North Korea ends non-aggression pacts with South, cuts hotline
254 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39838329]how so? can you cite examples? the red army was completely under-equipped in 1941.[/QUOTE]
At the beginning they were, and the Germans absolutely flattened them because of it. North Korea however is a tiny country, and their army/arms industry has nowhere to retreat to, unlike the case where the soviet union moved it's armor and arms production across the Volga, a tremendous distance from the front lines.
As for modern comparisons, North Korean soldiers are not equipped with any primary weapon optics, making them vastly worse at 100+ meter combat ranges. Almost all NATO soldiers have optics systems on their weapons. North Korean infantry are equipped with a basic military uniform. Average NATO soldier is equipped with varying quantities of silicon carbide impact plates. Average western soldier has received bar-none training, often including advanced simulations. NATO has had plenty of combined war experience, whereas North Korea has not fought a war in 60 years.
Majority of tanks in North Korean arsenal are comprised of T62 and T72 derivatives which are utterly inferior to western MBTs. They might have Tungsten or DU ammunition, but given their financial state and complete lack of a nuclear program until recently it's unlikely they have either of those in quantity, and steel penetrators/outdated HEAT ammunition is nearly worthless against modern composite armors.
Frankly I'm not sure what their current airpower arsenal is like, but their prospects are probably pretty grim as well.
It doesn't matter how much manpower they have. Not to mention the fact that the citizens loyalty to the country is entirely based upon an impressive array of lies that the government has spun for 60 years, who's to say that they won't face mass desertion the second they get out of the gate?
I know it's fun to make fun of North Korea and say how easily the world could wipe the floor with them, but really, underestimating an enemy is a fatal mistake.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;39838321]I am pretty sure that the North Korean military is actually treated quite well since it is practically all that they have. The famine only really affects the citizens since basically the entire country is poured into their military(something like 25% of their GDP is Military Expenditures).[/QUOTE]
They have something like 1000 Calorie a day rations.
It's barely above starvation.
I think we can all agree if North Korea goes to War they will be bombed to hell but what is to worry about is Civilian death's and economy fuck up's will hapend with Seoul get's blown to hell from NK
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;39838494]I know it's fun to make fun of North Korea and say how easily the world could wipe the floor with them, but really, underestimating an enemy is a fatal mistake.[/QUOTE]
Not in the case of North Korea.
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;39838494]I know it's fun to make fun of North Korea and say how easily the world could wipe the floor with them, but really, underestimating an enemy is a fatal mistake.[/QUOTE]
They dont have much going for them, Its basically gonna be another american-emperial japanese style weed-out battle.
They hardly have enough fuel to reach the south-korean ocean, let alone a supply network strong enough to maintain a frontline, theyll have a very short-lived initiative, and its quickly gonna become a war on america's terms.
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;39838494]I know it's fun to make fun of North Korea and say how easily the world could wipe the floor with them, but really, underestimating an enemy is a fatal mistake.[/QUOTE]
Well considering we know everything they have, how they train their troops, and what/how TBMs will be employed. It makes it a lot easier.
[QUOTE=jordguitar;39838412]There isnt much to say because all they did was stop talking to south korea
nothing else. when things actually happen then leaders will talk.[/QUOTE]
And what happens when the talking is through on both sides? They normally start throwing punches soon afterwards. If the shit hits the fan, oh well, war is always going to be a staple of humanity I'm afraid.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;39838482]At the beginning they were, and the Germans absolutely flattened them because of it. North Korea however is a tiny country, and their army/arms industry has nowhere to retreat to, unlike the case where the soviet union moved it's armor and arms production across the Volga, a tremendous distance from the front lines.
As for modern comparisons, North Korean soldiers are not equipped with any primary weapon optics, making them vastly worse at 100+ meter combat ranges. Almost all NATO soldiers have optics systems on their weapons. North Korean infantry are equipped with a basic military uniform. Average NATO soldier is equipped with varying quantities of silicon carbide impact plates. Average western soldier has received bar-none training, often including advanced simulations. NATO has had plenty of combined war experience, whereas North Korea has not fought a war in 60 years.
Majority of tanks in North Korean arsenal are comprised of T62 and T72 derivatives which are utterly inferior to western MBTs. They might have Tungsten or DU ammunition, but given their financial state and complete lack of a nuclear program until recently it's unlikely they have either of those in quantity, and steel penetrators/outdated HEAT ammunition is nearly worthless against modern composite armors.
Frankly I'm not sure what their current airpower arsenal is like, but their prospects are probably pretty grim as well.
It doesn't matter how much manpower they have. Not to mention the fact that the citizens loyalty to the country is entirely based upon an impressive array of lies that the government has spun for 60 years, who's to say that they won't face mass desertion the second they get out of the gate?[/QUOTE]
It would be gulf war all over again.
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;39838494]I know it's fun to make fun of North Korea and say how easily the world could wipe the floor with them, but really, underestimating an enemy is a fatal mistake.[/QUOTE]
In general you have a point, but it's very hard to underestimate a country like the DPRK, honestly I think far more people overestimate them than those who underestimate them.
[QUOTE=Fort83;39838553]Still, expect the unexpected. Don't underestimate them.[/QUOTE]
Its very hard not to.
Because they're shit.
We can argue the merits of the power of Nork's army all we want, but they're only a button press from leveling Seoul and much of the South. They have so much artillery and cud-like missiles that can't be countered except to fire back by plane or artillery, and by that point it might be too late. Then there's the underground tunnels- we have no clue what's going on underground, and we know that they have tunnels leading into South Korea. And if they could get a nuke across the border...it's game over.
And even if the army is starving, early victories through massive damage to South Korea, and attrition and perhaps even some decent maneuvering could boost morale in the Norks and lead to a long-ass war of just widdling away of NK forces. As we've seen in basically every asymmetrical war ever, you don't need to be powerful to win a war- you just need to wear down the enemy enough. This probably wouldn't be the case, but I wouldn't doubt it either- an army of desperate, brainwashed ideologues is a formidable force.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];39838576']We can argue the merits of the power of Nork's army all we want, but they're only a button press from leveling Seoul and much of the South. They have so much artillery and cud-like missiles that can't be countered except to fire back by plane or artillery, and by that point it might be too late. Then there's the underground tunnels- we have no clue what's going on underground, and we know that they have tunnels leading into South Korea. And if they could get a nuke across the border...it's game over.
[/QUOTE]
If they're seriously stupid enough to nuke south korea, they're going to get steamrolled by EVERYONE.
I heard somewhere that part of north korea's military outfit still has t-34 tanks
[QUOTE=Fort83;39838604]I wouldn't put it past NK to do something insane and stupid like that.[/QUOTE]
Basically if they do anything they're going to get buttfucked all over, so if theres any sanity left in that country, they'll just keep dick waving and pussy out.
I wounder how this would effect Japan
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;39838624]I wounder if Japan or how badly Japan would get fucked over by this[/QUOTE]
What?
For the world's sake:
[IMG]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2019/2071702334_eb7647218c_z.jpg?zz=1[/IMG]
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;39838624]I wounder if Japan or how badly Japan would get fucked over by this[/QUOTE]
uuuh, north korea doesnt have a navy
[QUOTE=gman003-main;39838025]And one of the shittiest. They're poorly-trained, poorly-equipped, and have the kind of morale you'd expect from soldiers who have never fought anyone except their own citizens, spend more time harvesting crops than drilling, and whose families are literally starving.
Meanwhile SK and the US (who has 20,000 troops or so stationed in SK) will be fielding modern, mechanized infantry and armored cavalry, with heavily integrated support services and all-but-guaranteed air supremacy. And not a small portion of the US soldiers will be veterans of either Iraq or Afghanistan - not exactly the best opponents to train against, but far better than nothing. To say nothing of the heavily-mined, heavily-fortified border complete with goddamn automatic sentry guns.[/QUOTE]
Weapons are still weapons and north korea has a ton. I talked about this while helping teach a class today on military force. While they still have their weapons, It's very important to realize that they just don't have the infrastructure, but a gun is a gun, it's still deadly. It'd be bad for NK but possibly even worse tactically if you go in this gun ho.
[QUOTE=Sprockethead;39838598]I heard somewhere that part of north korea's military outfit still has t-34 tanks[/QUOTE]
You know your military is bad when your hardware is in other country's museums
If a full out conflict broke out I just can't see North Korea lasting more than 2 weeks. The only real issue is how to do it without Seoul being destroyed by artillery
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];39838576']We can argue the merits of the power of Nork's army all we want, but they're only a button press from leveling Seoul and much of the South. They have so much artillery and cud-like missiles that can't be countered except to fire back by plane or artillery, and by that point it might be too late. Then there's the underground tunnels- we have no clue what's going on underground, and we know that they have tunnels leading into South Korea. And if they could get a nuke across the border...it's game over.
And even if the army is starving, early victories through massive damage to South Korea, and attrition and perhaps even some decent maneuvering could boost morale in the Norks and lead to a long-ass war of just widdling away of NK forces. As we've seen in basically every asymmetrical war ever, you don't need to be powerful to win a war- you just need to wear down the enemy enough. This probably wouldn't be the case, but I wouldn't doubt it either- an army of desperate, brainwashed ideologues is a formidable force.[/QUOTE]
Another thing is available transport. USA would take some time to deploy while they wouldn't probably be able to mount a counter offensive until they reached a military controlled area. It's very important that we get there asap.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;39838587]If they're seriously stupid enough to nuke south korea, they're going to get steamrolled by EVERYONE.[/QUOTE]
They don't need to nuke them. They have enough arty positioned to hit Seoul that they could level the city before we can scramble fighters. We know they have enough, and that's not counting the number of hidden guns.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];39838726']They don't need to nuke them. They have enough arty positioned to hit Seoul that they could level the city before we can scramble fighters. We know they have enough, and that's not counting the number of hidden guns.[/QUOTE]
Nah, read somewhere that it would take several days or weeks to level Seoul with the artillery.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;39838676]Another thing is available transport. USA would take some time to deploy while they wouldn't probably be able to mount a counter offensive until they reached a military controlled area. It's very important that we get there asap.[/QUOTE]
We've already got the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_United_States_Army]Eighth Army[/url] over there. Mainly the Second Infantry Division, which despite the name includes everything from infantry to armor to aviation, even special forces and signals.
So yeah, we don't need to "get there". We're already there, and by the time we get reinforcements, the war will be won.
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;39838676]Another thing is available transport. USA would take some time to deploy while they wouldn't probably be able to mount a counter offensive until they reached a military controlled area. It's very important that we get there asap.[/QUOTE]
We already have aircraft/munitions in South Korea ready to go at a moments notice. NK isn't going to do a full-out personnel ground assault, they're probably going to launch their shitty TBMs from the DMZ into SK, mine the water-ways, then shell/"SCUD fuck" Seoul and the NW Islands.
[QUOTE=zombini;39838746]Nah, read somewhere that it would take several days or weeks to level Seoul with the artillery.[/QUOTE]
This seems to be true, after reading up on it.
Hypothetically, NK would surely lose in a long-term war.
However, they would surely be able to cause a lot of causalities if they choose to act with their nuclear weapons, so it's not like we can just rush into NK and start shooting them. It's a lot like chess, every move counts and you've got to play for both the battle (short term) and the war (long term).
[QUOTE=SockFC;39838794]Hypothetically, NK would surely lose in a long-term war.
However, they would surely be able to cause a lot of causalities if they choose to act with their nuclear weapons, so it's not like we can just rush into NK and start shooting them. It's a lot like chess, every move counts and you've got to play for both the battle (short term) and the war (long term).[/QUOTE]
Yes, basically what people are worried about is how much damage the Nk's are able to do before bleeding out. It might be containable, it might be significant. Its very hard to say.
My money are on the Nk's breaking off quickly.
This isn't the first time they've cut off the hotline anyway I believe. I would still be surprised if they did anything more.
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