• Leak Reveals New Border Vigilante Group on Arizona Border
    67 replies, posted
A couple rednecks want to start shit with huge drug cartels that are merciless and supplied as well as a small army? This wont end in someone innocent dead.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30846643]To be honest, I don't blame them. Arizona is constantly being ruined by crime from Mexico, and I think they have every right to protect their borders.[/QUOTE] Yes they do but the liberals and radical racists say it's wrong. - Radical being those who label everyone else racist for doing what is right, thus making themselves racist to the fact of pointing out such a thing.
[QUOTE=Last.Shinobi;30865615]Yes they do but the liberals and radical racists say it's wrong. - Radical being those who label everyone else racist for doing what is right, thus making themselves racist to the fact of pointing out such a thing.[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you talking about? Could someone decipher the last sentence there for me?
I think he's trying to say they're racist for ignoring the law, but that'd be the wrong terminology. I believe I know what he's trying to say though.
In the same way it's not okay for me to buy a $20 sheriff badge and police my neighborhood, it's not okay for these people to form a paramilitary organization. Petition the government, join the ng.
[QUOTE=Contag;30865774]In the same way it's not okay for me to buy a $20 sheriff badge and police my neighborhood, it's not okay for these people to form a paramilitary organization. Petition the government, join the ng.[/QUOTE] But at the same time we are supposed to maintain a citizen militia as well as a federal armed force. Jefferson said (approximately): "from time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants". From this we can assume that he means the government will not always serve those that it governs and when that occurs it is the obligation of the citizen to alleviate it of whatever is withholding it from doing its job.
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30865797]But at the same time we are supposed to maintain a citizen militia as well as a federal armed force. Jefferson said (approximately): "from time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants". From this we can assume that he means the government will not always serve those that it governs and when that occurs it is the obligation of the citizen to alleviate it of whatever is withholding it from doing its job.[/QUOTE] yes those dirty mexicans sure are tyrannical!
[QUOTE=Lazor;30865814]yes those dirty mexicans sure are tyrannical![/QUOTE] Dumb ass.
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30865820]Dumb ass.[/QUOTE] good retort
[QUOTE=Lazor;30865830]good retort[/QUOTE] Thank you. I enjoy moral support. I also found it to be equivalent to your retort.
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30865797]But at the same time we are supposed to maintain a citizen militia as well as a federal armed force. Jefferson said (approximately): "from time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants". From this we can assume that he means the government will not always serve those that it governs and when that occurs it is the obligation of the citizen to alleviate it of whatever is withholding it from doing its job.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately huge limits have been placed (illegitimately) on civilian militia and arms, so with the current government and legal framework, it's a bit of a moot point.
Maybe they should place tanks, machine gun emplacement, landmines, wild dogs punji sticks and barbwire while they are at it
As I citizen of Arizona I can say that this wont do much. hell the damn fence is so easy to get through they might as well put welcome signs up on the other side.
SHOOT THOSE FUCKING SPICKS FOR SETTING FOOT IN OUR GOD BLESSED AMERICA :bahgawd: Edit: Wow too bad smileys dont work anymore.
[QUOTE=OrionChronicles;30859995]Rednecks V. Druggies, this is something I have to watch for.[/QUOTE] Not druggies, drug smugglers, who don't give a fuck who you are, as long as you disrupt their trade they will come after you. Like stated before they kill people in broad daylight and can easily kill some one on american soil, then go back to mexico. They only care about their product which gives them money.
[QUOTE=Contag;30866029]Unfortunately huge limits have been placed (illegitimately) on civilian militia and arms, so with the current government and legal framework, it's a bit of a moot point.[/QUOTE] It's disappointing...
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30865769]I think he's trying to say they're racist for ignoring the law, but that'd be the wrong terminology. I believe I know what he's trying to say though.[/QUOTE] No what i said is basically, in simple terms, those who play the racist card are generally racist themselves for pointing out the race issue when originally it had nothing to do with race. and everyone knows the race card works well, it has politicans bending over backwards and in most situations where race is not a issue.
civilian militias are badass and every county should have one
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30846643]To be honest, I don't blame them. Arizona is constantly being ruined by crime from Mexico, and I think they have every right to protect their borders.[/QUOTE] Ok, but what worries me a lot is this: [quote]shut down a large section of freeway in central Arizona in an attempt to catch smugglers crossing through the desert[/quote] So I'm a Brazilian-born American. I'm white as hell and speak perfect English. My father on the other-hand, while he doesn't look entirely hispanic has the dead giveaway of the accent. Now imagine him driving through the desert and drives through this blockade. What if they stop him simply because he's foreign? What if he gets involved in all of this simply because some citizen thought he was a smuggler or something. Citizens are not trained to deal with this and it could evolve into something terrible. They might ask my dad to let them search the car. I'd refuse. They aren't law enforcement, they have no right to do so. The point is, when you aren't law enforcement you have no training, no standard operating procedure, and no real oversight. They will be prone to mistakes and innocent people may be hurt simply because they were trying to help the situation.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;30872499]Ok, but what worries me a lot is this: So I'm a Brazilian-born American. I'm white as hell and speak perfect English. My father on the other-hand, while he doesn't look entirely hispanic has the dead giveaway of the accent. Now imagine him driving through the desert and drives through this blockade. What if they stop him simply because he's foreign? What if he gets involved in all of this simply because some citizen thought he was a smuggler or something. Citizens are not trained to deal with this and it could evolve into something terrible. They might ask my dad to let them search the car. I'd refuse. They aren't law enforcement, they have no right to do so. The point is, when you aren't law enforcement you have no training, no standard operating procedure, and no real oversight. They will be prone to mistakes and innocent people may be hurt simply because they were trying to help the situation.[/QUOTE] And if they make mistakes they will be prosecuted. I agree that it poses a lot of danger having civilians take over something like this, but the government isn't doing what they want and has made them feel they're the only hope. Just sayin.
i say we should invade mexico and kill the cartels
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30872620]And if they make mistakes they will be prosecuted. I agree that it poses a lot of danger having civilians take over something like this, but the government isn't doing what they want and has made them feel they're the only hope. Just sayin.[/QUOTE] The problem is that this is a situation which has a clear potential to go wrong, and innocent people are probably going to be hurt when it does. It's a little bit irresponsible to say that we should wait until it does and then punish people who, though they fucked up, were admittedly only trying to help. It's going to be a lot better for everyone involved if that doesn't happen. Innocent people don't get shot and some other misguided people don't end up in jail. [editline]3rd July 2011[/editline] A feeling that you aren't being properly represented isn't really a justification for vigilantism.
I'm not necessarily saying wait til it happens. I support the military doing this, not the citizens. My point though is that its pathetic that citizens feel like they are the only ones left to do this because the government is sitting on its ass and making some people happy by not deploying the people who's job it is to defend our borders.
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30872620]And if they make mistakes they will be prosecuted. I agree that it poses a lot of danger having civilians take over something like this, but the government isn't doing what they want and has made them feel they're the only hope. Just sayin.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it still doesn't ignore the fact that they might end up irreversibly hurting someone. I understand the government isn't doing what they want, but that's the whole point of the democratic process. Lobby, campaign, write to representatives, protest, etc. Don't take matters into your own hands where it might end up harming innocent civilians, because the backlash against them accidentally injuring or killing someone will be terrible for their cause.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;30873485]Yes, but it still doesn't ignore the fact that they might end up irreversibly hurting someone. I understand the government isn't doing what they want, but that's the whole point of the democratic process. Lobby, campaign, write to representatives, protest, etc. Don't take matters into your own hands where it might end up harming innocent civilians, because the backlash against them accidentally injuring or killing someone will be terrible for their cause.[/QUOTE] Also don't forget that states have the right to take care of matters on their own, without the federal government. I also understand your concern for civilians, but isn't the problem right now that innocents are being harmed anyway? (not saying that it's acceptable just because it's already happening). If innocents are being harmed and the govt won't do anything then it's these people's obligation to do something about it.
Watch as the vigilante's are arrested and not the Cartels. Just watch. [QUOTE=zombieslaya;30850412]His SecondLife avatars are disturbing.[/QUOTE] [img]http://gyazo.com/13accba358859f7bd598cf030b732c75.png[/img] :v:
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30873658]Also don't forget that states have the right to take care of matters on their own, without the federal government. I also understand your concern for civilians, but isn't the problem right now that innocents are being harmed anyway? (not saying that it's acceptable just because it's already happening). If innocents are being harmed and the govt won't do anything then it's these people's obligation to do something about it.[/QUOTE] States have the right, implying state government does. I agree that innocent civilians are being hurt right now by the cartels, but doing this is only opening up the possibility of more lives being lost. How many people do they actually expect to catch? What happens when they find out the guy is actually smuggling? What if the guy pulls out a gun, and then bullets are flying everywhere possibly killing the smuggler, civilians, and even the guys holding the blockade. Before you know it 4 or 5 innocent people got killed in the crossfire. Now you've got 4 dead people that wouldn't have ever died in the first place had this event not happened. I know I'm taking this a bit too hypothetically, but I'm just saying it opens up the opportunity for a seriously bad event. As you can tell, I'm not very hopeful at all with this blockade doing anything. I understand where they are coming from, but if the police have a hard time tracking these guys down, a civilian blockade will be even less effective.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;30873909]States have the right, implying state government does. I agree that innocent civilians are being hurt right now by the cartels, but doing this is only opening up the possibility of more lives being lost. How many people do they actually expect to catch? What happens when they find out the guy is actually smuggling? What if the guy pulls out a gun, and then bullets are flying everywhere possibly killing the smuggler, civilians, and even the guys holding the blockade. Before you know it 4 or 5 innocent people got killed in the crossfire. Now you've got 4 dead people that wouldn't have ever died in the first place had this event not happened. I know I'm taking this a bit too hypothetically, but I'm just saying it opens up the opportunity for a seriously bad event. As you can tell, I'm not very hopeful at all with this blockade doing anything. I understand where they are coming from, but if the police have a hard time tracking these guys down, a civilian blockade will be even less effective.[/QUOTE] States reserve the right to organize and call upon a militia. To be honest I'm not quite sure if they plan on "catching" the runners. You're not being too hypothetical what you are saying is a legitimate concern, and even more of a reason why the govt. needs to handle this to protect its citizens from doing things themselves and butchering an operation like that. I don't know if anyone else watched it but I saw a documentary on the illegal immigration and there was a period where they deployed a national guard unit on the border. They had APC's, Humvees, fully loaded soldiers, and all the other fun stuff (including location sensing equipment to pick up movement) and the amount of people getting into AZ dropped dramatically. Then they got moved to "somewhere they were really needed". IMO someone in our government is physically stopping the protection of our borders, which would make them a traitor at least an accomplice in breaking the law wouldn't it?...
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30874030]States reserve the right to organize and call upon a militia. To be honest I'm not quite sure if they plan on "catching" the runners. You're not being too hypothetical what you are saying is a legitimate concern, and even more of a reason why the govt. needs to handle this to protect its citizens from doing things themselves and butchering an operation like that. I don't know if anyone else watched it but I saw a documentary on the illegal immigration and there was a period where they deployed a national guard unit on the border. They had APC's, Humvees, fully loaded soldiers, and all the other fun stuff (including location sensing equipment to pick up movement) and the amount of people getting into AZ dropped dramatically. Then they got moved to "somewhere they were really needed". IMO someone in our government is physically stopping the protection of our borders, which would make them a traitor at least an accomplice in breaking the law wouldn't it?...[/QUOTE] Treason is a bit severe. The border patrol issue is tricky because there's a lot of variables in play, and lots of different people trying to come in. Yes, there's the drug smugglers, cartel members and other such violent criminals who sneak across, but a majority are just civilians and other innocent people who are really only looking for a better life for themselves in the US. To call someone a traitor to the nation for reacting hastily to a tricky situation is a huge exaggeration.
[QUOTE=-Mud-;30874940]Treason is a bit severe. The border patrol issue is tricky because there's a lot of variables in play, and lots of different people trying to come in. Yes, there's the drug smugglers, cartel members and other such violent criminals who sneak across, but a majority are just civilians and other innocent people who are really only looking for a better life for themselves in the US. To call someone a traitor to the nation for reacting hastily to a tricky situation is a huge exaggeration.[/QUOTE] Well it would technically be a conscious direct act against the country so, treason would be a fitting term although possibly an extreme sentence. I know a lot of the people are just innocents looking to find a better life, but they are still breaking the law regardless in the same manner some people think that the minutemen are being vigilantes with good intentions and need to be shut down. The people letting them in might be acting in a moral manner in their mind but it is against the law. What should really be addressed is reforming the legal immigration into the country so that we can actually monitor who it is coming in and stop giving fuel to the smugglers.
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