[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045404]The war memorial in Charleston is specifically mourning the lives lost on the Confederate side, showing a bias for the values held by the confederate soldiers. The values held by the confederate soldiers were bad.
[/QUOTE]
"Showing a bias for the values held by the confederate soldiers."
Ok where's the proof of that?
All I keep seeing from you is baseless claim after baseless claim.
[QUOTE=Doctor Death921;48045414]I'm just flat out going to say this is stupid. I mean, it really is. Charleston is a port city, and was likely a target because it was a commercial asset to the confederacy. That is not the fault of the people who lived there. Its an entire city of people, who happen to make a living there. Sherman's march to the sea specifically targeted Confederate commercial and industrial assets to cripple the south and bring the war to an end; its smart and brutal. Your post is just flat out ignorant.[/QUOTE]
It was targeted because they themselves attacked the Union fort in their harbor, preventing supply ships from reaching it and Lincoln wasn't going to have any of that shit.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;48045426]"Showing a bias for the values held by the confederate soldiers."
Ok where's the proof of that?[/QUOTE]
the part where the statue says the word "confederate"
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045404]The key word you used here is "both." The war memorial in Okinawa honors the lives lost on both sides of the war and isn't supporting either one. It's simply mourning the loss of life.
The war memorial in Charleston is specifically mourning the lives lost on the Confederate side, showing a bias for the values held by the confederate soldiers. [/QUOTE]
The Vietnam war memorial in DC is bad. It only honors the US military deaths, ignoring the Vietnamese deaths and showing a bias towards United States and its backing of a tyrannical regime and use of chemical weapons.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045434]the part where the statue says the word "confederate"[/QUOTE]
Confederate meaning troops who fought and died there. Not beliefs or the entity of the confederacy itself.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045434]the part where the statue says the word "confederate"[/QUOTE]
To be fair there's no Union soldiers to memorialize, because no one was killed in the first battle of Fort Sumter. (Except for two unlucky people killed in an explosion during the surrender ceremony)
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045434]the part where the statue says the word "confederate"[/QUOTE]
Confederate is actually what these people were called. Or Confederate American's. It was just their title. Like Americans is to everyone in the US nowadays.
[QUOTE=laserpanda;48045428]It was targeted because they themselves attacked the Union fort in their harbor, preventing supply ships from reaching it and Lincoln wasn't going to have any of that shit.[/QUOTE]
I would postulate that a Union fort in a Confederate harbor wasn't going to be sending sunshine and daisies to Confederate flagged vessels.
[QUOTE=laserpanda;48045428]It was targeted because they themselves attacked the Union fort in their harbor, preventing supply ships from reaching it and Lincoln wasn't going to have any of that shit.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I see what you're saying. But regardless, Calzone's post marked out the people of Charleston for being at fault, which is wrong.
-snip
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48045435]The Vietnam war memorial in DC is bad. It only honors the US military deaths, ignoring the Vietnamese deaths and showing a bias towards United States and its backing of a tyrannical regime and use of chemical weapons.[/QUOTE]
The US Soldiers that served during the Vietnam War were drafted, forced by the government to go to war and commit the atrocities that go along with any war.
The Confederate army was made up of volunteers and voluntarily defended the values of the confederacy.
Nobody's denying that the United States' actions during the Vietnam War were abhorrent, mostly because that topic has nothing to do with the one at hand.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045369]The attackers wouldn't have come in the first place if the general population weren't so dedicated to the idea of owning other people.[/QUOTE]
Four Union states were slave states, and Union generals (Sherman especially) were racist, even slavery sympathizers.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045481]The US Soldiers that served during the Vietnam War were drafted, forced by the government to go to war and commit the atrocities that go along with any war.
The Confederate army was made up of volunteers and voluntarily defended the values of the confederacy.
Nobody's denying that the United States' actions during the Vietnam War were abhorrent, mostly because that topic has nothing to do with the one at hand.[/QUOTE]
And Confederacy troops defending their homes is equal to that of Nazi's right Calzone? :)
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045481]The Confederate army was made up of volunteers and voluntarily defended the values of the confederacy. [/QUOTE]
how can you say this is 100% the case when the war was taking place in their very backyards?
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045481]The US Soldiers that served during the Vietnam War were drafted, forced by the government to go to war and commit the atrocities that go along with any war.
[B]The Confederate army was made up of volunteers and voluntarily defended the values of the confederacy.[/B]
Nobody's denying that the United States' actions during the Vietnam War were abhorrent, mostly because that topic has nothing to do with the one at hand.[/QUOTE]
Oh my lord. These people didn't mainly defend their backyard because "YEAH WHITE SUPREMACY" they defended it because this battle was happening in their own very city. And if they did jack shit their city was gonna be burned to the fucking ground.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045481]The US Soldiers that served during the Vietnam War were drafted, forced by the government to go to war and commit the atrocities that go along with any war.
The Confederate army was made up of volunteers and voluntarily defended the values of the confederacy.
Nobody's denying that the United States' actions during the Vietnam War were abhorrent, mostly because that topic has nothing to do with the one at hand.[/QUOTE]
You're right, because "Stand up and fight or stand by as people come in and destroy your town and life" is so much worse than "Stand up and fight or we will imprison you and destroy your life."
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045481]The US Soldiers that served during the Vietnam War were drafted, forced by the government to go to war and commit the atrocities that go along with any war.
The Confederate army was made up of volunteers and voluntarily defended the values of the confederacy.
Nobody's denying that the United States' actions during the Vietnam War were abhorrent, mostly because that topic has nothing to do with the one at hand.[/QUOTE]
Except the Confederate States did have a draft.
[quote]On August 8, 1861, the Confederacy called for 400,000 volunteers to serve for one or three years. By April 1862, the Confederacy passed a conscription act, which drafted men into PACS. The Confederate Congress' successive Conscription Acts broadened the ages of those subject to conscription and even swept in people who had already provided substitutes for service. Challenges to the subsequent acts came before five state supreme courts; all five upheld them[/quote]
If someone was driving a bulldozer at your house and Mitt Romney offered you a rifle that would give you a chance at stopping that bulldozer from flattening your home and family I can't imagine that you'd turn it down and let it roll over you simply because Mitt Romney made the offer.
[QUOTE=joshuadim;48045488]And Confederacy troops defending their homes is equal to that of Nazi's right Calzone? :)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=laserpanda;48045428]It was targeted because they themselves attacked the Union fort in their harbor, preventing supply ships from reaching it and Lincoln wasn't going to have any of that shit.[/QUOTE]
defending their homes from an attack that they instigated, motivated by their desire to own slaves
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045505]defending their homes from an attack that they instigated, motivated by their desire to own slaves[/QUOTE]
THIS IS INHERENTLY WRONG STOP SAYING THIS
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045505]defending their homes from an attack that they instigated, motivated by their desire to own slaves[/QUOTE]
You are saying this as if everyone in the Confederacy owned slaves. Most soldiers were fighting for the system but as well as their homes and hearths. Get that through your thick skull already.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045505]defending their homes from an attack that they instigated, motivated by their desire to own slaves[/QUOTE]
now we're just going in circles. pointless to argue with you anymore
oh hey, it's SH in a nutshell
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045505]defending their homes from an attack that they instigated, motivated by their desire to own slaves[/QUOTE]
I seriously wonder if you even read half of what was being said. Because at this point, we just come full circle to the same argument of "these people just wanted their slaves fuck 'em".
These people did not want to lose their homes. Many of the people in Charleston did not own slaves. Please tell me you have read this because you act like Charleston was Slave City USA.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48045506]THIS IS INHERENTLY WRONG STOP SAYING THIS[/QUOTE]
You and several others have admitted that the war started because the Confederacy believed their right to own slaves was being threatened. Fort Sumter and Charleston were put in danger because the confederates attacked a Union port first, and the Union retaliated. The Union port was attacked because the Confederacy didn't want supplies getting to the Union army, because the Confederacy were afraid that the Union was coming to take their slaves away.
No matter how you spin it, it always comes back to the Confederacy wanting to keep their slaves, and the memorial represents the soldiers that died protecting the Confederacy's right to own slaves.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;48045519]I seriously wonder if you even read half of what was being said. Because at this point, we just come full circle to the same argument of "these people just wanted their slaves fuck 'em".
These people did not want to lose their homes. Many of the people in Charleston did not own slaves. Please tell me you have read this because you act like Charleston was Slave City USA.[/QUOTE]
At this point I'm convinced he knows he's wrong and is too dense to admit it
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045526]You and several others have admitted that the war started because the Confederacy believed their right to own slaves was being threatened. Fort Sumter and Charleston were put in danger because the confederates attacked a Union port first, and the Union retaliated. The Union port was attacked because the Confederacy didn't want supplies getting to the Union army, because the Confederacy were afraid that the Union was coming to take their slaves away.
No matter how you spin it, it always comes back to the Confederacy wanting to keep their slaves, and the memorial represents the soldiers that died protecting the Confederacy's right to own slaves.[/QUOTE]
"The Confederacy" as a political entity administrated by slave owners and Southern businessmen is not the same thing as "Confederate soldiers" who lived in the areas they defended. They joined the Confederacy because the Confederacy offered them a way to defend their homes from rampaging Union forces.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;48045528]At this point I'm convinced he knows he's wrong and is too dense to admit it[/QUOTE]
At least he stopped spewing the "white supremacy" bullshit. So something positive came out of this.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045526]You and several others have admitted that the war started because the Confederacy believed their right to own slaves was being threatened. Fort Sumter and Charleston were put in danger because the confederates attacked a Union port first, and the Union retaliated. The Union port was attacked because the Confederacy didn't want supplies getting to the Union army, because the Confederacy were afraid that the Union was coming to take their slaves away.
No matter how you spin it, it always comes back to the Confederacy wanting to keep their slaves, and the memorial represents the soldiers that died protecting the Confederacy's right to own slaves.[/QUOTE]
It's because their entire economy DEPENDING ON SLAVERY.
I'm done arguing with you, you're making baseless claims all the time. You'll never get it through your thick fucking skull that it's a memorial about the lives lost, not about white supremacy as you claim it to be representative of.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045526]You and several others have admitted that the war started because the Confederacy believed their right to own slaves was being threatened. Fort Sumter and Charleston were put in danger because the confederates attacked a Union port first, and the Union retaliated. The Union port was attacked because the Confederacy didn't want supplies getting to the Union army, because the Confederacy were afraid that the Union was coming to take their slaves away.
No matter how you spin it, it always comes back to the Confederacy wanting to keep their slaves, and the memorial represents the soldiers that died protecting the Confederacy's right to own slaves.[/QUOTE]
Okay, you can say that the Confederate States did all this so they could keep slaves. But this has nothing to do with the men that fought in the war to defend their city. Because the actions of their government don't always reflect on what they'll do.
If you lived in Charleston while all this was going down, would you let the city burn along with your house or would you pick up a gun and try to keep your home, and yourself safe? Because the Union wasn't simply gonna run off the residents of Charleston and capture the city. They were gonna do some bad shit to both the place and its residents.
The Confederacy did what they did because their economy heavily depended on slavery and they weren't gonna go bankrupt because of it. And no, it wasn't right for slavery to be a thing, but it happened. And the people in the Confederate State's had to deal with it because the government chose the course of action they did.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045526]You and several others have admitted that the war started because the Confederacy believed their right to own slaves was being threatened. Fort Sumter and Charleston were put in danger because the confederates attacked a Union port first, and the Union retaliated. The Union port was attacked because the Confederacy didn't want supplies getting to the Union army, because the Confederacy were afraid that the Union was coming to take their slaves away.
No matter how you spin it, it always comes back to the Confederacy wanting to keep their slaves, and the memorial represents the soldiers that died protecting the Confederacy's right to own slaves.[/QUOTE]
A fort in the middle of a harbor isn't a threat to slavery, but a threat to sovereignty and trade. Had the South not fired on the fort, the war would not have started. The South did not even want a war, just to be left alone to do their thing, which included slavery. To counter that point, Lincoln tread very carefully around the issue of slavery in the border states, namely Kentucky, for if he lost her, he lost the Mississippi River. So "The Great Emancipator" was willing to let slavery slide to those loyal to the Union, and had the South not seceded, slavery would have lasted a good decade or two longer, as Brazil did not let it go until the 1880's.
[QUOTE=The Calzone;48045526]
No matter how you spin it, it always comes back to the Confederacy wanting to keep their slaves, and the memorial represents the soldiers that died protecting the Confederacy's right to own slaves.[/QUOTE]
Confederacy does not mean all Southern troops.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48045435]The Vietnam war memorial in DC is bad. It only honors the US military deaths, ignoring the Vietnamese deaths and showing a bias towards United States and its backing of a tyrannical regime and use of chemical weapons.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48045364]Its like saying that a monument to the soldiers that died stopping Hitlers armies at Stalingrad glorifies Stalin and all of his evil policies.[/QUOTE]
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