Leak Reveals New Border Vigilante Group on Arizona Border
67 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30875179]Well it would technically be a conscious direct act against the country so, treason would be a fitting term although possibly an extreme sentence. I know a lot of the people are just innocents looking to find a better life, but they are still breaking the law regardless in the same manner some people think that the minutemen are being vigilantes with good intentions and need to be shut down. The people letting them in might be acting in a moral manner in their mind but it is against the law. What should really be addressed is reforming the legal immigration into the country so that we can actually monitor who it is coming in and stop giving fuel to the smugglers.[/QUOTE]
Treason in the United States is a [i]very[/i] severe charge, reserved typically only for those who deliberately and methodically sold out the nation to their enemies in a time of war. To claim that someone who only rerouted some National Guard troops is some sort of militant anti-American actively trying to subvert the nation is patently ridiculous.
But aside from that it seems we are in agreement that a lot of the people involved in either side of this issue are mostly just decent people affected by an unfair system, the labyrinthine legal immigration process and the government's unwilling to do anything about it. I'm all for immigration reform, but vigilante highway patrols aren't really an acceptable substitute until that comes about.
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;30872329]civilian militias are badass and every county should have one[/QUOTE]
Right because we need a bunch of vigilantes running around with the justification to kill someone based on their own moral principles.
[QUOTE=-Mud-;30876515]Treason in the United States is a [i]very[/i] severe charge, reserved typically only for those who deliberately and methodically sold out the nation to their enemies in a time of war. To claim that someone who only rerouted some National Guard troops is some sort of militant anti-American actively trying to subvert the nation is patently ridiculous.
But aside from that it seems we are in agreement that a lot of the people involved in either side of this issue are mostly just decent people affected by an unfair system, the labyrinthine legal immigration process and the government's unwilling to do anything about it. I'm all for immigration reform, but vigilante highway patrols aren't really an acceptable substitute until that comes about.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying they are anywhere near as malicious as possibly can be, I am saying that by definition a traitor is someone who intentionally and knowingly pursues a course that will harm the nation or is against what it wants, correct? I know that the treason punishment would never be pursued, I don't think it has since the Rosenbergs right? (The husband/wife that handed the nuclear technology over to the Soviets). I'm not calling for a capital punishment, I'm just trying to point out that these people are the ones that we are putting in place to make laws for us and aren't doing what we want (particularly in AZ)
Also, I understand first hand how much of a labyrinth our immigration system is as I am trying to move my gf from Canada into the US.. its ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Mr. America;30876916]I'm not saying they are anywhere near as malicious as possibly can be, I am saying that by definition a traitor is someone who intentionally and knowingly pursues a course that will harm the nation or is against what it wants, correct? I know that the treason punishment would never be pursued, I don't think it has since the Rosenbergs right? (The husband/wife that handed the nuclear technology over to the Soviets). I'm not calling for a capital punishment, I'm just trying to point out that these people are the ones that we are putting in place to make laws for us and aren't doing what we want (particularly in AZ)[/QUOTE]
Treason in the US is very strictly defined and taken very seriously as an accusation though. So much so that it's the only crime explicitly defined in the Constitution ("Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort") There are other crimes that would deal with the subversion you seem to think is occurring, treason isn't the one you're looking for, and aside from that it's a bit ridiculous to assume that whoever did this was actively trying to undermine the US, as the matter of intent does play into it.
There are legal and regulated ways to go about changing who is elected into office, vigilantism is not necessary.
[QUOTE=-Mud-;30877137]Treason in the US is very strictly defined and taken very seriously as an accusation though. So much so that it's the only crime explicitly defined in the Constitution ("Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort") There are other crimes that would deal with the subversion you seem to think is occurring, treason isn't the one you're looking for, and aside from that it's a bit ridiculous to assume that whoever did this was actively trying to undermine the US, as the matter of intent does play into it.
There are legal and regulated ways to go about changing who is elected into office, vigilantism is not necessary.[/QUOTE]
Treason may be the incorrect term if that is the wording in the constitution (I have not read the exact wording before but I will take your word on it). I do however think it is a little bit naive to think there is not a form of subversion occurring on some level. In a sense though, they are actively undermining the US by promoting a crime within its borders or actively not stopping when they have the ability to do so.
Vigilantism is not necessary, and is an absolute last resort that we should hope we don't have to ever resort to. You are correct.
Hope the vigilante group will be OK.
Interstate 8 is a pretty major road. The government has every right to intervene if random groups are shutting it down.
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