Sexist Humor No Laughing Matter, Psychologist Says
115 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cone;36056320]somehow this sentence alone is almost as offensive as any one of those jokes[/QUOTE]It's only as offensive as you make it out to be
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36056343]It's only as offensive as you make it out to be[/QUOTE]
well when there's some pretty clear implications it shouldn't be considered the fault of the person seeing them, it should be a happy misunderstanding that'll be given a perfectly clear explanation
[QUOTE=Patriarch;36055704]As someone who has aspergers, I have had to endure many "hur hur you have aspergers" jokes, especially on the internet. People don't realise that aspergers can affect a person's life in many ways, including negative ones. That's why I take it very personally wh-
Oh wait I remembered I have a fucking sense of humor and so don't get offended by jokes.[/QUOTE]
it's great that you aren't hurt by insults and jokes about your condition. unfortunately, a lot of people do get actively harmed by these things so that doesn't make it automatically okay to do it just because one guy with the conditon is okay with it
[QUOTE=TheFilmSlacker;36056589]The number one rule of comedy is "don't limit yourself".[/QUOTE]
I think a better rule is "know your audience".
For example, the Holocaust Memorial Service is probably not the best time to tell your Anne Frank jokes.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;36056871]it's great that you aren't hurt by insults and jokes about your condition. unfortunately, a lot of people do get actively harmed by these things so that doesn't make it automatically okay to do it just because one guy with the conditon is okay with it[/QUOTE]
The problem is that because one person cannot handle a joke (and I do admit, there are many valid reasons as to why this may be), people automatically go "Welp, no more jokes about that then!", which in a way can almost come across as condescending to some people. As I have stated above, know you audience, but sometimes people should be allowed to make jokes without fear of repercussion. If a man constantly makes sexists jokes to his female cowoker, then it has probably passed the realm of joking and gone into bullying. On the other side, if you go to /v/ and get angry about how they call everyone autistic, fuck off.
sigma nailed it with the context point. if you and your girlfriend take ironic sexist rips at each other while laughing the whole time, that isn't really contributing to the centuries-old environment of oppression that's still in effect. telling a sexist joke to a large group does foster an environment of acceptance for this sort of behavior.
[QUOTE=TheHydra;36056871]it's great that you aren't hurt by insults and jokes about your condition. unfortunately, a lot of people do get actively harmed by these things so that doesn't make it automatically okay to do it just because one guy with the conditon is okay with it[/QUOTE]
Yes indeed, being a woman is a serious condition and we need to find a cure.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36056950]Yes indeed, being a woman is a serious condition and we need to find a cure.[/QUOTE]
i bet you feel really witty right now don't you
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36054798]that is because sexism against men isn't a vast social prejudice which has ensconced itself in every aspect of our society[/QUOTE]
The issue is that woman are all up in arms about any sweeping negative generalisations about their gender and then think they can get away with doing the same to us.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;36054870]BUT IT'S JUST A JOKE! IT'S FUNNY, IT'S NOT SERIOUS! I'M NOT HURTING ANYONE!
But yeah, you are. Sure, you're not hitting anyone, but you're helping to perpetuate the climate of discrimination. I'm going to guess you're male. The problem with the "It's just a joke!" defense is that [I]you are part of the dominant group telling those with less power how they should respond[/I], when they are telling you they are being hurt or uncomfortable with what you consider humor. It is easy for you to say it's just a joke or you don't mean it and are just kidding because you're not the target and don't have to live in a society where you're the target of discrimination every day.
It just upholds the climate of demeaning and belittlement — as this article scientifically links it.
Attitudes like yours also make it signficantly harder for minorities to speak up. No one wants to be "that guy/girl" who can't take a joke, and women, especially online, are already in a weaker position socially and so there is extra pressure to not say anything so you can fit in.[/QUOTE]
Is making fun of someone, no regard to whether it's unfriendly or friendly teasing, discrimination? And not only that but also makes the group look down on the target?
You seem to be ignorant to or ignore the fact that people can take jokes targeted at them, some better than others. I myself can laugh at jokes someone makes about me just as well as if it was about someone else. I also don't find jokes directed at a group of people any worse or more offensive than those directed at individuals, because they are based on generalizations which are known not to be taken too seriously. Someone who does take them seriously is likely a discriminating person or in a discriminating climate to begin with.
We don't know what kind of jokes were used in the research. If the jokes were portraying women as dislikeable and were really demeaning, it was effectively propaganda. As we know humans are vulnerable to being influenced. I'm certain they could have changed the target group of the jokes to anything and it would still have shown a decrease in support. We can't be sure of this though. The research essentially proves only that discriminative humor can be malign. Who would have guessed.
You clearly assume that the climate is inequal to begin with, so how do you know whether sexist jokes are its cause or a product? If women "have to live in a society where they're the target of discrimination every day", you've got way bigger problems than jokes, and you should be looking for the source instead.
As it has been said, know your audience. Whether you tell a joke to belittle someone or amuse everyone you try to get it to serve its purpose. You wouldn't tell a joke that you know will heighten the inequal climate unless that's what you want to cause.
Those people who can't take a joke? They better get used to it, because there's really nothing else they can do about it. Some seem to demand some kind of right to not be joked about, but that just doesn't work. In reality they get not only teased but possibly even bullied for that, because that right has no way to be enforced nor is it based on anything concrete. Of course, if we're talking about friends teasing each other and one of them finds it uneasy, you of course try not to direct jokes at him/her because of respect. But if we're talking about unfriendly teasing then there's no respect to speak of.
I can understand that someone can get offended about a discriminating joke that somehow insults them, even one made in goodwill, but someone being offended by a joke for no other reason than it being discriminatory is beyond my reasoning. It's like being offended because someone could be offended. The world would be a better place if people wouldn't be so offended.
Jokes are supposed to spread joy and happiness. Jokes intended to hurt someone aren't really jokes at all.
And something that wasn't intended to hurt shouldn't be taken heavily, but instead treated with tolerance.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;36057201]The issue is that woman are all up in arms about any sweeping negative generalisations about their gender and then think they can get away with doing the same to us.[/QUOTE] No one is "up in arms" for fuck's sake. Psychologists did some research that showed that sexist jokes help reinforce harmful stereotypes and legitimize discrimination. This isn't "up in arms". The international women's organization of the world hasn't sent anyone a memo telling all women to take up arms against men.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;36057201]The issue is that woman are all up in arms about any sweeping negative generalisations about their gender and then think they can get away with doing the same to us.[/QUOTE]
ok? even though this is for the most part bullshit, what is the issue? if you see women being sexist against men, call them out on it the same as you would men being sexist against women, literally nobody is saying you need to let anti-male sexism (as unpopular as it already is) slide
I like how this study uses a comparison of sexist jokes and amount of money donated to a women's organization as proof.
The best way to tell a sexist or racist joke is to exaggerate so much that it is obviously not your actual opinion and you are actually taking the piss out of the people who make normal sexist or racist jokes instead.
Alternatively you could make sure that you only ever tell them to people who you know for sure understand that it is just a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously, like those roasts but maybe without the studio audience.
Yeah it's called casual misogyny and it's just as shitty as regular old misogyny.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36056950]Yes indeed, being a woman is a serious condition and we need to find a cure.[/QUOTE]
you know at first I thought starpluck bought you that title because he had some weird grudge against you for some reason but it's more accurate than I woulda guessed
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;36055675]This whole gender argument is a vicious fucking cycle that probably won't end anytime soon.
Can we start attempting to educate or inform the opposite side instead of immediately pointing fingers and calling everyone either bigots or prudes?
Flat-out attacking the other side is just going to make people all defensive.[/QUOTE]
the oppressed don't have a duty to educate you. god damn son there's an entire fucking google at your lazy fingertips
[QUOTE=Lazor;36058596]the oppressed don't have a duty to educate you. god damn son there's an entire fucking google at your lazy fingertips[/QUOTE]
Google isn't a fucking answer machine, and it can be a greater learning experience to hear from the other side. That's the point of debating.
[QUOTE=Patriarch;36058916]Google isn't a fucking answer machine[/QUOTE]
are you kidding me that's EXACTLY what it is
[QUOTE=Lankist;36058923]are you kidding me that's EXACTLY what it is[/QUOTE]
No, it's a search engine. You type in a question and hope that you get a forum post providing a solution, but for questions that are more open-ended it is not that great, and not only because of the way it personalises your search results.
[QUOTE=Patriarch;36058947]No, it's a search engine. You type in a question and hope that you get a forum post providing a solution, but for questions that are more open-ended it is not that great, and not only because of the way it personalises your search results.[/QUOTE]
fine. don't use google. find some 101 reading material and fucking read it.
But sexist humor is only making fun of the idea of sexism, not promoting it, but instead mocking it.
I don't see a problem
[QUOTE=Pelvic Thrust;36058976]But sexist humor is only making fun of the idea of sexism, not promoting it, but instead mocking it.
I don't see a problem[/QUOTE]
that isn't even remotely true.
[editline]22nd May 2012[/editline]
there's no deep serious commentary to be had from "lol women, right?" being the punchline of a joke
[QUOTE=Lazor;36058965]fine. don't use google. find some 101 reading material and fucking read it.[/QUOTE]
If you're going to be an asshole, then why should I feel the need to research the subject you're defending? If you just call me an privileged and tell me to go read a book on the subject, I'm going to be put off reading that book. There's also the fact that there is a wide range of books, and so it can be a pretty daunting task to choose one.
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