• Slovakian castle ''Krasna Horka'' on fire
    425 replies, posted
I'm gonna be honest. I don't live in Slovakia or anything, I'm American, but all the Slovaks I know (quite a few) are really nice, honest people. I've always thought that if any group of people could make those Slovaks hate them so much, when they're so tolerant to everything else, there must be a serious issue. Maybe I'm mistaken, maybe I'm not. However, it's clear that a good portion of the "gypsy" lifestyle is their choice and in my opinion, they don't deserve sympathy or forgiveness for trashing as many things as they do (though perhaps a stronger attempt at reaching out to them to help them integrate should be made). I'm going to go now, it was nice to have a mostly-civil debate on Facepunch for once in a long time.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080623]you think i just sat behind a computer my whole life?[/QUOTE] Well not according to all your stories, no.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35080593]You can't compare (gypsy) people over there in Britain and here.[/QUOTE] yeah here's the problem. on one side people call anyone who steals a gypsy and they mean the ethic group. so it's kinda like saying anyone who steals is probably black. on the other side people call anyone who steals a gypsy and by this they mean the specific group in society so it's like saying anyone who steals is probably a criminal. this is why people are getting a bit confused.
[QUOTE=Kero_;35080510]Hey guys can anyone provide me a source relating to Gypsy people kidnapping children?[/QUOTE] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8226580.stm[/url] (not about kidnapping, but about using them to steal) [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCKDvVg0SIU[/url] (in Italian) They don't make a living off it, it's mostly them jumping at the opportunity if it happens (also I witnessed it once, in a supermarket a gypsy tried to steal a 9 months old, but got stopped by a security guard). They do however very often force their children to steal (to the point you could say almost always), which is also why a lot of them really are thieves and criminals, they were forced to steal since childhood by their parents, it's obvious most will turn out like that.
So, let check if I have this right: by 'gypsies', you guys basically mean 'nomads who settle down next to cities', right? Basically nomads that, rather than living as farmers, live off of government benefits and things they find? (Or 'find'?) [QUOTE=l l;35080365]Hahaha what the actual fuck? Could someone explain how not introducing new genes can cause this? I know the gist but how and why does it happen?[/QUOTE] I'm not [I]too[/I] educated in the subject, but as far as I know, it has to do with gene differences. I hope I'm using the right term for what I mean by 'genes' here. Whenever two people, err, [I]procreate[/I], the genes of each person, carried by the sperm and egg, mix together for a mix of traits between the mother and father. There's also some natural mutation involved, so it's not [I]just[/I] a mix of the mother and father, but new things too. When there's a suitably / relatively small population, the same genes get passed around a lot, so there's less checking what's "normal" with new genes. Since the same genes get passed around a lot, the mutations build up off of each other / previous generations, rather than get removed by mixing with new genes. Basically, new generations act as a mix of the parents, with some new mutations. With small populations, it's basically the same thing mixing with itself over and over again, including the mutations, so the mutations tend to only get more pronounced. With larger populations, the genes get checked with more "normal" genes, so you don't have mutations building up on top of each other as much. It's kind of similar to how animal populations that get isolated from the larger population (for instance, being transferred to a small island) evolve faster: there's less genes to even out the changes, so the changes spread and build up much faster. And I probably fucked up that explanation in 30 different ways.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080645]on one side people call anyone who steals a gypsy[/QUOTE] Ouch, where'd you get that? If this happens, it's seriously wrong.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;35080643]Well not according to all your stories, no.[/QUOTE] well you don't have to believe my stories. but i hate to stay in one place so even though i was born in Britain, i also traveled across Europe, did volunteer work in Latin America, and ended up in the US. it might sound like i "did everything" but it's not a lot and it's not everything i'd like to do either.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080564]bullshit excuse. i've lived with british gypsies in my youth because i was so amazingly interested in them. i wanted to write a whole book about them. you can dehumanize them all you want but they are exactly the same people as you or I. they cheat, steal, rape, and kill, something which i've also seen a lot of white british people do. so it's an insult to humanity when you draw a boundary like that.[/QUOTE] British gypsies =/= Eastern Europe gypsies
Russians know how to deal with Gypsies in an interesting way... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Vdx97.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;35080672]Ouch, where'd you get that? If this happens, it's seriously wrong.[/QUOTE] the point i'm trying to make is that gypsy is as huge and confusing of a description as jew is. for some people in Slovakia to say "we've given the gypsies everything but they still do horrible things" is hilarious to me considering just 60 years ago the government shot them by the masses and dropped them into a ditch. us jews haven't forgotten the holocaust, and you can bet the gypsy people haven't forgotten the porajmos. and the mistake people make is that they associate with what they call gypsy to these people.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;35079227]holy shit i cannot believe how extremely racist everyone in this thread is being without acknowledging that ahahahahaha oh my GOD[/QUOTE] yea there's a bit of a prejudice bandwagon going on here. [quote]Seriously though, are there gypsies in the US? [/quote] about a million, and they are little trouble. I think it's clear people are conflating some sort of innate group character with the the results of material conditions some live in. It's literally no different over here in the US, people say the same shit about poverty-stricken blacks with the same recycled cultural warrior crap. It only serves to confuse people and distract them from real solutions to the problem and in to a nice little nationalist voting bloc. I hate when I realize this thread is much longer than I thought.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;35079290]Don't fucking tell me I've never dealt with other races before.[/QUOTE] I'd implore you to go to any European country that has a large amount of gypsies and watch what they do and how they act.
The people crying racism in this thread are Americans who have probably never had to deal with gypsies.
Where I live a lot of families own caravans for holidays, and there's been Gypsies going about trying to steal them. We have to box ours into our driveway with our cars to stop them from towing them away.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080718] the point i'm trying to make is that gypsy is as huge and confusing of a description as jew is. for some people in Slovakia to say "we've given the gypsies everything but they still do horrible things" is hilarious to me considering just 60 years ago the government shot them by the masses and dropped them into a ditch. us jews haven't forgotten the holocaust, and you can bet the gypsy people haven't forgotten the porajmos. and the mistake people make is that they associate with what they call gypsy to these people. [/QUOTE] Holocaust was horrible and slovak people never thought otherwise. Slovakia in the times of WWII sided with german purely of the reason that if we hadn't we'd be split between Hungary and Poland. The people didn't agree with the views of germany. Heck, they didn't agree with the views of their own goverment, and such it wasn't a rare occurence when people purposely gave up and joined the Red Army, in the later stages. There were also many guerrila groups attacking nazi soldiers. Our president at the time, Jozef Tiso, was later executed for his actions in the years of his presidency. This was a very tough time for slovakia. There's a reason the goverment was said to be puppet-like and heavily controlled by Germany, through Tiso. The citizens did NOT agree with the views and ideas and Slovakia only looked like a functioning democratic state. The people's dissatisfaction with the goverment and our siding with Germany and jew/gypsy deporting resulted in Slovak National Uprising (SNP) in Autumn 1944. See [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_National_Uprising[/url]
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080564]bullshit excuse. i've lived with british gypsies in my youth because i was so amazingly interested in them. i wanted to write a whole book about them. you can dehumanize them all you want but they are exactly the same people as you or I. they cheat, steal, rape, and kill, something which i've also seen a lot of white british people do. so it's an insult to humanity when you draw a boundary like that.[/QUOTE] Well no shit, they are human. But I am going to be honest, I have never seen so much [i]bad[/i] concentrated into one culture/group. I live in a pretty small suburban area on the edge of Cork, and we don't sink that low as these people do as a whole. We pay our taxes, those with kids raise them well, and we don't mug people and steal for money, we [b]WORK[/b] for it. Travelers? They avoid taxes, their children terrorize the areas that are near to their little camps, and they thieve, hurt people, and live off welfare for money. Sure, there are some that seem sound enough, I was good friends with one when I was fifteen, but as a collective they are horrid. When a caravan settles somewhere, people predict the worst, and they end up right almost all the time. Honestly though, I don't know if there is a difference between Irish and British travelers, but whatever I experienced I loath.
I personally don't live in Europe and never been in contact with a Gypsy, but I find it kind of uncivilized the way some of you just go "they are all thieves", and it seems to me that they don't get themselves a job probably because they are hated everywhere and are unwanted, and maybe they don't have a choice other than steal things. It just feels like theres this endless circle of being hated > stealing all over again. Apart from that I'm highly against judging a whole group of people by the acts of some. But I guess me being unfamiliar with the subject affects my understanding..
[QUOTE=NorthernFall;35080814]The people crying racism in this thread are Americans who have probably never had to deal with gypsies.[/QUOTE] I can sympathize with you Europeans I've been over there and seen gypsies myself and heard an assload of stories. Thank god they aren't here in Canada. Let me try to draw a comparison here. So "gangster" culture is something a lot of black people are influenced by and are a part of. Gangster culture is fucking stupid and they are stupid for acting that way and doing the things they do. Does that mean I hate the black person because they are black? No I hate that specific person because how they act and what they do.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080718] us jews haven't forgotten the holocaust, and you can bet the gypsy people haven't forgotten the porajmos. [/QUOTE] Most people around then are dead now or ancient (It having been nearly 70 years.) There has been multiple generations of people, and the world has changed. I seriously doubt that gypsies do it because of that. There are probably much bigger and more important factors in the modern day.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;35080877]I can sympathize with you Europeans I've been over there and seen gypsies myself and heard an assload of stories. Thank god they aren't here in Canada. Let me try to draw a comparison here. So "gangster" culture is something a lot of black people are influenced by and are a part of. Gangster culture is fucking stupid and they are stupid for acting that way and doing the things they do. Does that mean I hate the black person because they are black? No I hate that specific person because how they act and what they do.[/QUOTE] The problem is that over there the term gypsy seems to refer to a specific ethnicity, which isn't how we use the term, so it's creating conflict. I said I'd go away but cortex command crashed so I refreshed the thread just to see what was happening.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080718] us jews haven't forgotten the holocaust, and you can bet the gypsy people haven't forgotten the porajmos. [/QUOTE] Persecution complex? Cause I sure as hell know you personally weren't effected by the holocaust so don't pull that card.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35080718] us jews haven't forgotten the holocaust, and you can bet the gypsy people haven't forgotten the porajmos.[/QUOTE] You weren't even born back then, how can you remember something that you never experienced? And actually jews should forget holocaust as nazis are dead and long gone.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35080937]You weren't even born back then, how can you remember something that you never experienced? And actually jews should forget holocaust as nazis are dead and long gone.[/QUOTE] antisemitism and neo-naziism still exists though, and the antisemitism is actually still quite rampant in parts of England at least
I think I'm beginning to see why Europeans hate Gypsies so much now.
It's a shame to see such a piece of history burn away.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35080937]You weren't even born back then, how can you remember something that you never experienced? And actually jews should forget holocaust as nazis are dead and long gone.[/QUOTE] Nobody should ever forget the Holocaust. Don't be ridiculous.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35080937]And actually jews should forget holocaust as nazis are dead and long gone.[/QUOTE] Forgetting is exactly what you shouldn't do with such a major event such as the Holocaust. [I]Moving on[/I], however, that I want. And besides, ever seen Russia? Fuck-tons of neo-Nazis there. Unless you want to say that neo-Nazism isn't the same as regular Nazism, I'd say the Nazis are alive and "well" in the 21st century.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;35081049]Nobody should ever forget the Holocaust. Don't be ridiculous.[/QUOTE] No but you shouldn't go all "hurr im jew, I remember holocaust".
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;35081095]No but you shouldn't go all "hurr im jew, I remember holocaust".[/QUOTE] Well you're not exactly going to forget it, are you?
[QUOTE=Cone;35081070]Forgetting is exactly what you shouldn't do with such a major event such as the Holocaust. [I]Moving on[/I], however, that I want. And besides, ever seen Russia? Fuck-tons of neo-Nazis there. Unless you want to say that neo-Nazism isn't the same as regular Nazism, I'd say the Nazis are alive and "well" in the 21st century.[/QUOTE] Neo-nazism is different to nazism though. Neo nazis in russia hate all immigrants and do not limit themselves to jews. Not to mention neo nazis is not a huge military group that exterminates jews, they're a bunch of small groups just being racist overall. [editline]10th March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;35081114]Well you're not exactly going to forget it, are you?[/QUOTE] My bad, I meant to say for them to move on.
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