• Israeli soldiers assault Reuters cameramen, force them to strip, suffocate them with tear gas, and s
    55 replies, posted
[QUOTE=nessman;38831223]Oh, so they die from the suffocation. That's good [editline]oops[/editline] I meant to say didn't die*[/QUOTE] Ah, I see what you meant now. Quite a funny thing how missing a single word can change the meaning of a whole post, isn't it?
[QUOTE=zombojoe;38832659]Shooting and killing a teen is not a good thing, but neither is throwing stones at armed men and threatening them with what one could mistake as a real gun. Arguing about which one is worse is just plain retarded. The world is not black and white and I really wish Starpluck could open his eyes to see that.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/URL] This is not about Israeli soldiers' eagerness to kill Palestinians, it was about you trying to exonerate Israeli soldiers from extensively torturing media personnel. Making fictitious arguments and then refuting them doesn't mean jackshit.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;38831651] Shooting and killing a teen is not a good thing, but neither is throwing stones at armed men and threatening them with what one could mistake as a real gun. Arguing about which one is worse is just plain retarded. The world is not black and white and I really wish Starpluck could open his eyes to see that. [/QUOTE] The world is very much black and white when it comes to events like that. Killing a kid is far worse that pointing a toy gun at someone.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38837496]The world is very much black and white when it comes to events like that. Killing a kid is far worse that pointing a toy gun at someone.[/QUOTE] And if you only knew it was a toy after the fact?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38839837]And if you only knew it was a toy after the fact?[/QUOTE] There really aren't contingencies in place for dealing with non immediately hostile contacts? Is their plan really just "shoot anything that looks threatening because we have no method of telling if something actually is or not"? I mean fuck give me an hour and a chalkboard and I could come up with a better plan than "kill everyone with gun shaped objects". In the IDF do they just teach them how to point and shoot and then send them out the door with a fond slap on the bum or something? [editline]15th December 2012[/editline] I just can't believe that as police/anti terror units they get absolutely no training in handling these situations non lethally. Command would literally have to consist of rabid Bonobos if they're that ill prepared.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38839837]And if you only knew it was a toy after the fact?[/QUOTE] They're trained, you don't just blow to bits someone who appears to be holding a gun, you make sure he is a threat first.
It seems to me that Israel is starting to become something like the ones they used to fear (Nazi Germany if you don't get what I mean)
"Israel a terrorist nation that massacres little children" - Prime minister of Turkey
[QUOTE=laserguided;38840337]"Israel a terrorist nation that massacres little children" - Prime minister of Turkey[/QUOTE] well they literally killed a kid so
[QUOTE=laserguided;38840337]"Israel a terrorist nation that massacres little children" - Prime minister of Turkey[/QUOTE] "You see, the problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never be entirely sure who actually said them, or if anyone even said them at all!" -Osama Bin Laden
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38840846]"You see, the problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never be entirely sure who actually said them, or if anyone even said them at all!" -Osama Bin Laden[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i5X7F40V78upvkdL8TryCLszXVTw[/url]
[QUOTE=laserguided;38840919][url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i5X7F40V78upvkdL8TryCLszXVTw[/url][/QUOTE] Well... Fuck... :smith:
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38840977]Well... Fuck... :smith:[/QUOTE] THERE WAS A WHOLE THREAD ABOUT IT [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1227153[/url] WELL FUCK INDEED
[url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-idf-video-shows-israeli-officer-shooting-palestinian-who-attacked-guard.premium-1.485462[/url] For anyone who thinks that killing the kid wasn't justified. I mean he literally beat the shit out of that soldier, and then pulled a toy gun, who in their right mind wouldn't shoot? The soldier couldn't take that chance, it wasn't just some 12 y/o kid who pulled out a colored toy gun, it was a 17 y/o, almost a man grown, who brutally attacked a soldier, and then pulled out a toy gun, which is pretty hard to notice the difference in the night, and with all the adrenaline as well, I know I'd do the same thing and wouldn't regret it. That 17 y/o "kid" knew what could happen to him if he did this, he knew exactly the rules of engagement, he's not some innocent little kiddo like you make him out to be.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;38868024] I mean he literally beat the shit out of that soldier, and then pulled a toy gun, who in their right mind wouldn't shoot? [B]The soldier couldn't take that chance, it wasn't just some 12 y/o kid who pulled out a colored toy gun, it was a 17 y/o, almost a man grown, who brutally attacked a soldier, and then pulled out a toy gun, which is pretty hard to notice the difference in the night, and with all the adrenaline as well, I know I'd do the same thing and wouldn't regret it.[/B] That 17 y/o "kid" knew what could happen to him if he did this, he knew exactly the rules of engagement, he's not some innocent little kiddo like you make him out to be.[/QUOTE] poor training tbh, while 17 y/os aren't exactly kids, if you have them beating up a soldier and other soldiers not doing anything something is wrong. also don't link articles we can't read "[B]The full text is available for subscribers & registered users.[/B]Click here to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/promotions"]subscribe[/URL] ($1 for the first 4 weeks) [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-idf-video-shows-israeli-officer-shooting-palestinian-who-attacked-guard.premium-1.485462"]register[/URL] (free access for 10 stories a month) or [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-idf-video-shows-israeli-officer-shooting-palestinian-who-attacked-guard.premium-1.485462#"]login[/URL]"
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;38868024][url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-idf-video-shows-israeli-officer-shooting-palestinian-who-attacked-guard.premium-1.485462[/url] For anyone who thinks that killing the kid wasn't justified. I mean he literally beat the shit out of that soldier, and then pulled a toy gun, who in their right mind wouldn't shoot? The soldier couldn't take that chance, it wasn't just some 12 y/o kid who pulled out a colored toy gun, it was a 17 y/o, almost a man grown, who brutally attacked a soldier, and then pulled out a toy gun, which is pretty hard to notice the difference in the night, and with all the adrenaline as well, I know I'd do the same thing and wouldn't regret it. That 17 y/o "kid" knew what could happen to him if he did this, he knew exactly the rules of engagement, he's not some innocent little kiddo like you make him out to be.[/QUOTE] IDF soldiers are hilariously inept and stupid, so maybe improve before just sending them out and giving them a licence to kill anyone who are rather upset about their whole being occupied thing. And I'm not surprised you wouldn't feel any remorse of killing a kid. You are the person who consistently defends it.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;38868205]poor training tbh, while 17 y/os aren't exactly kids, if you have them beating up a soldier and other soldiers not doing anything something is wrong. also don't link articles we can't read "[B]The full text is available for subscribers & registered users.[/B]Click here to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/promotions"]subscribe[/URL] ($1 for the first 4 weeks) [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-idf-video-shows-israeli-officer-shooting-palestinian-who-attacked-guard.premium-1.485462"]register[/URL] (free access for 10 stories a month) or [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/watch-idf-video-shows-israeli-officer-shooting-palestinian-who-attacked-guard.premium-1.485462#"]login[/URL]"[/QUOTE] So basically you're saying it's not the kid's fault, but the soldier's, because he got caught by surprise? And I don't know why the link's not working for you but for me it works. And governor goblin, I wouldn't regret shooting someone who brutally assaulted my friend and then pulled out a gun. Even if it was a toy gun, I wouldn't wait to check - it was obvious that kid want to hurt the soldier and hurt him bad, if he pulled out a gun I wouldn't even think of the possibility that it was a toy gun., I'd knew my friend was in mortal danger and do what I had to do. That is entirely different than, for exmaple, what happened in the article in this thread, which is why the army is investigating the case and all the top figures condemned it, while the soldier who shot the assaulting kid is praised as a hero. Yeah, it sounds awful, "a soldier who shot and killed a kid is praised as a hero". It truly does. But when you really learn what happened, it's clear that the soldier did everything according to basic rules of engagement and moral conduct. Can you just imagine being there instead of the soldier, watching your friend being brutally attacked at night, noticing the suspect pulling out what seems to be a gun and pointing it at you or at your friend, and not shooting? This is basic self defence. And I'm not gonna let you guys spin this all the way around.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;38869086]So basically you're saying it's not the kid's fault, but the soldier's, because he got caught by surprise?[/QUOTE] I don't know the situation, and this is a very situational thing from what I've gathered from your post it sounded like the kid spent a bit of time beating down the soldier before pulling out the toy gun. I'm not sure if that was the case or not but if it was then other soldiers should have hit him off of him, instead of just shooting. Again, I need more details which I can't read
With what we know so far, I agree with BurnEmDown on this. I just wish the Israeli media wasn't overly gleeful about calling the border guard "heroic" for shooting and killing a member of an oppressed population.
The conversation shouldn't be how entirely right the idiot on the border was, but what prompted it.
For some reason I can't access the article page either. I found the video on youtube but I can't link ot either (I'm on my ). If you look for the user idfinarabic it's supposed to be the latest video they've uploaded. Watch ot and let me know of anyone here still thinks the "kid" was innocent.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38840846]"You see, the problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never be entirely sure who actually said them, or if anyone even said them at all!" -Osama Bin Laden[/QUOTE] You know what they say.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;38872608]For some reason I can't access the article page either. I found the video on youtube but I can't link ot either (I'm on my ). If you look for the user idfinarabic it's supposed to be the latest video they've uploaded. Watch ot and let me know of anyone here still thinks the "kid" was innocent.[/QUOTE] Doesn't justify anything Israel has ever done except this one incident. Matter of fact it sheds light on the reasoning behind the kids attack.
Why are we sending these people our money again?
Because of Evangelicals and AIPAC, realpolitik has something to do with it as well.
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