Sexist Humor No Laughing Matter, Psychologist Says
115 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;36054870]
But yeah, you are. Sure, you're not hitting anyone, but you're helping to perpetuate the climate of discrimination. I'm going to guess you're male. The problem with the "It's just a joke!" defense is that [I]you are part of the dominant group telling those with less power how they should respond[/I], when they are telling you they are being hurt or uncomfortable with what you consider humor. It is easy for you to say it's just a joke or you don't mean it and are just kidding because you're not the target and don't have to live in a society where you're the target of discrimination every day.
It just upholds the climate of demeaning and belittlement — as this article scientifically links it.
Attitudes like yours also make it signficantly harder for minorities to speak up. No one wants to be "that guy/girl" who can't take a joke, and women, especially online, are already in a weaker position socially and so there is extra pressure to not say anything so you can fit in.[/QUOTE]
I think theres a difference between being sexist towards someone who might take offense and laughing at a sexist joke. The exact same thing applies to racism, religious descrimination etc.
I agree with you about the whole 'taking a joke' thing, but I find many racist, sexist jokes pretty funny yet I wouldn't go and say one to a woman or black guy who I was unsure if they would take offense to it.
I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere on both sides though, there is a clear difference between targeting + humiliating/belittling someone and saying a bunch of harmless words. That line being that people who make sexist jokes/remarks need to do it without targetting someone or come across as hostile, and people who take offense to someone saying a few words in good humor that werent even aimed at anyone in particular need to take a chill pill.
I suppose the whole issue could be avoided if people just keep it to themselves though, or at least behind closed doors.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36055267]
Am I to understand that many of the jokes that these folks are saying are jokes that, in good ethics, should no longer be told?[/QUOTE]
context is important, and if someone were to, say, argue that the air of mutual respect that permeated these old roasts acted as a counter to their racist and sexist content they might have a point if they argued it really well
but for the average person in a regular context, like, eating lunch in the breakroom or posting on the internet then yes, they should avoid jokes like that if they dont want to reinforce those sorts of attitudes
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;36054870]BUT IT'S JUST A JOKE! IT'S FUNNY, IT'S NOT SERIOUS! I'M NOT HURTING ANYONE!
But yeah, you are. Sure, you're not hitting anyone, but you're helping to perpetuate the climate of discrimination. I'm going to guess you're male. The problem with the "It's just a joke!" defense is that [I]you are part of the dominant group telling those with less power how they should respond[/I], when they are telling you they are being hurt or uncomfortable with what you consider humor. It is easy for you to say it's just a joke or you don't mean it and are just kidding because you're not the target and don't have to live in a society where you're the target of discrimination every day.
It just upholds the climate of demeaning and belittlement — as this article scientifically links it.
Attitudes like yours also make it signficantly harder for minorities to speak up. No one wants to be "that guy/girl" who can't take a joke, and women, especially online, are already in a weaker position socially and so there is extra pressure to not say anything so you can fit in.[/QUOTE]
And that IS how they should respond, actual jokes are meant for pure enjoyment, it's the wordplay, that's what differentiates it from simple insults, everyone should be able to enjoy them, whether they're the ones the jokes is targeting or not.
It's like a painting, it doesn't matter what it pictures, the quality and the art is there and we should all appreciate it. (assuming it's not an insult)
[QUOTE=Cushie;36055342]That line being that people who make sexist jokes/remarks need to do it without targetting someone or come across as hostile, and people who take offense to someone saying a few words in good humor that werent even aimed at anyone in particular need to take a chill pill.[/QUOTE]
stop telling other people how they should feel. threads like these are always filled to the brim with people saying that other people should "not take things so seriously". yeah? how the hell do you know that they dont have their own, legitimate, personal reason for being upset? you don't know that.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36055087]The only reason I think no one should take jokes seriously is because they're jokes.[/QUOTE]
Lol niggers have big lips XD XD XD
It's just a joke dude it's not racist. Don't take it seriously.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36055267]Since I'm curious, I'd like folks here to take a look at these two clips from the old Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts. The first is Roland & Martin roasting Don Rickles, and the second is Don Rickles roasting Sammy Davis Jr. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEhXJjZ15o4[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPbJFjrbf20&feature=related[/media] Am I to understand that many of the jokes that these folks are saying are jokes that, in good ethics, should no longer be told?[/QUOTE] People used to laugh at this shit? It sort of disgusts me just to watch this.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36055267]Since I'm curious, I'd like folks here to take a look at these two clips from the old Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts. The first is Roland & Martin roasting Don Rickles, and the second is Don Rickles roasting Sammy Davis Jr.
Am I to understand that many of the jokes that these folks are saying are jokes that, in good ethics, should no longer be told?[/QUOTE]
I would laugh harder at my own autopsy.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36055357]context is important, and if someone were to, say, argue that the air of mutual respect that permeated these old roasts acted as a counter to their racist and sexist content they might have a point if they argued it really well
but for the average person in a regular context, like, eating lunch in the breakroom or posting on the internet then yes, they should avoid jokes like that if they dont want to reinforce those sorts of attitudes[/QUOTE]
I can kind of see where you're coming from though I would argue that "They clearly respected each other" is literally all that needs to be said when it comes to the roast. There doesn't need to be several paragraphs defending it because absolutely nothing that the roasters were saying was meant to be taken maliciously. Every aspect of it is in good humor and it's based in the respect they have for each other and the knowledge that none of the jokes should be taken seriously.
Personally (and I don't remember who said it), but I think the greatest of all possible worlds would be a world where anyone can make a joke about anyone and we all laugh at it and get along. We laugh about ourselves, we laugh about each other, and we all accept it as good humor. Personally, I think that would go further towards demonstrating respect for one another than any amount of "censorship" (for lack of a better word) could ever do.
i cant wait for the breaking bad platformer and mad men RTS
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36055418]People used to laugh at this shit? It sort of disgusts me just to watch this.[/QUOTE]
I'm laughing at it NOW. Seriously, this is the kind of stuff that's way too far over the line now? EVERYONE on the dais and in the audience are laughing, regardless of gender or race. Personally, I think that's beautiful!
Man, I guess something's wrong with me.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36055259]You're right, I was wrong about my views.[/QUOTE]
incorrect, the right answer was to spend six pages arguing semantics and get the thread locked
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36055434]
Personally (and I don't remember who said it), but I think the greatest of all possible worlds would be a world where anyone can make a joke about anyone and we all laugh at it and get along. We laugh about ourselves, we laugh about each other, and we all accept it as good humor. Personally, I think that would go further towards demonstrating respect for one another than any amount of "censorship" (for lack of a better word) could ever do.[/QUOTE]
well before you create a world where sexist jokes don't offend anyone: you have to create a world where sexism doesn't hurt anyone.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36055451]I'm laughing at it NOW. Seriously, this is the kind of stuff that's way too far over the line now? EVERYONE on the dais and in the audience are laughing, regardless of gender or race. Personally, I think that's beautiful! Man, I guess something's wrong with me.[/QUOTE] I'm not really offended, this just isn't funny. Maybe if I knew the guys, and these were inside jokes between friends. However, watching it now makes me cringe because it's humor that hasn't aged well.
I think that what this world needs is more sexism towards men.
Also, even if it's done in an air of mutual respect, that doesn't make it funny from an outsider's perspective. Jokes have context.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;36055434]Personally (and I don't remember who said it), but I think the greatest of all possible worlds would be a world where anyone can make a joke about anyone and we all laugh at it and get along. We laugh about ourselves, we laugh about each other, and we all accept it as good humor.[/QUOTE]
And that's definitely not going to happen as long as those jokes are used in a climate of oppression. Basically this:
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36055476]well before you create a world where sexist jokes don't offend anyone: you have to create a world where sexism doesn't hurt anyone.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36055479]I'm not really offended, this just isn't funny. Maybe if I knew the guys, and these were inside jokes between friends. However, watching it now makes me cringe because it's humor that hasn't aged well.[/QUOTE]
Personally, I think the humor has aged phenomenally well. That roast is more than 35 years old, and the fact that people today can still find it hilarious is amazing.
[editline]22nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;36055500]Also, even if it's done in an air of mutual respect, that doesn't make it funny from an outsider's perspective. Jokes have context.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I think because it's done in an air of mutual respect, it's funny for [I]everyone[/I]. Even with the jokes having content that preys on stereotypes, none of it is malicious. Not for a single second do I think ANY of those people are bad, or offensive, because I know that the jokes are in good humor.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36055400]stop telling other people how they should feel. threads like these are always filled to the brim with people saying that other people should "not take things so seriously". yeah? how the hell do you know that they dont have their own, legitimate, personal reason for being upset? you don't know that.[/QUOTE]
I agree, it applies to any kind joke, but people are going to keep telling them whether others get upset or not, so the solution is to take it at face value. How do you know I don't have a reason for telling people this? I have plenty of things I could get upset over when people indirectly talk or laugh about them yet I just laugh and carry on like nothing happened, and it saves a whole bunch of problems, I cant wrap my head around why other people would rather kick up a stink about a few non-hostile words than just find the humor in it. I understand just how it feels to be in the situation that MaxOfS2D described considering I had to endure constant bullying for years and years on end.
I dont know, I'm half and half on this whole thing. Sometimes I just dont get why anybody cares about any of it, its all just words and it feels so illogical to get so incredibly wound up about it, but at the same time I understand the anger at idiots who take it too far and are actually hostile and 'properly' sexist about stuff.
All I read was WHAAAAA I'M A LITTLE BABY AND CAN'T TAKE A JOKE AND NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT IT.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why Reply?" - Megafan))[/highlight]
This whole gender argument is a vicious fucking cycle that probably won't end anytime soon.
Can we start attempting to educate or inform the opposite side instead of immediately pointing fingers and calling everyone either bigots or prudes?
Flat-out attacking the other side is just going to make people all defensive.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36055138]You forgot, jokes are supposed to be funny. A joke =/= insult. Seems like some people on fp don't know the difference.[/QUOTE]
nothing insulting about telling 51% of the world population they're inferior beings its just a JOKE GET OVER IT
As someone who has aspergers, I have had to endure many "hur hur you have aspergers" jokes, especially on the internet. People don't realise that aspergers can affect a person's life in many ways, including negative ones. That's why I take it very personally wh-
Oh wait I remembered I have a fucking sense of humor and so don't get offended by jokes.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;36055675]Can we start attempting to educate or inform the opposite side instead of immediately pointing fingers and calling everyone either bigots or prudes?[/QUOTE]
That is [I]absolutely[/I] what people have been doing in this thread, and others.
I am simply amazed that certain people (Sigmalambda, Lazor in particular) haven't yet descended into simply telling people to eat shit over and over again. They've explained this shit [I]so many times[/I] in [I]so many threads[/I] that it's probably indelibly sintered into the surface of their goddamn brains by now.
Patience of saints, is what I'm saying. I'm glad that people seem to be finally catching on somewhat.
[editline]22nd May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;36055702]nothing insulting about telling 51% of the world population they're inferior beings its just a JOKE GET OVER IT[/QUOTE]
it's alright, he admitted he was wrong
[QUOTE=Kopimi;36055702]nothing insulting about telling 51% of the world population they're inferior beings its just a JOKE GET OVER IT[/QUOTE]You don't have to tell them.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36055769]You don't have to tell them.[/QUOTE]
er
I make Rape,death,Genocide and Miscarriage jokes all the time.Sexist Humor don't even tickle my balls in comparison.
[QUOTE=Flem;36054823]Womans rights[/QUOTE]
nice one
I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
I get why people can be offended by these jokes but what I don't get are the people who's opinion is swayed by said jokes. Now I, personally, feel that that sort of comedy is funny in moderation and when its not being used as a guise for attacking someone simply because I think that you can joke about anything. The thing is I keep the joke in the realm of humor and don't apply it to the real world. The problem that is being highlighted is that people actually do this for what ever reason.
Here is where I have a question: do people find these jokes offensive because they are made or because they know that someone may actually take it seriously; would it still be an issue if people didn't have the joke influence their thoughts?
[QUOTE=znk666;36056255]I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.[/QUOTE]
somehow this sentence alone is almost as offensive as any one of those jokes
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