I'm free to say anything as long as it doesn't have the possibility to incite a riot (such as yelling "BOMB" or "FIRE" in a theater) and a straight up threat. People shouldn't be allowed to threaten people with promises of murder, it's more dangerous to allow them than to not. In my opinion[/QUOTE] Read post after yours. Yelling Fire in a theatre, or bomb on a plane is wrong, but should it be condemned? Maybe based on intent, if you intended to incite panic, riot, break the peace, etc, than maybe, but even then. It's a slippery slope once you start telling the people of a democracy what they can and can't say. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540881]Wouldn't he be hardpressed to beat you in court though? [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] I mean seriously, the jury would understand if you said "it was just a joke as we are very close friends"[/QUOTE] Do you know what a good lawyer can do for you? Just about anything. You can misconstrue evidence to mean just about anything you want it to. You can change your testimony to fuck with people, it's a sad state of affairs, but it's not a very fool proof system.
I understand what you mean fully, but I fear making it totally legal could make more problems. I understand what you mean completely, but I just don't know.
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540933]I understand what you mean fully, but I fear making it totally legal could make more problems. I understand what you mean completely, but I just don't know.[/QUOTE] As much as I want to say I do know, i don't fully know either. However, the idea of free speech being limited in any way is down right disturbing to me. Free speech is so incredibly important.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540956]As much as I want to say I do know, i don't fully know either. However, the idea of free speech being limited in any way is down right disturbing to me. Free speech is so incredibly important.[/QUOTE] I completely understand and agree, but I feel the right to feel safe should also be important
[QUOTE=The golden;25541007]Even when it means the publication of step-by-step instructions on how to rape a child? Personally, I think that's more disturbing.[/QUOTE] Should on the same token a book about how to use heroin be illegal? Yeah, it's fucking sick that someone would write that book, and [b]it's even sicker he found a publisher for it[/b]. Want to stop these people from doing that shit? Stop the publishers, but [b]legislation is never the way to go with speech.[/b] [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540996]I completely understand and agree, but I feel the right to feel safe should also be important[/QUOTE] Some people value their right to not be offended higher than free speech, it's not that way. I'd rather be able to say anything I want, than be "safe" by an arbitrary law of language. Banning a phrase leaves problems that you wouldn't even imagine, and ones that I can scarely imagine, it's such a far reaching problem that if you legislate anything into or against free speech, you've created a nightmare.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540775]They did that because it was racist and god damn it if racism isn't a bigger crime than killing someone in some peoples minds. Speech should never be silenced. NEVER.[/QUOTE] Using that info, a threatening or an extremely racist site should be taken down.
Has no one ever heard "I disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death you're right to say it."? That's how everyone should feel, once you bring the government into free speech, you're putting an elephant in the room.
someone buy me this book
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25540862]Yeah, they should be, but saying "i'm going to kill you" is such a common phrase in the english language, especially in the states and canada because it's just a way of saying "fuck you too man" and can thusly be interpreted wrong so many times, and leaves no ability to really be free. If you say it to a friend you have a falling out with, he can take it to the police and have you fucked in jail for the rest of your life if that's illegal. Does no one see how god damn wrong that is? You. Can. Not. Limit. Speech. Once you impose ONE god damn limit, you've taken away free speech, and you're just left with speech.[/QUOTE] I say this all the time. It's may be stupid, but it's how it is. The law simply says that you'd cross the line once your speech takes away someone else' speech.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;25541093]Using that info, a threatening or an extremely racist site should be taken down.[/QUOTE] And it's not, and I hope it never is. I disagree with what they say, but I'll defend to the death their right to say it. Why the fuck do you people not care about free speech? I'll laugh at you when this backfires on you, and tremendous amounts of language are stepped on because you think it's ok to make any amount of speech illegal.
for science [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] fuck my automerge
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;25540475]Historically it was illegal, and I mean...it being legal is kinda silly don't you think?[/QUOTE] No. It is that dumbass ideology that has the laws as monstrously fucked up as they are. Laws aren't meant to be a set of things the government 'disapproves' of. They are meant to protect the people and nothing else. Just because something is undesirable doesn't mean it should be made illegal, it means it's left up for the citizen to decide.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;25541137]I say this all the time. It's may be stupid, but it's how it is. The law simply says that you'd cross the line once your speech takes away someone else' speech.[/QUOTE] Saying it sarcastically would be illegal. Saying it would be illegal in all ways, because you MADE A PHRASE ILLEGAL. If you do that, you're going to make more phrases illegal because nutjobs will latch onto the idea of "oh, they did that, so it must be ok to further step on it." YOU CAN'T LIMIT FREE SPEECH. YOU JUST FUCKING CAN'T. And for every word and attempt to do so, you're not saving anyone, you're not making us safer, YOU'RE JUST BREAKING RIGHTS. Benjamen fucking Franklin "Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither, and will receiver neither". From memory, but the point stands. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=The golden;25541108]a) Using heroin is not the same as raping a child. b) I think you're missing the point. You're going on about free speech and censoring phrases. [B]This is fucking child rape we're talking about here. CHILD RAPE.[/B][/QUOTE] No. It's not child rape. IT'S A BOOK ABOUT IT. In the same fucking token, it's harmful if you think about THOUGHT crime. What? You want to make forks illegal because they have the potential to harm children too? Nerf the world why don't you. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25541100]Has no one ever heard "I disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death you're right to say it."? That's how everyone should feel, once you bring the government into free speech, you're putting an elephant in the room.[/QUOTE] Cmon, don't ignore the most important part of this. You're just trying to legislate morality. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister_Jack;25541147]No. It is that dumbass ideology that has the laws as monstrously fucked up as they are. Laws aren't meant to be a set of things the government 'disapproves' of. They are meant to protect the people and nothing else. Just because something is undesirable doesn't mean it should be made illegal, it means it's left up for the citizen to decide.[/QUOTE] Thank fuck someone gets it. However, in a republic like the states, it's not up to the people, the majority do not get to be a tyranny. No rights can be infringed, and having the government tell anyone "you can't say that" is so unbelievably wrong I can't believe anyone is defending it. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=HighdefGE;25541137]I say this all the time. It's may be stupid, but it's how it is. The law simply says that you'd cross the line once your speech takes away someone else' speech.[/QUOTE] Saying "I'm going to kill you" doesn't take away speech. ACTUALLY KILLING THEM DOES. Fuck, it's like you people support future/thought crime prevention.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25541172]Saying it sarcastically would be illegal. Saying it would be illegal in all ways, because you MADE A PHRASE ILLEGAL. If you do that, you're going to make more phrases illegal because nutjobs will latch onto the idea of "oh, they did that, so it must be ok to further step on it." YOU CAN'T LIMIT FREE SPEECH. YOU JUST FUCKING CAN'T. And for every word and attempt to do so, you're not saving anyone, you're not making us safer, YOU'RE JUST BREAKING RIGHTS. Benjamen fucking Franklin "Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither, and will receiver neither". From memory, but the point stands. [/QUOTE] Quotes won't save you from your own stupidity. You misunderstood me when I said there's a limit when your speech harms someone else. Also: [quote]YOU CAN'T LIMIT FREE SPEECH. YOU JUST FUCKING CAN'T.[/quote] The law can however.
[QUOTE=HighdefGE;25541285]Quotes won't save you from your own stupidity. You misunderstood me when I said there's a limit when your speech harms someone else. Also: The law can however.[/QUOTE] NO IT FUCKING CAN'T. Or at least it shouldn't. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] And nice way to ignore every fucking point and just continue on like you have a fucking argument. YOU'RE IGNORING EVERYTHING. You must support thoughtcrime, honestly. I didn't think anyone could be so fucking dense Hell, can you possibly be stupider? You don't have an argument, you don't have points, you've basically said "they should stop people from saying that" with no reasonable or logical backing. Either you're a troll, and you've clearly succeeded in angering me with your blatant disregard for human rights, or you're a masterful idiot of the left that wants nerf the fucking world.
In Britain, it's Illegal to have bullshit signs like "God hates fags" etc. at the same time, in Britain, if you had a sign like that you'd probably get the shit kicked out of you from "that hard guy with the gay cousin"
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;25541292]NO IT FUCKING CAN'T. Or at least it shouldn't. [editline]20th October 2010[/editline] And nice way to ignore every fucking point and just continue on like you have a fucking argument. YOU'RE IGNORING EVERYTHING. You must support thoughtcrime, honestly. I didn't think anyone could be so fucking dense[/QUOTE] I don't know why your taking this argument to a personal level. Also, if you've taken US History I in high school, you should've read up about this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_School_District_v._Fraser[/url]
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