• Firearms sales have dropped since the election - but have risen for minorities and LGBT people
    137 replies, posted
[QUOTE=download;51925243]Not surprised. If the NRA has any sense they'll use this to cultivate a left-wing gun culture.[/QUOTE] If the gun owning populace at large does not take this opportunity to foster familiarity with and acceptance of firearm ownership in the American left and cut the bullshit alarmism, scare tactics, exclusionism, and bigotry, 2021 is going to make 1994 look like a golden age of guns.
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;51926265]It blows me away that people are dumb enough to think this is a positive thing. "you mean you are so afraid for your life you bought a gun? hell yeah i love guns" Like way to be oblivious to the point.[/QUOTE] Yeah this. Not being funny, but the reaction in this thread looks so fucking skewed by the fact some posters really like guns. This is like watching gas mask enthusiasts trying to put a positive spin on a deadly chemical leak because they feel it's bringing more people to their hobby. People feel so marginalised, unrepresented, unprotected, and perhaps even straight up targeted by the institutions that are supposed to protect them, that they feel they have to go out and buy a gun just to feel safe. No matter your own views on the righteousness of carrying a firearm for self defence, these people aren't coming around to your way of thinking, they feel forced to take drastic actions, actions they might even still morally disagree with, entirely out of fear. That's not a good thing, man.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51926385][B]This is like watching gas mask enthusiasts trying to put a positive spin on a deadly chemical leak because they feel it's bringing more people to their hobby.[/B][/QUOTE] OK, this is going to be off topic but: [I]Hold the fuck up.[/I] Gas mask enthusiasts want people to wear gas masks all the time or something...? Is that why there wasn't a gas mask's thread on the site for a long time?
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51926392]OK, this is going to be off topic but: [I]Hold the fuck up.[/I] Gas mask enthusiasts want people to wear gas masks all the time or something...? Is that why there wasn't a gas mask's thread on the site for a long time?[/QUOTE] Wait, did your facepunchâ„¢ gasmask not arrive in the post when you signed up here?
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51926385]Yeah this. Not being funny, but the reaction in this thread looks so fucking skewed by the fact some posters really like guns. This is like watching gas mask enthusiasts trying to put a positive spin on a deadly chemical leak because they feel it's bringing more people to their hobby. People feel so marginalised, unrepresented, unprotected, and perhaps even straight up targeted by the institutions that are supposed to protect them, that they feel they have to go out and buy a gun just to feel safe. No matter your own views on the righteousness of carrying a firearm for self defence, these people aren't coming around to your way of thinking, they feel forced to take drastic actions, actions they might even still morally disagree with, entirely out of fear. That's not a good thing, man.[/QUOTE] You're generalizing both my posts (and the posts of the same ilk) and the people purchasing firearms. You can't seriously think I'm some shadow puppet trying to manipulate this into a gun rights argument.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51926385]People feel so marginalised, unrepresented, unprotected, and perhaps even straight up targeted by the institutions that are supposed to protect them, that they feel they have to go out and buy a gun just to feel safe. No matter your own views on the righteousness of carrying a firearm for self defence, these people aren't coming around to your way of thinking, they feel forced to take drastic actions, actions they might even still morally disagree with, entirely out of fear.[/QUOTE] The circumstances aren't desirable, but this is exactly what's happening - a lot of people who have traditionally asked "why do you need a gun? just call the police for protection" are finding their answer. People who mock the second amendment as an antiquated notion written by colonists and preserved for an imagined threat are watching honest-to-god tyrants and despots claim power and wield it against them. This isn't how any reasonable person wanted things to go but a lot of concerns that advocates of private gun ownership have voiced over the years only to have dismissed as paranoia are getting viscerally realized for some of the groups that have been doing the dismissing, and it fucking sucks that this is the river but it's not simply out of exploitation or ulterior motives that some of us want to build a bridge.
I'm looking at buying a pistol, for reasons related to all of this. I've been physically assaulted for being gay once already, and the problem with Seattle being so gay-friendly is that people will actually come here to assault gay men. My family lives on the much more conservative Eastern side of the state too, and it's really not safe over there for someone like me, so I'd prefer to carry when at home. This area has already had a good chunk of the alleged hate crime shootings, too, AND I'm moving to an area that's riskier for this stuff within a few months as well. God forbid I ever have to use it, but it's mostly about the power that comes with being armed - not the power to actually shoot. Pulling a pistol can get a bigot to step off and gtfo pretty fast.
[QUOTE=paindoc;51926541]I'm looking at buying a pistol, for reasons related to all of this. I've been physically assaulted for being gay once already, and the problem with Seattle being so gay-friendly is that people will actually come here to assault gay men. My family lives on the much more conservative Eastern side of the state too, and it's really not safe over there for someone like me, so I'd prefer to carry when at home. This area has already had a good chunk of the alleged hate crime shootings, too, AND I'm moving to an area that's riskier for this stuff within a few months as well. God forbid I ever have to use it, but it's mostly about the power that comes with being armed - not the power to actually shoot. Pulling a pistol can get a bigot to step off and gtfo pretty fast.[/QUOTE] I can't say anything other than I hope you and others will be safe.
[QUOTE=FZE;51926528]The circumstances aren't desirable, but this is exactly what's happening - a lot of people who have traditionally asked "why do you need a gun? just call the police for protection" are finding their answer. People who mock the second amendment as an antiquated notion written by colonists and preserved for an imagined threat are watching honest-to-god tyrants and despots claim power and wield it against them. This isn't how any reasonable person wanted things to go but a lot of concerns that advocates of private gun ownership have voiced over the years only to have dismissed as paranoia are getting viscerally realized for some of the groups that have been doing the dismissing, and it fucking sucks that this is the river but it's not simply out of exploitation or ulterior motives that some of us want to build a bridge.[/QUOTE] I don't think that's what a lot of us think. For me, I've been around guns all my life. Primarily for target shooting and farm usage, things like varmint hunting or badger killing. I've got a 12ga and 30-06 myself, but those aren't ideal for self defense ofc. When most of the gun violence in the US is with handguns, I can't help but want better control around the selling of handguns. I'd be willing to submit to longer waiting periods, or more thorough background checks. I'm not mocking the second amendment: I'm saying that the constitution is a living document, and the second amendment is pretty damn dated. There are ways we can make everyone safer without destroying the spirit of the second amendment. Also, how is this going to change a lot of stances on gun control when issues with lack of gun control may be causing the need for self defense firearms in the first place?
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51926554]I can't say anything other than I hope you and others will be safe.[/QUOTE] Same here. Be safe, these are strange, awful times.
[QUOTE=paindoc;51926541]I'm looking at buying a pistol, for reasons related to all of this. I've been physically assaulted for being gay once already, and the problem with Seattle being so gay-friendly is that people will actually come here to assault gay men. My family lives on the much more conservative Eastern side of the state too, and it's really not safe over there for someone like me, so I'd prefer to carry when at home. This area has already had a good chunk of the alleged hate crime shootings, too, AND I'm moving to an area that's riskier for this stuff within a few months as well. God forbid I ever have to use it, [B]but it's mostly about the power that comes with being armed - not the power to actually shoot[/B]. Pulling a pistol can get a bigot to step off and gtfo pretty fast.[/QUOTE] I would say that you're not ready for the responsibility yet then. You are NEVER supposed to pull your weapon unless you are ready to kill the person to stop the threat to your life.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51925290]Well, if people learn good gun handling/safety and a respect for the 2nd amendment, awesome.[/QUOTE] You should really know by now that taking actions based upon fear and hate rarely lead to good things.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51926385] That's not a good thing, man.[/QUOTE] For my part, that's why I went out of my way to say that the circumstances behind this shift were a shame. Call me optimistic, but the hope is that this current level of fear and distrust will pass one day (in 4 years?) but people who arm themselves now and learn their rights will continue to be gun owners in the future. You (and others) aren't wrong when you say that it's shitty that people feel like they have to go get strapped elsewise they don't feel safe in their own country and I hope real soon people don't need to feel that way.
[QUOTE=CP-26;51926570]You should really know by now that taking actions based upon fear and hate rarely lead to good things.[/QUOTE] I don't know about that, I think being able to defend yourself is very much a good thing
[QUOTE=paindoc;51926541]God forbid I ever have to use it, but it's mostly about the power that comes with being armed - not the power to actually shoot. Pulling a pistol can get a bigot to step off and gtfo pretty fast.[/QUOTE] I mean to be honest you'd probably be just as likely to escalate the conflict and get yourself killed doing that. Don't bring a gun into the equation if you're not in a situation where you know you're about to have to shoot someone, because most of the time you're just going to end up increasing the chances that one of you is going to get killed.
If you want to own a gun that's cool. But It shouldn't be "if I don't own a gun I might be attacked the moment I walk out my front door" It shouldn't be seen as a good thing where the only time people feel somewhat safe is if they own a gun.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51926567]I would say that you're not ready for the responsibility yet then. You are NEVER supposed to pull your weapon unless you are ready to kill the person to stop the threat to your life.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, and I wasn't clear or articulate with my statement. Im not pulling unless I absolutely, positively, have to use the pistol to stop an imminent threat to my life. But, I'm hopeful that this option stops the threat, because I'd rather not have to shoot someone. Also, said "looking at" buying a pistol. Part of that is considering if I should actually buy one, and you may be right. It's something I've been doing a lot of thinking about. My desire doesn't outweigh the safety of others by any means, because if it did I'm just part of the gun violence problem [editline]edited[/editline] It still sucks that this is something I'm considering though. I've never given thought to it before as I've never felt the risks to me were high enough
[QUOTE=paindoc;51926633]Fair enough, and I wasn't clear or articulate with my statement. Im not pulling unless I absolutely, positively, have to use the pistol to stop an imminent threat to my life. But, I'm hopeful that this option stops the threat, because I'd rather not have to shoot someone. Also, said "looking at" buying a pistol. Part of that is considering if I should actually buy one, and you may be right. It's something I've been doing a lot of thinking about. My desire doesn't outweigh the safety of others by any means, because if it did I'm just part of the gun violence problem [editline]edited[/editline] It still sucks that this is something I'm considering though. I've never given thought to it before as I've never felt the risks to me were high enough[/QUOTE] Thanks for the clarification. If you want to go for it, then by all means go for it. But if you have doubts that could make you a dangerous owner, then you probably shouldn't. Your greatest resource is going to be someone who works at a good gun store. They will 99% of the time be able to answer any questions, or point you to someone who can answer them. Or, you know, facepunch works too.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51925290]Well, if people learn good gun handling/safety and a respect for the 2nd amendment, awesome.[/QUOTE] Yeah it sure is awesome that a large handful of minorities feel so safe in this country that they feel they need to own guns to protect themselves from bigots. So awesome. 100% what the founding fathers wanted out of the 2nd Amendment right here.. /s
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;51926593]If you want to own a gun that's cool. But It shouldn't be "if I don't own a gun I might be attacked the moment I walk out my front door" It shouldn't be seen as a good thing where the only time people feel somewhat safe is if they own a gun.[/QUOTE] I don't plan on being in a car accident (or any situation where I'll need first aid) but I still carry a first aid kit in my car incase that reality does happen. It's no different.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51926286]No one in a position to do anything about it. The Democrats shot down Feinstein's new AWB to push forward a toothless compromise bill with Republicans that still failed to pass because, shockingly, the far left really isn't represented in Congress. Daily reminder that after 8 years of Obama and a supposed two year Democratic supermajority, the only thing that happened at a federal level regarding gun rights was making them [I]more [/I]accessible.[/QUOTE] Sorry but this isn't entirely true. Some rights were expanded while others were taken away by unconventional means. For example, Obama got rid of the requirement of a chief LEO to sign off on NFA items, but also took away a major source of M1 Garands by banning Korea from importing them back to us. The ATF also did its own thing and arbitrarily declared 5.45x39 ammo as an armor piercing pistol round, even though it was obviously designed for a rifle. Anyone owning an AK74 type of rifle now can't use imported ammo and it's availability was significantly reduced. They also tried to do the same thing with surplus 556 but thankfully that failed because the ar 15 is everywhere, and everyone basically told them to fuck off. Sure not many restrictions actually got passed, but it's not like they didn't try.
I have no strong feelings on "more guns is good" but anyone saying that in this context is just tone deaf.
[QUOTE=bdd458;51926843]I don't plan on being in a car accident (or any situation where I'll need first aid) but I still carry a first aid kit in my car incase that reality does happen. It's no different.[/QUOTE] But do you actively fear for your life when you leave the house without a first aid kit? That's the point I'm trying to get across. You shouldn't have to live in fear if you don't own a gun. LGBT people like my self shouldn't need a gun to feel safe.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;51926867]Sorry but this isn't entirely true. Some rights were expanded while others were taken away by unconventional means. For example, Obama got rid of the requirement of a chief LEO to sign off on NFA items, but also took away a major source of M1 Garands by banning Korea from importing them back to us. The ATF also did its own thing and arbitrarily declared 5.45x39 ammo as an armor piercing pistol round, even though it was obviously designed for a rifle. Anyone owning an AK74 type of rifle now can't use imported ammo and it's availability was significantly reduced. They also tried to do the same thing with surplus 556 but thankfully that failed because the ar 15 is everywhere, and everyone basically told them to fuck off. Sure not many restrictions actually got passed, but the administration during Obama's term definitely tried to restrict certain gun rights with underhanded means.[/QUOTE] I knew about the Garands story, and while it was fairly dumb, I think it's a stretch to say that it infringed on anyones rights. I had not heard about the ammunition story, and will say it's kind of worrying that the ATF has that much influence.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;51926887]But do you actively fear for your life when you leave the house without a first aid kit? That's the point I'm trying to get across. You shouldn't have to live in fear if you don't own a gun. LGBT people like my self shouldn't need a gun to feel safe.[/QUOTE] In case you haven't looked up from your computer screen in a while - the US is a whole lot of [I]should[/I] and a whole lot more [I]isn't[/I] right now, and has been as long as I've been alive.
Just because that's how it is doesn't make it a good thing for people to feel forced to own a gun to feel safe.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;51926916]Just because that's how it is doesn't make it a good thing for people to feel forced to own a gun to feel safe.[/QUOTE] So they should be shot unarmed because they [I]shouldn't[/I] have to buy a gun, basically. They [I]must remain unarmed because they shouldn't have to feel that way.[/I]
[QUOTE=Sonador;51926923]So they should be shot unarmed because they shouldn't have to buy a gun, basically.[/QUOTE] That's not what I am saying. Like at all. But thanks for twisting my words. People are saying that it's good that people are buying guns to feel safe. When it shouldn't be considered a good thing when people fear enough to where they need a gun on them at all times.
I always just wonder how often the defending party having a gun actually helps in some situations. Having something to defend yourself is good, but like the guy shot in the face while driving last week: how often will you be able to draw your own gun to defend yourself? Attacked from behind, approached with someone already drawn, etc. Doesn't seem to give you good chances
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;51926933]That's not what I am saying. Like at all. But thanks for twisting my words. People are saying that it's good that people are buying guns to feel safe. When it shouldn't be considered a good thing when people fear enough to where they need a gun on them at all times.[/QUOTE] So you completely ignored the last 4 times I said it's shitty they feel the need to procure a firearm to protect themselves but it's good they are refusing to be victims???
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