Firearms sales have dropped since the election - but have risen for minorities and LGBT people
137 replies, posted
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51925614]Carrying a gun doesnt make you less victimised if the laws of the land keep changing to hate and discriminate against you more. A gun isnt gonna help you gain access to HRT or the right bathroom.
What is instead gonna happen is right wing freaks might take this as a declaration of war and we might have more violence.[/QUOTE]
What? I'll say it again, the argument was that LGBT folks, a previously easily victimized group, are hardening up to protect themselves, and how it positively affects them, not their social standing.
And we already mentioned that being armed in the face of armed violence is better than being unarmed. If someone decides they're going to shoot you, would you rather have a gun or not?
[QUOTE=Tudd;51925498]We talking about the attack done by an Radical Islamist and the false flag church?
Also I would say feeling scared and reality of statistically running into problems are two different things.
I do implore those people to still legally seek out protection though if they are truly in an area that needs it.[/QUOTE]
I mean, if you have to bring that up, we could talk about the time a supporter of the new US administration and Marine LePen shot up a mosque in my country. Or the time a xenophobe shot two Indians in a bar in the States, killing one. Or the time a Sikh man was shot because he was mistaken for a Muslim. I daresay minorities in North America have a good reason to be nervous, with so many heavily armed right-wing nutjobs running around, and a dogwhistling US administration to embolden them.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51925610]The argument was that LGBT people are arming up to protect themselves and how it positively impacts them. An easily victimized group of people is beginning to embrace and take the steps necessary to not be victimized.[/QUOTE]
I don't think having the right to guns has really helped minorities as much people make it out to be
especially given that their rights are under attack from a political party and a president that both want to expand access to firearms. their actions seem rather at odds unless you consider the possibility that guns really don't help these groups and the republicans are happy to increase access to guns /and/ shit on minorities because its not just a case of people not stopping them - but /supporting/ them
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51925629]I don't think having the right to guns has really helped minorities as much people make it out to be
especially given that their rights are under attack from a political party and a president that both want to expand access to firearms. their actions seem rather at odds unless you consider the possibility that guns really don't help these groups and the republicans are happy to increase access to guns /and/ shit on minorities because its not just a case of people not stopping them - but /supporting/ them[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, and bear with me on this, but perhaps it's because both far left and far right political views are wrong and right in varying areas? Being a minority doesn't automatically make you take a -2 to firearms skill if your opponent is white or something.
I'd rather not get into the side debate about gun rights and that, etc. I will just say that one hopes that the people buying these weapons will never be forced to use them for self defence.
But I am afraid that the fact that those numbers are rising indicates they feel they might need to.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51925634]Perhaps, and bear with me on this, but perhaps it's because both far left and far right political views are wrong and right in varying areas? Being a minority doesn't automatically make you take a -2 to firearms skill if your opponent is white or something.[/QUOTE]
No-one said anything about firearms skill though. I'm saying more guns means more violence and in an already socially divided country (which is an understatement) isn't exactly the best way to go about things.
And here we're supposed to be praising LGBT and other minorities getting more guns when they're statistically MUCH more likely to suffer from extreme depression and paranoia, which of course mixes together well with firearms.
If anything, this is less the empowerment and de-victimization of LGBT, and instead an incoming statistical increase in LGBT suicides.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51925652]No-one said anything about firearms skill though. I'm saying more guns means more violence and in an already socially divided country (which is an understatement) isn't exactly the best way to go about things.
And here we're supposed to be praising LGBT and other minorities getting more guns when they're statistically MUCH more likely to suffer from extreme depression and paranoia, which of course mixes together well with firearms.
If anything, this is less the empowerment and de-victimization of LGBT, and instead an incoming statistical increase in LGBT suicides.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue that that is incorrect and reaching. In the immediate cursory assessment, it's very easy to extrapolate that the LGBT community are perceiving a threat from the social shift that the recent political changes in this country are enabling and emboldening, and are taking measures to protect themselves as a result.
The converse to your argument establishes itself: If indeed the political shift is going to lead to more gun access and gun violence violence against minorities, would you prefer they not protect themselves and simply be slaughtered? Surely you'd argue that the worst case of being discriminated against in court is better than being dead?
[editline]7th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51925647]I'd rather not get into the side debate about gun rights and that, etc. I will just say that one hopes that the people buying these weapons will never be forced to use them for self defence.
But I am afraid that the fact that those numbers are rising indicates they feel they might need to.[/QUOTE]
That's a healthy mindset, and one I take to much of life: be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.
[QUOTE]That's a healthy mindset, and one I take to much of life: be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best. [/QUOTE]
I think my hopes, both personally and my hopes for the world, are quickly turning to fears and worries, however - particularly with He Who Shall Not Be Named's already disastrous policies (and my own personal problems and illnesses).
It's fucking garbage how the NRA insisted that obama was coming to get your guns for 8 years and apparently everyone took that hook line and sinker.
the reason they're buying em aint good but the fact they're buying em is good imo
[QUOTE=AutismoPiggo;51925842]the reason they're buying em aint good but the fact they're buying em is good imo[/QUOTE]
:what:
[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51925845]:what:[/QUOTE]
Whats bad about underdogs finding a way to protect themselves
[QUOTE=AutismoPiggo;51925847]Whats bad about underdogs finding a way to protect themselves[/QUOTE]
Oh fuck, I'm an idiot. I thought this was the thread about Russian TV paying some Sweden kids to be hooligans.
[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51925855]Oh fuck, I'm an idiot. I thought this was the thread about Russian TV paying some Sweden kids to be hooligans.[/QUOTE]
Funny thing, I did the exact same double-take for a minute
Oh lol
sorry goyims
[QUOTE=Sonador;51925634]Perhaps, and bear with me on this, but perhaps it's because both far left and far right political views are wrong and right in varying areas? Being a minority doesn't automatically make you take a -2 to firearms skill if your opponent is white or something.[/QUOTE]
the minorities are going to lose though for a very good reason
they don't have a broad degree of support amongst the population, and it's very easy for the ruling party to divide up and shit upon these groups. having guns hasn't historically helped them and it won't help them now. the entire sociocultural climate is turning against them.
the fact they're buying guys is a sign of increasing frustration and desperation as the political institutions meant to represent and protect them are becoming increasingly dysfunctional. the next stage (assuming more churches are razed and gay people are shot) is probably emigration.
As I said earlier, I'm not debating whether or not they have a positive outlook in the court system, but by picking up firearms they absolutely stand a better chance of not being a victim, regardless of the influence the administration has at large.
You cannot rationally argue being killed is better than being on trial.
Righteous stuff. I'm glad to see more folks decide to take their security into their own hands for a change, regardless of who they are.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926014]As I said earlier, I'm not debating whether or not they have a positive outlook in the court system, but by picking up firearms they absolutely stand a better chance of not being a victim, regardless of the influence the administration has at large.
You cannot rationally argue being killed is better than being on trial.[/QUOTE]
in a way it's better for the individual, but standing back and looking at the whole you get an exceptionally depressing picture
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51925823]It's fucking garbage how the NRA insisted that obama was coming to get your guns for 8 years and apparently everyone took that hook line and sinker.[/QUOTE]
Obama Himself may not of, but there is a bunch of Far Left That wants too.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51926252]Obama Himself may not of, but there is a bunch of Far Left That wants too.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad the far left isn't president then
It blows me away that people are dumb enough to think this is a positive thing.
"you mean you are so afraid for your life you bought a gun? hell yeah i love guns"
Like way to be oblivious to the point.
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;51926265]It blows me away that people are dumb enough to think this is a positive thing.
"you mean you are so afraid for your life you bought a gun? hell yeah i love guns"
Like way to be oblivious to the point.[/QUOTE]
It blows me away that people are dumb enough to think this is a entirely negative thing.
"you mean you're prepared to prepared to defend your life against murderous bigots? hell no just die"
Like way to be oblivious to the point.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926271]It blows me away that people are dumb enough to think this is a entirely negative thing.
"you mean you're prepared to prepared to defend your life against murderous bigots? hell no just die"
Like way to be oblivious to the point.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for proving my point.
and also putting words in my mouth, that's pretty cool of you.
[QUOTE=The golden;51926273]It is entirely a negative thing. How fucked is the stigma towards LGBT people that they need to carry around a fucking gun just to feel like they have a chance at not being outright murdered?[/QUOTE]
Given citizens do it and have done it for years, regardless of their race, orientation, or other factors? Irrelevant, really.
I'm not arguing that the stigma isn't bad. I'm not arguing that the situation that made them do it isn't shitty. I'm arguing that them taking steps to protect their lives is good. People who potentially could have been victims of murder are now much less likely to be them.
I get there's a huge stigma around guns. Really, I do. But arguing against my position is absolutely stating that they should not protect themselves, that is exactly what I [I]am arguing.[/I] These are dangerous times, especially for us. Arming up is a competent and good decision to make.
[editline]7th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;51926276]Thank you for proving my point.
and also putting words in my mouth, that's pretty cool of you.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I mean, when you passive-aggressively generalize one side of an argument, you should probably expect to get shit on for it.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51926252]Obama Himself may not of, but there is a bunch of Far Left That wants too.[/QUOTE]
No one in a position to do anything about it. The Democrats shot down Feinstein's new AWB to push forward a toothless compromise bill with Republicans that still failed to pass because, shockingly, the far left really isn't represented in Congress.
Daily reminder that after 8 years of Obama and a supposed two year Democratic supermajority, the only thing that happened at a federal level regarding gun rights was making them [I]more [/I]accessible.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926283]Given citizens do it and have done it for years, regardless of their race, orientation, or other factors? Irrelevant, really.
I'm not arguing that the stigma isn't bad. I'm not arguing that the situation that made them do it isn't shitty. I'm arguing that them taking steps to protect their lives is good.
[editline]7th March 2017[/editline]
Hey, I mean, when you passive-aggressively generalize one side of an argument, you should probably expect to get shit on for it.[/QUOTE]
If you are going to shit on me at least put effort into it.
I just think that people shouldn't have to go out and fear for their lives unless they have a gun.
[QUOTE=The golden;51926273]It is entirely a negative thing. How fucked is the stigma towards LGBT people that they need to carry around a fucking gun just to feel like they have a chance at not being outright murdered?
The wellbeing of people is being used here as a tool to push gun rights. It's disgusting.[/QUOTE]
I think you both may be focusing on different things
One one hand, yes the social/political situation is terrible and it's awful that they feel the need to arm themselves.
On the other hand, it is good that they are arming themselves just in case, like would you rather them not be able to protect themselves?
They can't just make their political/social situation better overnight and change the public's view, but they can get protection. It's like making the best of a shitty situation and until they get their full rights back and feel safer from a hating populace, making use of their right to bear arms is good.
[QUOTE=Zombinie;51926308]I think you both may be focusing on different things
One one hand, yes the situation is terrible and it's bad that they feel the need to arm themselves
On the other hand, it is good that they are arming themselves just in case
They can't just make their political/social situation better overnight and change the public's view, but they can get protection. It's like making the best of a shitty situation.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. They/we are being faced with a very real and dangerous climate, and it's good that we're not going into it to be taken advantage of or murdered. The situation is absolutely horrible and shouldn't be happening in the first place, but standing up to it and for our right to our lives is [I]absolutely[/I] a good thing.
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