• Donald Trump Says the Hate Speech from His Supporters ‘Saddens’ Him
    132 replies, posted
[QUOTE=1239the;51370646]Two transgender friends of mine actually did threaten suicide after the election. LGBT suicide hotlines were at max capacity for 48 hours after Trump was declared the winner. You can't tell me you wouldn't suffer from bad depression if you had to spend a lot of time worried about genuine threats to your wellbeing or even your life from those around you. Many trans people rely on the ACA for healthcare and access to antidepressants. The threat of that being ripped away is basically eroding their already very tiny safety net.[/QUOTE] I will begin by warning that I have no idea what those people go through, but outright claiming to commit suicide due to elections is sad, or even pathetic on several levels.
[QUOTE=gk99;51370719]Honestly, if they weren't legitimate promises, I can't be mad at him. All he's done is bring out people's true colors and biases. He's not the one participating in the riots, he's not the one spraying offensive graffiti on walls, he's not the one setting fires and breaking windows, he just used his right to free speech to say a bunch of bullshit and enough people who believed in his ideas voted for him. Hell, if he came out the day after being sworn in and went "look, the fact that so many people voted for me after saying all these racist, bigoted things is a problem we need to solve" I'd have a newfound respect for him, despite me hating his guts this entire election. I mean I guess that's easier for me to say considering I'm a blue-eyed straight white male so not once did he actually say something to directly offend me, but it's still how I feel.[/QUOTE] Have we really gotten to the point that being two-faced is now a virtue.
I heard from a lot of people the idea that Trump put on a big show to get elected and in actuality he's more presidential than he seems, but now that he's actually been elected he seems about as stupid and sometimes-bumbling as ever.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51370763]I will begin by warning that I have no idea what those people go through, but outright claiming to commit suicide due to elections is sad, or even pathetic on several levels.[/QUOTE] You're right, you have no idea what these people go through. So why do you have a poorly informed opinion on it?
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51368722]You know I don't know what's more disgusting 1. He turns out to be moderate and deliberately abused humanity's lesser nature to get into power and has pretty much abandoned the people who got him there 2. He sticks to his guns and is a piece of shit, but a consistent piece of shit. Practically it's the latter that's worse, but the former might crush hope in the democratic process in even more people than before[/QUOTE] from what I've been reading its the former, He recently just pointed out he's not going to touch anything to do with LGBTQ rights and from what barack just said on CNN that he wants to keep the structure of what the US ultimately has right now. I fucking hate the shit he's said, but from what I've heard he used the hate and stupidity of america to become president. Even "the wall" thing he recanted on. I honestly think he tried to see if being a huge dick head would work and it worked, now that he's in power he's astonished that pure fucking hate wins over the idea of how a civil democratic nation should work
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51370763]I will begin by warning that I have no idea what those people go through, but outright claiming to commit suicide due to elections is sad, or even pathetic on several levels.[/QUOTE] "I can't identify with their struggles at all, but they're pathetic." Before Obama, many trans people had difficulties even getting health insurance. They were not even included in hate crime legislation - if you assaulted and brutally murdered a trans person because they were trans, you'd never face a hate crime charge. Trump threatening to erase the Obama presidency puts their lives at genuine risk - many, many transgendered people have gender dysphoria. Transgendered people have a 41% attempted suicide rate in the US. The national average is 1.6%. There's very real concerns.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51370796]"I can't identify with their struggles at all, but they're pathetic." Before Obama, many trans people had difficulties even getting health insurance. They were not even included in hate crime legislation - if you assaulted and brutally murdered a trans person because they were trans, you'd never face a hate crime charge. Trump threatening to erase the Obama presidency puts their lives at genuine risk - many, many transgendered people have gender dysphoria. Transgendered people have a 41% attempted suicide rate in the US. The national average is 1.6%. There's very real concerns.[/QUOTE] Those are valid concerns indeed but to commit suicide before he even acts on those is extreme, for all we know he could backpedal about this like he's doing for so many things already.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51371005]Those are valid concerns indeed but to commit suicide before he even acts on those is extreme, for all we know he could backpedal about this like he's doing for so many things already.[/QUOTE] To someone who already has a plethora of reasons to be depressed, having someone who has promised several times to take an axe to what few rights you have (and has millions of people expecting and hoping for him to do it) take the most powerful office in the world is like the ultimate sign from God that life isn't worth living.
[QUOTE=1239the;51370767]Have we really gotten to the point that being two-faced is now a virtue.[/QUOTE] If the first face was to make a point, yeah
[QUOTE=SirJon;51368240]Honestly so far this election seems a lot less of a tragedy than anticipated In fact, momentarily it even looks good[/QUOTE] It literally could be the calm before the storm.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51370763]I will begin by warning that I have no idea what those people go through, but outright claiming to commit suicide due to elections is sad, or even pathetic on several levels.[/QUOTE] Well attitudes like this really aren't helping, are they?
[QUOTE=space1;51367791]You know he admitted that shit was flung both ways. The fact that you conveniently ignore this speaks volumes about your attention span.[/QUOTE] I think this is the meanest thing obama said to trump [video=youtube;XvgnOqcCYCM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvgnOqcCYCM[/video] (at 1:23) I shouldnt even have to post all the things that donald trump said because im sure you are all acquainted with it. unless you find me anything obama said to trump thats even comparable to what trump did to obama, I suggest you lay low on the insults (to be honest, we shouldnt be insulting others here anyways, it gets in the way of discussion). "zingers" only work if you are right anyways.
[QUOTE=gk99;51371916]If the first face was to make a point, yeah[/QUOTE] It baffles me how easily Trump is manipulating people like this. He has a long history of lying, flip-flopping and being a generally deceptive person. He panders to opposing viewpoints for support. Now that he's suddenly reversed some stances, people are supporting the "pretending to be retarded" theory even though it just demonstrates how little he can be trusted. How can you be sure the first face was a lie, and not the second? Not to mention that he's been making awful decisions since his election, but since he's pandering to all sides at once he somehow maintains support.
[QUOTE=1239the;51371039]To someone who already has a plethora of reasons to be depressed, having someone who has promised several times to take an axe to what few rights you have (and has millions of people expecting and hoping for him to do it) take the most powerful office in the world is like the ultimate sign from God that life isn't worth living.[/QUOTE] Christ, get off it. When has Trump promised to take away rights from the LGTBQ community? The only thing I can really find when I try to look into this is his stance on restroom access, which I don't find to be particularly unreasonable. I can find videos of him outright saying he supports the LGTBQ community, but I guess that's just him lying, right? Committing suicide over the results of this election is ridiculous, and people who attempt it genuinely need help.
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51372537]Christ, get off it. When has Trump promised to take away rights from the LGTBQ community? The only thing I can really find when I try to look into this is his stance on restroom access, which I don't find to be particularly unreasonable. I can find videos of him outright saying he supports the LGTBQ community, but I guess that's just him lying, right? Committing suicide over the results of this election is ridiculous, and people who attempt it genuinely need help.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump-opposes-nationwide-marriage-equality[/url]
[QUOTE=Judas;51372637][url]http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump-opposes-nationwide-marriage-equality[/url][/QUOTE] wanting to bump something down to state decision isn't the same as opposing it.
[QUOTE=Judas;51372637][url]http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump-opposes-nationwide-marriage-equality[/url][/QUOTE] Could you find a more biased source? He's already said since taking office he's not touching marriage equality, so that's a moot point. The other main point that link makes is about restroom access, which I already addressed. I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that somebody who is [i]biologically[/i] male use a men's bathroom.
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51372675]Could you find a more biased source? He's already said since taking office he's not touching marriage equality, so that's a moot point. The other main point that link makes is about restroom access, which I already addressed. I don't think it's too unreasonable to suggest that somebody who is [i]biologically[/i] male use a men's bathroom.[/QUOTE] Define "biologically" male. Is your gender XY or XX? Is it dick or vagina? Would it be unreasonable to require a person with breast implants and a full sex reassignment to use the restroom of their "biological" gender? Trump also said he'd build a wall. And that he'd make Mexico pay for it. That's no longer a part of his platform, necessarily. Why do you trust his word now and ignore what he said before?
[QUOTE=Ona;51367680]It's [I]almost[/I] as if launching a campaign with a bases of hatred and civil rights abuse brings out the assholes in the world! Regardless of how Trump handles his presidency, nobody an deny at this point that he came to power while promising to systematically hurt millions of people. Whether this was a legitimate desire or just a political fast one to increase his voter count, it's pretty fucking deplorable all the same. [/QUOTE] I have to say, when you're saying stuff like "launching a campaign with a bases of hatred and civil rights abuse" and saying that he aims to "systematically hurt millions of people", you have to take a step back and realize, [I]no,[/I] he's not. He's a terrible guy but he's not going to roll out riot squads into the street to hurt minorities, nor has he ever said he would. You can look at his policies and the promises he's made, but without severely twisting his words, you cannot arrive at the conclusion he wants to "systematically hurt millions of people." Listen to that sentence and focus on "systematically." You sound insane.
[QUOTE=Pops;51372658]wanting to bump something down to state decision isn't the same as opposing it.[/QUOTE] Even if he doesn't oppose it, history has shown that we should not trust the states to handle anything related to civil rights.
the wall is still being built, not just entirely a wall. mexico is apparently going to "pay for it" through tariffs. the problem with all the shit he outlined was that he gave no specific details. now that he's potus, the details are coming through.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51372724]Define "biologically" male. Is your gender XY or XX? Is it dick or vagina? Would it be unreasonable to require a person with breast implants and a full sex reassignment to use the restroom of their "biological" gender? Trump also said he'd build a wall. And that he'd make Mexico pay for it. That's no longer a part of his platform, necessarily. Why do you trust his word now and ignore what he said before?[/QUOTE] What I mean is the gender on your birth certificate, so maybe "biologically" isn't the best word. If you aren't aware, gender on your birth certificate can be changed in all but 4 states (although most require you to have sex reassignment surgery first.) Again, really doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. He does still plan to build the wall. Something that has been proven to be very effective against illegal immigration in the past, so I don't really see the problem there.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51373227]When[/QUOTE] The Israel-Egypt and Spain-Morroco border fences are probably the best examples.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51373627]Scale [editline]15th November 2016[/editline] Those are tiny[/QUOTE] Doesn't mean it wouldn't work on a larger scale.
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51373750]Doesn't mean it wouldn't work on a larger scale.[/QUOTE] That's a very expensive maybe. Also again, what about planes?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51373627]Scale [editline]15th November 2016[/editline] Those are tiny[/QUOTE] I've heard a number of people say this but haven't explained the reasoning. In Hungary, the border wall completed in 2015 reduced the number of intercepted illegal immigrants from about 4500 per week to 15 per week. IIRC this wall was about one-sixth the length of what Trump was proposing, and it seems to have accomplished the goal. Why will a longer wall be ineffective? I'm aware that most illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstay work visas rather than border-jumpers- I'm just trying to understand what the logic is behind dismissing the wall on the basis of scale.
[QUOTE=catbarf;51374358]I've heard a number of people say this but haven't explained the reasoning. In Hungary, the border wall completed in 2015 reduced the number of intercepted illegal immigrants from about 4500 per week to 15 per week. IIRC this wall was about one-sixth the length of what Trump was proposing, and it seems to have accomplished the goal. Why will a longer wall be ineffective? I'm aware that most illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstay work visas rather than border-jumpers- I'm just trying to understand what the logic is behind dismissing the wall on the basis of scale.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't the scale of the wall mean that it's cost would be ruinous to the American economy and that because it would have to cover a huge distance, it'd be impossible to maintain in all places? Not sure why we're still talking about it since it's clear that he's not really going to fulfill that promise the way he said he would.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51374406]Wouldn't the scale of the wall mean that it's cost would be ruinous to the American economy and that because it would have to cover a huge distance, it'd be impossible to maintain in all places?[/QUOTE] If Hungary could afford a wall without any apparent economic repercussions, I don't see why a country with over 125 times the GDP wouldn't be able to afford a wall six times longer. We also have a population approximately thirty times higher, with a correspondingly larger governmental population able to staff whatever border security would be implemented. I mean, I agree, this is all academic since Trump's going back on his promises, I just never understood why people cite the larger scale to invalidate comparisons to other countries.
[QUOTE=catbarf;51374426]If Hungary could afford a wall without any apparent economic repercussions, I don't see why a country with over 125 times the GDP wouldn't be able to afford a wall six times longer. We also have a population approximately thirty times higher, with a correspondingly larger governmental population able to staff whatever border security would be implemented. I mean, I agree, this is all academic since Trump's going back on his promises, I just never understood why people cite the larger scale to invalidate comparisons to other countries.[/QUOTE] (I agree this is academic). Would there not also be issues with say, cutting across anyone's land? Aren't there rivers in the way you couldn't block? The problem with GDP though is that it seems you're already on a tight enough budget and everyone acknowledges money isn't going to important areas like education, health, etc.; why further use money for a wall that won't defeat the main cause of illegal immigration and will atagonise what should be a close ally? It seems silly considering that the States' real issue is how immigration works in the first place and that illegal immigration is a smythom of that; it's not an entirely unrelated issue. Considering that the US appears to have largely benefited heavily from immigration for a variety of countries, would reducing the restrictions not be of benefit? Though of course there are those in the Rust Belt that have already lost due to the new economy, and nobody seems willing to tackle their issues in the first place.
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51372537]Christ, get off it. When has Trump promised to take away rights from the LGTBQ community? The only thing I can really find when I try to look into this is his stance on restroom access, which I don't find to be particularly unreasonable. I can find videos of him outright saying he supports the LGTBQ community, but I guess that's just him lying, right? [/QUOTE] The fact that he chose pence as his vp should speak enough.
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