• The Netherlands’ New Dietary Guidelines Take Meat Off The Menu
    86 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Badballer;50111001]The whole point is changing people's views and therefore changing demand[/QUOTE] And my point is that it's the most ineffective way to adress the problem
What's a more effective way?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;50111039]And my point is that it's the most ineffective way to adress the problem[/QUOTE] Dont agree.People are getting more and more health and environmentally conscious here in The Netherlands. Especially the younger generation. This shows in the new diet guidelines the government set. And the fact that grocery boxes containing 2 vegetarian meals a week are still rapidly growing. (100K subscribers June 2014. 600K Now.) No Diet Nazi's needed.
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;50109110]The perfect diet for humans is not the perfect diet for the environment[/QUOTE] Yes it is, we just gotta be using all food resources equally, in relation to size of the animal/plant and how fast they grow, and closely monitor our consumption of them. So that basically, we just have to [I]widen our horizons[/I] when it comes down to keeping entire animal populations as livestock, like insects!
People who legit think eating no meat is healthier just make me cringe.
I haven't had meat in 1.5 months and I feel dead inside, don't do it guys.
I usually hunt and fish to fill up the freezer, then eat off of mostly that meat for the rest of the year, but we own our own hunting property. I don't think I could make it without venison.
I can't wait for cultured meat to become the norm. [URL="http://www.memphismeats.com/"]Memphis meats[/URL] is gaining popularity and it would be wonderful for their product to be distributed worldwide.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;50111476]People who legit think eating no meat is healthier just make me cringe.[/QUOTE] Well, people who don't eat meat have a higher lifespan. Puts more work on your digestive system to digest meats. That being said, meats are very important as well. [editline]11th April 2016[/editline] There is no real benefit to avoiding meat, however. Plant farms are pretty destructive to the planet as well.
silly me I read the title as neanderthal and learned something new about that
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;50111476]People who legit think eating no meat is healthier just make me cringe.[/QUOTE] Here is a few of the many studies that highlights the positive health and environmental effects of changing towards a plant-based diet. Greenhouse gas emissions and healthcare costs: [url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/03/16/1523119113.full[/url] Plant-based diet health benefits: [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/[/url] Correlation between meat eating diet and heart disease: [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479225[/url] I don't know why it seems so hard for some people to believe that greatly reducing the amount of meat we ingest would contribute to a variety of positive impacts.
[QUOTE=Melnek;50110787]no because they think that by abstaining from meat they're effectively saving millions of animals from suffering and other dumb shit because the feelings of a cow are more important to them than having a healthy diet it's the same people who watch an old pixelated facebook video from 1998 showing an obscure derelict slaughterhouse killing hundreds of chicks and lambs and they get shocked and try to protest this by not eating meat except the meat they don't eat is still being produced, it's just thrown out afterwards -- if not bought by somebody else anyway. it's such an empty and useless practice and clearly exists strictly to make the person practicing vegetarianism feel better about themselves without fact-checking their choice whatsoever, because that's not really important to them. it's hollow self-discipline that achieves nothing. just eat meat already and stop pretending.[/QUOTE] I would imagine that them refusing to buy and eat meat is partly supposed to be a form of boycotting on animal products. Although, they may want to do more than just boycotting since that doesn't seem to be very effective by itself so far.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50109309]Pork could also be used to reuse animal wastes formed from processing, as pigs will eat just about anything.[/QUOTE] nah man that's how you get prion diseases (e.g. mad cow disease) which you really do not want
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50112446] There is no real benefit to avoiding meat, however. Plant farms are pretty destructive to the planet as well.[/QUOTE] Of course it's still destructive, but it's nowhere near as destructive compared to animal agriculture. Greenhouse gas emissions based on dietary guidelines: [url]http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10584-014-1169-1/fulltext.html[/url] World hunger and unnecessary land-usage as a result from dedicating grains to feeding livestock: [url]http://www.globalissues.org/article/240/beef#Wastefuluseofresourcesalsocontributestohungerandpoverty[/url]
anyway I have a lot of respect for people that go vegetarian/vegan because of the negative ecological impact rearing farm animals has. I would do the same, but I like meat too much, and I as I am a broke student I'm too poor to afford sustainably farmed meat/veggie substitutes.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50112446] There is no real benefit to avoiding meat, however. Plant farms are pretty destructive to the planet as well.[/QUOTE] Meat "farming" is an order of magnitude worse in that department, though. To "grow meat" you need to first use resources and land to acquire animal feed, then use more resources to raise animals, then eventually you get meat. Compared to just straight up growing food directly for human consumption you're always losing food when producing meat.
[QUOTE=locojaws;50112755]World hunger and unnecessary land-usage as a result from dedicating grains to feeding livestock: [url]http://www.globalissues.org/article/240/beef#Wastefuluseofresourcesalsocontributestohungerandpoverty[/url][/QUOTE] [IMG]http://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/kcalcapitaday-by-world-regions-mg-png.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/KBeP5qt.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XCitRp0.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2NYG5nd.png[/IMG] Food prices, world hunger and world poverty are at all time lows, why do we need to change our diets? This is especially the case when the actual, genuine problem with consumption of meat (CO2 emissions) is very likely going to be solved within the next few decades through new technology.
[QUOTE=TestECull;50109471]If that was true we would not have incisors, we would not have a GI tract capable of processing meat. Indeed, we would not exist, as it was our omnivorous appetites that paved the way for the big brains that make us humans in the first place. Like it or not, we are designed to eat meat. We're [I]omnivores[/I]. We need delicious steaks as much as we need the potatoes we put next to them.[/QUOTE] The fact that your primitive ancestors benefited from adaptations that allowed them to take advantage of energy-dense food sources does not mean that they're necessary in modern society, where non-meat sources of necessary vitamins and minerals are widely available as well as calorically dense non-meat foods. Not to mention that for most of world history meat was a rare luxury, not a staple. Your ancestors were probably a lot closer to the Dutch government's recommendation of a pound a week of meat or less than to the modern American standard of meat every day, and modern Americans and Europeans do not require anywhere near as much meat as they consume to have a nutritionally balanced diet.
i don't get people who are saying "because meat can kill you, don't eat it" i mean you guys don't realise that the number of deaths attributable to this worldwide is like in the low ten thousands, and that's mostly because people don't die violent deaths or from disease early on even if you have a diet heavy in meat, you're prolly going to live well into your 80s or 90s as long as you take moderate care of yourself (i.e don't become a fatass, don't drink yourself to death, don't binge on drugs, don't taunt people with guns, etc)
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50112919] Food prices, world hunger and world poverty are at all time lows, why do we need to change our diets? [/QUOTE] You answered your question: because less people are poor which results in everyone eating more food than ever before. World population is also increasing and the increase will go on as more people leave poverty. EDIT: Far from certain that we'll really NEED to change our diets significantly in order to survive considering technological advances are likely to make production more efficient, but it's definitely the most ecologically sound path forward. A combination of both new technology and changed diets that allows us to make the most out of the limited arable land would be the optimal outcome.
Whoa, why's everyone getting worked up over a [B]guideline[/B]? I mean, shit, eat meat if you want to eat meat, eat vegetables if you want to eat vegetables. As the other guy said, take care of your body, and you'll probably live long and happy.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50112919] Food prices, world hunger and world poverty are at all time lows, why do we need to change our diets? This is especially the case when the actual, genuine problem with consumption of meat (CO2 emissions) is very likely going to be solved within the next few decades through new technology.[/QUOTE] So just because something as terrible as world hunger is at an all time low we shouldn't attempt to reduce the problem even further by a simple dietary change while simultaneously helping the environment? It would also help to alleviate the economic cost of healthcare and major pollution caused by animal agriculture. Food prices are at an all time low because how heavily the meat industry has been subsidized, it shouldn't be that cheap. The cost comes from elsewhere, based on the standards that the industry currently has. I am absolutely looking forward to technological advancements in lab-grown meat but the testing and commercial availability is going to take many, many years. In the meantime, we should be trying to do all we can to regulate factory farming and the meat industry. Refraining from an over consumption of meat, pointing out their destructive practices, and creating less demand is a good start.
[QUOTE=a dumb bear;50112757]anyway I have a lot of respect for people that go vegetarian/vegan because of the negative ecological impact rearing farm animals has. I would do the same, but I like meat too much, and I as I am a broke student I'm too poor to afford sustainably farmed meat/veggie substitutes.[/QUOTE] You can be a vegetarian/vegan on a tight budget nowadays, so you're gonna have to drop that excuse. Liking meat is a good enough reason for not going vegetarian imo.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50109226]I live in the LA sprawl of Southern California. So no, I can't hunt. I doubt hunting is even legal anywhere within 100 miles of my house.[/QUOTE] How the hell is chicken 1$/lb there? i live in riverside and it's at the minimum $2/pound unless you buy the stuff that is mostly water. Besides that, humans should move away from meats, and look towards GMO fish that reproduce rapidly. the amount of vegetables and grain it takes to feed the meat that we eat is equilateral, if not more than it would take to feed most third world countries.
We use more grains to feed Cows, Pigs, and Chickens, than we use to feed ourselves. Those said animals, produce more shit(Fecal matter) than all of humanity combined, and that's JUST in the US. The agricultural run off from the US live stock industry has decimated the oceans for the next century. Animals need to be minimized from our diet. We can't actually go vegan though, yes Headhumpy you're right it's possible to do so in terms of health, but I counter health, with agricultural health. The natural cycle that agricultural typically took was to farm on land, and then let cattle graze on it the next year over(Or every other year, depends). That natural cycle of using animals to replenish the soil and plants to grow from it shouldn't be interrupted further. Using live stock to save our agriculture is actually our best plan. The guidelines suggested here are in line with this line of thinking(quite a few ecologists and such are leaning in this direction today) where two servings of meat a week is both entirely sustainable in terms of live stock/agriculture balance as well as more in line with our ideal meal plans though those are more finicky and individualized. [editline]11th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=meek;50113929]You can be a vegetarian/vegan on a tight budget nowadays, so you're gonna have to drop that excuse. Liking meat is a good enough reason for not going vegetarian imo.[/QUOTE] No, it isn't for most people. Not in a way that a nutrionist or a doctor would call healthy. It would require a number of supplements and pills, which, I would recommend against taking as they're literally the least certified thing in the US market. Even in Canada, you're not going to be able to afford a truly healthy vegan meal or lifestyle, on a typical budget.
I don't know what it's like in America, but in Australia you can save money by not buying meat. It's definitely the most expensive thing on my shopping list. I think people also have trouble understand how to actually cook delicious food without meat. I understand that it definitely takes a bit more time or effort, but I don't think it's all that hard once you do it a few times and learn.
[QUOTE=Melnek;50110787]no because they think that by abstaining from meat they're effectively saving millions of animals from suffering and other dumb shit because the feelings of a cow are more important to them than having a healthy diet it's the same people who watch an old pixelated facebook video from 1998 showing an obscure derelict slaughterhouse killing hundreds of chicks and lambs and they get shocked and try to protest this by not eating meat except the meat they don't eat is still being produced, it's just thrown out afterwards -- if not bought by somebody else anyway. it's such an empty and useless practice and clearly exists strictly to make the person practicing vegetarianism feel better about themselves without fact-checking their choice whatsoever, because that's not really important to them. it's hollow self-discipline that achieves nothing. just eat meat already and stop pretending.[/QUOTE] im glad to see most people in this thread are very respectful, vegetarians & non vegetarians. all having a really balanced discussion then this fucking scrawl of a poster comes along, OUT OF BLOODY NOWHERE, and just sharts his favorite thing over everyone elses dainty, yet solid points calm down you rat mongrel
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