Last time I was doing my volunteering work in charity shop a gypsy woman walked in, I did not pay any special attention to her, treated her the same way as the others, but my supervisor would watch her hands all the time, when she finally decided to get something she came to the till and paid for it then waved the receipt to my supervisor.
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;35079622]I'm trying to avoid taking an extreme side because I don't want to be dragged into this argument too much, but if you're saying the general opinion of gypsies in europe is that of a criminal underclass, how can there not be discrimination in the workplace? If I saw a guy who was part of a group that was generally despised in England I would definitely think twice about hiring him, even if he was well-groomed and polite[/QUOTE]
maybe the people rating me dumb could provide a decent counter-argument? If a well-groomed polite guy came into get a job but you later found out he was a member of a fascist organisation or something, even though he was polite you would still subconsciously or even consciously be prejudice against hiring him. If you think of all Gypsies like this, how is it any different?
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;35079622]I'm trying to avoid taking an extreme side because I don't want to be dragged into this argument too much, but if you're saying the general opinion of gypsies in europe is that of a criminal underclass, how can there not be discrimination in the workplace? If I saw a guy who was part of a group that was generally despised in England I would definitely think twice about hiring him, even if he was well-groomed and polite[/QUOTE]
I see and understand your thinking. I am repeating myself, but I am saying this again - this isn't about race at all.
Gypsy people are not judged by the race, unless it is by racist individuals. Racism done by individuals is impossible to eliminate. It's the general appearance, the way they talk and behave by which you can already tell if the person is a law abiding individual with manners. Nothing to do with race here.
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[img_thumb]http://img.aktuality.sk/stories/NAJNOVSIE_FOTKY/OSOBNOSTI/POLITIKA/DOMACA/pollak_peter_aktuality.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.omfg.sk/obrazok/1197/Cigani.jpg[/img_thumb]
IT'S NOT all about appearance. Don't call me up on this - their overall presenation is what matters. As it is with [I]any [/I]other person.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35079355]lol don't try to pull that entry level stuff. society does not equal race.
"how dare you discriminate against my right to discriminate against this group of people [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-qq.gif[/img]"[/QUOTE]
You're right, it doesn't. That's why we aren't being racist by frowning upon their [I]society.[/I] There are many "gypsy" races. Most (if not all) of those races have more normal, respectable people than gypsies. We're not talking about them. That's why we didn't specify a race. Gypsy isn't a race. It's a society.
[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;35079676]I hope you all realize that when someone says Gypsy they mean the thieving kind.
Otherwise they are seen as someone from Romania or whatever because people can't give less of a shit about someones nationality.[/QUOTE]
Wow big deal. That's the same excuse people use when using "beaner" to refer to Latino criminals, but go for "hispanic" on any other situation. Doesn't make it any more justifiable when the only word you should be using on any kind of thief is "criminal".
Fucking cigani, they really can be the scum of the Earth. They're so backward.
I'm not talking about the case in the OP, but the thing is that adults teach their children the same thing they did, so the loop never ends.
I've seen it myself when adults beat up / cut some part of the body of children then force them to beg for money. Not to mention how much they mug people.
They get everything possible from the government, yet they still manage to fuck it up.
I don't think I've ever seen "normal" Romani, but I'm okay with them if they're acting like a normal citizen.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35079719]Wow big deal. That's the same excuse people use when using "beaner" to refer to Latino criminals, but go for "hispanic" on any other situation. Doesn't make it any more justifiable when the only word you should be using on any kind of thief is "criminal".[/QUOTE]
We're referring to a specific group of criminals that tends to be less deliberately evil in nature and more indiscriminately reckless and careless. There isn't a better word than gypsy, call it a language barrier if you want, but you should be able to use the cognitive capabilities you evolved with to recognize what we're talking about.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35079703]I see and understand your thinking. I am repeating myself, but I am saying this again - this isn't about race at all.
Gypsy people are not judged by the race, unless it is by racist individuals. Racism done by individuals is impossible to eliminate. It's the general appearance, the way they talk and behave by which you can already tell if the person is a law abiding individual with manners. Nothing to do with race here.
Compare
[img_thumb]http://img.aktuality.sk/stories/NAJNOVSIE_FOTKY/OSOBNOSTI/POLITIKA/DOMACA/pollak_peter_aktuality.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.omfg.sk/obrazok/1197/Cigani.jpg[/img_thumb]
IT'S NOT all about appearance. Don't call me up on this - their overall presenation is what matters. As it is with [I]any [/I]other person.[/QUOTE]
"it's not about appearance, it's about culture!"
-something racists have been saying forever
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35078682]double lol at A; how you people are such huge fucking racists and B; how you're completely oblivious to that fact.[/QUOTE]
Don't bring "hurr racist" shit when you talk about gypsies because no matter what their situation is, they don't deserve no "racist card".
At the same time you defend them and they thank you, they sell a ton of coke and maybe even your own shit.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35079719]only word you should be using on any kind of thief is "criminal".[/QUOTE]
Well.. that's right. In a perfect world people would act this way. But you can't do that. When most of crimes are commited by individuals of a specific ethnic group, the people start making conclusions.
[editline]10th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lazor;35079755]"it's not about appearance, it's about culture!"
-something racists have been saying forever[/QUOTE]
I haven't mentioned culture in my post. Presentation - as in, if the individual takes good care of himself, knows how to properly speak, behave, has some manners, doesn't smell unpleasantly.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35079703]I see and understand your thinking. I am repeating myself, but I am saying this again - this isn't about race at all.
Gypsy people are not judged by the race, unless it is by racist individuals. Racism done by individuals is impossible to eliminate. It's the general appearance, the way they talk and behave by which you can already tell if the person is a law abiding individual with manners. Nothing to do with race here.
Compare
[img_thumb]http://img.aktuality.sk/stories/NAJNOVSIE_FOTKY/OSOBNOSTI/POLITIKA/DOMACA/pollak_peter_aktuality.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.omfg.sk/obrazok/1197/Cigani.jpg[/img_thumb]
IT'S NOT all about appearance. Don't call me up on this - their overall presenation is what matters. As it is with [I]any [/I]other person.[/QUOTE]
I can see where you're coming from and as long as that is the only manner in which workplaces discriminate, I guess I can accept that. My old workplace turned down people all the time for facial tattoos and stuff.
[QUOTE=Chrille;35078766]You don't have to hate black people to be racist, romas are just fine[/QUOTE]
You wouldn't say the same thing if you lived here...
I [b]assure[/b] you of that.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35079765]Well.. that's right. In a perfect world people would act this way. But you can't do that. When most of crimes are commited by individuals of a specific ethnic group, the people start making conclusions.[/QUOTE]
then why the fuck are you doing the same thing goddamn
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35079597]how do you know this? are you just assuming?[/QUOTE]
Are you then assuming the fact that people oppress Gypsies and also suppress them from joining employment?
If you don't live in Europe that has to cope with this problem then you have no right to come into these threads and spread bullshit around, you're so quick to label people racists and when they say they're not due to the fact that they're basing a general hypothesis on the Gypsies who live around them which has in fact been proven, and when that happens you deflect it off simply saying "lol ur racist.", you're so quick tell everyone to "stop hating" when you live on another continent away from both of them for christ sakes.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35079765]Well.. that's right. In a perfect world people would act this way. But you can't do that. When most of crimes are commited by individuals of a specific ethnic group, the people start making conclusions.[/QUOTE]
It'd be easier to talk about if they named themselves. When you say "fucking crips" you aren't saying "fucking black people" just because there are a lot of black crips. We are referring to a specific category of criminals, not criminals in general, for the sake of the conversation.
[QUOTE=acds;35078995]Oh yeah they moved into town, illegally occupying a public place (and defending it with violence, you try to go in there and you'll see), stealing, stabbing and abducting and it's obviously our fault, even though no-one had ever even interacted with them before.
No-one is forcing them to move around and live of stealing, they do so of their own accord and teach their children to do the same (some break off and lead a normal life of course, but no-one has anything against those). They're nomads, it doesn't fit well with today's society and economical system, which leads to poverty, which leads to crime, but it's their choice to remain nomadic.
Also I don't care about your economic and social situation, it will never justify kidnapping children, locking them in cages by night and using them to steal by day (not saying all Gypsies do that, but it has happened, on several occasions).[/QUOTE]
How the hell do these racist criers not see this post?
They WILLINGLY be a huge garbage pile that moves around and is a general all-around asshole, it has nothing to do with their race.
Also you guys shouldn't bother arguing with people who live in the countries which don't have (many) gypsies, they just wont understand it.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;35079743]We're referring to a specific group of criminals that tends to be less deliberately evil in nature and more indiscriminately reckless and careless. There isn't a better word than gypsy, call it a language barrier if you want, but you should be able to use the cognitive capabilities you evolved with to recognize what we're talking about.[/QUOTE]
Alright, whatever, let's say there IS a word on your language that describes both an ethnic group and a group of people from that ethnic group who carry out crimes.
Why the fuck does it have to be "gypsy children" who burned down the castle without there even being a culprit on record? Why couldn't have it been an angry white man? You don't know this, you don't know who did it on the first place, so why jump to the conclusion that "gypsy" children did it as opposed to just "children" or, even better, "criminal"?
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
[QUOTE=teh pirate;35079815]It'd be easier to talk about if they named themselves. When you say "fucking crips" you aren't saying "fucking black people" just because there are a lot of black crips. We are referring to a specific category of criminals, not criminals in general, for the sake of the conversation.[/QUOTE]
So why not deal with individual criminals rather than assume that being a Gypsy comes into it at all?
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;35079792]I can see where you're coming from and as long as that is the only manner in which workplaces discriminate, I guess I can accept that. My old workplace turned down people all the time for facial tattoos and stuff.[/QUOTE]
Well.. to say it's the only manner in which workplaces discriminate wouldn't be completly true. There still are racist people who just hate gypsies because they are, well, gypsies.
Well, if Hungarians and Slovakians can agree on one single thing, that's probably that gypsies are annoying, to say the least.
[QUOTE=Cone;35079840]So why not deal with individual criminals rather than assume that being a Gypsy comes into it at all?[/QUOTE]
That's the way our brain works. I already mentioned it. We're smart enough to connect stuff together. Not always in the best way possible, though. Instead of coming up with a new name for the group of people who act in similiar manner, we just use a word describing something they have in common.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35079838]Alright, whatever, let's say there IS a word on your language that describes both an ethnic group and a group of people from that ethnic group who carry out crimes.
Why the fuck does it have to be "gypsy children" who burned down the castle without there even being a culprit on record? Why couldn't have it been an angry white man? You don't know this, you don't know who did it on the first place, so why jump to the conclusion that "gypsy" children did it as opposed to just "children" or, even better, "criminal"?
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?[/QUOTE]
I didn't realize it was an unknown. It's a pretty extreme assumption to make. Still, nobody here is referring to the races that compose the term "gypsy" - just the people who live the criminal nomadic lifestyle.
Gypsy necessarily implies a racial minority because unlike organized crime, where the demographics of it's members are quite varied, [I]there are no white gypsies[/I], otherwise they wouldn't be called gypsies at all.
Why work your butt off for thirty years when you can mooch off the government and get free stuff?
[QUOTE=Big Bang;35079909]Gypsy necessarily implies a racial minority because unlike organized crime, where the demographics of it's members are quite varied, [I]there are no white gypsies[/I], otherwise they wouldn't be called gypsies at all.[/QUOTE]
I've always made the distinction between "romani" and "gypsy" because romani gypsy is just one category of gypsy. There are also Irish gypsies (who are, in fact, white gypsies.) and really anyone of any ethnicity can take up the nomadic lifestyle, at which point they are likely to be labeled gypsies (as the Irish gypsies were).
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35079881]That's the way our brain works. I already mentioned it. We're smart enough to connect stuff together. Not always in the best way possible, though. Instead of coming up with a new name for the group of people who act in similiar manner, we just use a word describing something they have in common.[/QUOTE]
So you're defending a broad generalization (apparently without any sources for this information that aren't just anecdotes) by saying it's human nature to retardedly assume that they're all linked together because they're Gypsies?
Also, we do have a word already for these criminals: criminals.
keep rating me dumb blackbird, it won't make you any more right.
[QUOTE=Lazor;35079755]"it's not about appearance, it's about culture!"
-something racists have been saying forever[/QUOTE]
Hitler ate sugar. Do you have a point?
[QUOTE=Chekko;35079923]Why work your butt off for thirty years when you can mooch off the government and get free stuff?[/QUOTE]
With your avatar, it almost sounds like you're trying to convince me to live that way :v:
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