• The Netherlands’ New Dietary Guidelines Take Meat Off The Menu
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[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50109533]With modern medical knowledge, no. We don't. It is entirely possible to live healthily on a completely vegetarian (or even vegan, with some very meticulous planning).[/QUOTE] Even the best vegetarian diet is less healthy than one that includes small amounts of meat. The more data that comes in the more this seems to be true.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50109550]Even the best vegetarian diet is less healthy than one that includes small amounts of meat. The more data that comes in the more this seems to be true.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that it's the healthiest possible diet, I'm saying that it is possible to be in good physical health eating a purely vegetarian diet, if it is well-thought out. I myself eat meat, and I do it because it tastes good and makes me happy. But at the same time I don't go around telling vegetarians that they're stupid and deluded and that meat is [I]absolutely essential[/I] for life, because it clearly isn't. Maybe you'll live a few years shorter than people on an optimum diet with some meat in it, but so would people who eat too much meat, or people who smoke, or people who drink a lot. People like TestECull piss me off because they refuse to even consider the advantages of a meat-free diet while firmly entrenching themselves in their position using spurious arguments about how we evolved to eat meat and therefore we [I]must[/I] eat meat.
I'm Dutch and literally have no idea what this article is talking about. The new guidelines published say [i]as a guideline:[/i] One day fish, one day legumes, one day nuts, two days beef or pork and two days chicken or other poultry It goes on to say that in place of the meat can also eat tofu, tempeh, egg or eat legumes or nuts again.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50109583]I'm not saying that it's the healthiest possible diet, I'm saying that it is possible to be in good physical health eating a purely vegetarian diet, if it is well-thought out. I myself eat meat, and I do it because it tastes good and makes me happy. But at the same time I don't go around telling vegetarians that they're stupid and deluded and that meat is [I]absolutely essential[/I] for life, because it clearly isn't. Maybe you'll live a few years shorter than people on an optimum diet with some meat in it, but so would people who eat too much meat, or people who smoke, or people who drink a lot. People like TestECull piss me off because they refuse to even consider the advantages of a meat-free diet while firmly entrenching themselves in their position using spurious arguments about how we evolved to eat meat and therefore we [I]must[/I] eat meat.[/QUOTE] You're arguing against your own biology, not me. The only advantages I can see to a meat-free diet are 'I haven't caused the death of any cows or piggies or chickens'. The food's less tasty, more expensive, you need to plan every meal out or go malnourished, people give you funny looks, going out to eat is a bitch and a half....bah. It ain't worth the hassle. Enjoy a steak.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109637]You're arguing against your own biology, not me. The only advantages I can see to a meat-free diet are 'I haven't caused the death of any cows or piggies or chickens'. The food's less tasty, more expensive, you need to plan every meal out or go malnourished, people give you funny looks, going out to eat is a bitch and a half....bah. It ain't worth the hassle. Enjoy a steak.[/QUOTE] My biology says that I need a certain complement of amino acids, vitamins, and minerals. How I get these is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109637]You're arguing against your own biology, not me. The only advantages I can see to a meat-free diet are 'I haven't caused the death of any cows or piggies or chickens'. The food's less tasty, more expensive, you need to plan every meal out or go malnourished, people give you funny looks, going out to eat is a bitch and a half....bah. It ain't worth the hassle. Enjoy a steak.[/QUOTE] If meat it isn't considered expensive currently, then it will probably become so in the future as the ecological impact of meat production is pretty severe. It's not the intake of meat that's the main problem, it's the production. Meat production is an absolutely horrible "investment" in energy and other resources for the amount of food we get out of it. Not that I plan on quitting meat any time soon, but it's something that we'll likely have to start giving more serious consideration as our population grows.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109637]You're arguing against your own biology, not me. The only advantages I can see to a meat-free diet are 'I haven't caused the death of any cows or piggies or chickens'. The food's less tasty, more expensive, you need to plan every meal out or go malnourished, people give you funny looks, going out to eat is a bitch and a half....bah. It ain't worth the hassle. Enjoy a steak.[/QUOTE] The environmental impacts of the meat industry go very well beyond sparing the lives of some cattle and chicken.
[QUOTE=Passing;50109416]soylent green is the anwser, no longer do you need to produce meat with stinky carbon producing animals. You just wait for humans to expire and re-purpose them.. I like this dark future we are approaching.[/QUOTE] Humans are stinky carbon producing animals.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109471]Two servings of meat [b]per week[/b]?! Shiiiiiiit, I eat more than that every time I sit down just about. Fuck yo' guidelines I'm having New York Strip for dinner. [editline]10th April 2016[/editline] If that was true we would not have incisors, we would not have a GI tract capable of processing meat. Indeed, we would not exist, as it was our omnivorous appetites that paved the way for the big brains that make us humans in the first place. Like it or not, we are designed to eat meat. We're [i]omnivores[/i]. We need delicious steaks as much as we need the potatoes we put next to them.[/QUOTE] We don't need meat in our diets. Sure we're omnivores, but we don't have to be and it may very well be healthier not to eat meat. But I completely understand, the thought of giving up meat is quite scary. I use to eat a lot and have slowly cut back that amount, but turns out it's not that hard to do. The documentary Conspiracy gives a good overview of the dangers we have subjected ourselves to with our diets, if you were interested in researching it more.
[QUOTE=Badballer;50110180]We don't need meat in our diets. Sure we're omnivores, but we don't have to be and it may very well be healthier not to eat meat. But I completely understand, the thought of giving up meat is quite scary. I use to eat a lot and have slowly cut back that amount, but turns out it's not that hard to do. The documentary Conspiracy gives a good overview of the dangers we have subjected ourselves to with our diets, if you were interested in researching it more.[/QUOTE] TestECull thinks electric cars are scary and that the lower the MPG the better the car, he won't change any time soon. Had some vegan nachos when I visited my brother, tasted amazing. Will probably cut down on meat a bit but I love ham and chicken too much.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109637]You're arguing against your own biology, not me. The only advantages I can see to a meat-free diet are 'I haven't caused the death of any cows or piggies or chickens'. The food's less tasty, more expensive, you need to plan every meal out or go malnourished, people give you funny looks, going out to eat is a bitch and a half....bah. It ain't worth the hassle. Enjoy a steak.[/QUOTE] Water use, land use, deforestation, carbon emissions, methane emissions, probs some more. I look at these issues way more than the life of farm animals (but their conditions are still awful). And that's just the environmental impact. I definitely suggest you do a bit of research on this :)
I've stopped eating meat completely because of the health and ecological impact that it causes, it really wasn't that hard to give up. I think a lot of Western culture's obsession with meat needs to diminish greatly to reduce the negative consequences of the over consumption of meat, so this is a pretty good step forward imo.
Also, is it just me or there is this vegan trend in Europe? Went on a 5 day vegan diet with my friend in Vienna. Thing is, people will have less of a problem if vegetarian food taste good (which many cafes can't seem to master)
It's not that the west is obsessed with meat, everyone is once they get enough cash. Unless you lived in the aristocracy or wealthy mercantile classes, most people ate very little meat, relying more heavily on eggs and dairy
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109471]If that was true we would not have incisors, we would not have a GI tract capable of processing meat. Indeed, we would not exist, as it was our omnivorous appetites that paved the way for the big brains that make us humans in the first place. Like it or not, we are designed to eat meat. We're [i]omnivores[/i]. We need delicious steaks as much as we need the potatoes we put next to them.[/QUOTE] Humans are capable of eating and digesting meat. That doesn't mean they [I]need[/I] to eat meat.
What about the universal healthy plate rule where near takes 1/4 of your food? I bet the nutrition center director is a vegan and that's it. Overall stuff like this pisses me off. [editline]11th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Badballer;50110195]Water use, land use, deforestation, carbon emissions, methane emissions, probs some more. I look at these issues way more than the life of farm animals (but their conditions are still awful). And that's just the environmental impact. I definitely suggest you do a bit of research on this :)[/QUOTE] Trying to make people eat less meat is not the way to go about it. It's a problem of industry standards, industry technology.
[QUOTE=ASIC;50110263]Humans are capable of eating and digesting meat. That doesn't mean they [I]need[/I] to eat meat.[/QUOTE] Exactly, having a digestive system capable of processing meat doesn't mean people *need to* eat meat. It just gives your bodies more opportunities for getting nutrients.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50110547] Trying to make people eat less meat is not the way to go about it. It's a problem of industry standards, industry technology.[/QUOTE] Actually everyone eating less meat could absolutely help to solve these issues. The way that the industries involved in animal agriculture and factory farming function is a result of the overwhelming consumer demand. The standards and technology based on efficiency and mass production is a direct result of that massive demand.
What complete nonsense in this thread. Food has never been historically cheaper, and yet we somehow can't feed the planet? You may have a point with meat being unsustainable right now, but we're on the brink of producing lab grown meat, which will make that concern likely irrelevant. I'd advise all of our neo-Malthusians to have a look at this: [url]http://ourworldindata.org/data/food-agriculture/food-prices/[/url] [url]http://ourworldindata.org/data/food-agriculture/food-per-person/[/url] [url]http://ourworldindata.org/data/growth-and-distribution-of-prosperity/world-poverty/#absolute-number-of-people-living-in-extreme-poverty-1820-2011-max-roserref[/url] Malthusian ideas have killed tens, if not hundreds of millions of people in the past. Climate change is certainly a concern, but ranting about overpopulation is not the answer. Changing our diets is fine but will likely in the long term not be necessary at all with our changing technology.
Meat is probably the best tasting food I can imagine. Literally can't think of a single food that has no meat that would make me go "yeah I could give up meat for that" Sure we don't require meat, but damn it helps. The only thing that's preventing me from eating more of meat is the price. Gotta get that protein.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50110547] Trying to make people eat less meat is not the way to go about it. It's a problem of industry standards, industry technology.[/QUOTE] It's really the only feasible way to go about it at the moment. I'll be the first guy to grab synthesized meat when it appears on store shelves, but there's not really any way to change the current meat production to make it more environmentally friendly. A cow will always consume lots of resources and fart out a ton of CO2.
I could certainly survive without eating meat but boy would it suck. Meat is the best, I can't even enjoy a salad without at least a couple of slices of ham in there. I can't think of scenario where I would stop eating meat. Do you vegetarians not get that primal urge to gnaw on some bones?
I love these guidelines because they're pie-in-the-sky and absolutely ludicrous to distribute to the average person. A seven percent decrease in dairy consumption? Okay, let me just get my food diary and my calculator out. If I spent all my time worrying about what I ate to the extent that I meticulously planned it all, I'd be pretty fucking insane by this point. Mostly everyone just ballparks it and eats a bit of everything every day as much as possible. And regardless, a bunch of near-random people from both the neurotic food planning group and the eat whatever group will get cancer on bad luck and die at the age of 55 regardless. The question is, who regrets it more?
[QUOTE=Buck.;50110746]I could certainly survive without eating meat but boy would it suck. Meat is the best, I can't even enjoy a salad without at least a couple of slices of ham in there. I can't think of scenario where I would stop eating meat. Do you vegetarians not get that primal urge to gnaw on some bones?[/QUOTE] no because they think that by abstaining from meat they're effectively saving millions of animals from suffering and other dumb shit because the feelings of a cow are more important to them than having a healthy diet it's the same people who watch an old pixelated facebook video from 1998 showing an obscure derelict slaughterhouse killing hundreds of chicks and lambs and they get shocked and try to protest this by not eating meat except the meat they don't eat is still being produced, it's just thrown out afterwards -- if not bought by somebody else anyway. it's such an empty and useless practice and clearly exists strictly to make the person practicing vegetarianism feel better about themselves without fact-checking their choice whatsoever, because that's not really important to them. it's hollow self-discipline that achieves nothing. just eat meat already and stop pretending.
These articles are misrepresenting a recommendation for more variety in diet as a call to eat less meat. It's technically true, but they are taking it out of context.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50109226]I live in the LA sprawl of Southern California. So no, I can't hunt. I doubt hunting is even legal anywhere within 100 miles of my house.[/QUOTE] I live in LA too and i know people who go out to the desert and hunt jackrabbits all the time.
[QUOTE=locojaws;50110616]Actually everyone eating less meat could absolutely help to solve these issues. The way that the industries involved in animal agriculture and factory farming function is a result of the overwhelming consumer demand. The standards and technology based on efficiency and mass production is a direct result of that massive demand.[/QUOTE] Perhaps demand exists for a reason? It would absolutely help. But it's not possible unless you establish a vegetarian Nazi worldwide regime so that you can control what people want to eat.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109637]You're arguing against your own biology, not me. The only advantages I can see to a meat-free diet are 'I haven't caused the death of any cows or piggies or chickens'. The food's less tasty, more expensive, you need to plan every meal out or go malnourished, people give you funny looks, going out to eat is a bitch and a half....bah. It ain't worth the hassle. Enjoy a steak.[/QUOTE] I dont agree with it being less tasty and more expensive. [B]We are just so focused on having meat be a main taste maker of our meals, that it takes a change in attitude to find tasty and affordable vegetarian meals.[/B] Im pretty sure we dont need the amount of meat that is currently in most western people's diets. Its unnecessary to eat meat every day and if we can collectively skip meat more often. We can save a shitload of CO2. For me meat,2/3 times a week + fish once a week is what I personally like the most. But its easy for me as I'm subscribed to a grocery box service, which provides the ingredients and good recipe's for my meals, 5 days/week. (2x meat, 1x Fish, 2 vegetarian)
Some of the posts in here make me feel like I am vegetarian, most of my meals everyday include some potatos with other vegetables and sometimes a little bit of meat and sometimes we just eat foreign food. I barely ever eat junkfood, and meat is generally just something extra, just have a balanced meal and eat with variety.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50110915]Perhaps demand exists for a reason? It would absolutely help. But it's not possible unless you establish a vegetarian Nazi worldwide regime so that you can control what people want to eat.[/QUOTE] The whole point is changing people's views and therefore changing demand
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