South Carolina Threatened to Secede From the Union if Confederate Flag is Removed from Capitol
93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=OvB;48066310]That's a myth. We can however, divide the state of Texas into five different states at any given moment.[/QUOTE]
North Texas, South Texas, West Texas, East Texas, and Austin.
[editline]27th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48066202]Any state can claim rights to succeed. But it is really fucking stupid to do.
Texas has special rights in terms of succession IIRC[/QUOTE]
No state can legally secede from the Union. We rectified that after the Civil War. It's in the Constitution.
Can they take the rest of the South with them lol
I'm running away! I'll do it! My hands on the door!
what a bunch of sore losers lmao
[QUOTE=gk99;48067116]Sure worked out real well for your Northern counterpart last time, huh?[/QUOTE]
We could've won if we didn't kill Jackson by accident.
[QUOTE=ccg;48067528]Can they take the rest of the South with them lol[/QUOTE]
there are some good people in the south -- stop being so deluded
lots of people from the northern parts of the US move to the south purely because of the weather/as a change of scenery/to live in the mountains
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48066202]Any state can claim rights to succeed. But it is really fucking stupid to do.
Texas has special rights in terms of succession IIRC[/QUOTE]
Nope. texas cannot. Nor can any state. However, Texas can split up into no more than five states without any form of approval at any time.
I posted this in another flag thread. Figure I'll repost it where relevant.
[QUOTE=OvB;48065095]So I ran across this on TV today, it's from 2005, but its from author John Coski, who is an expert on the confederacy and the confederate battle flag. He raises a lot of good points and if you really care about this you should watch it, no matter what your opinion is.
[url]http://www.c-span.org/video/?189466-1/john-coski-confederate-battle-flag[/url]
One of the biggest points is at 32:30 - 33:40 (32:50 - 33:40 if you're super lazy) if you're too lazy to watch it all. But the whole thing is interesting no doubt.
There's also an NPR interview with the same author, from June 23, 2015 about the current events.
[url]http://www.npr.org/2015/06/23/416736897/the-long-and-divisive-history-of-the-confederate-flag[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;48067139]I don't get why you would ever fly this flag.
Let's say the flag really doesn't represent racism/slavery (even though it does). Let's pretend it stands for states rights and southern pride.
You're still flying a flag that represents treason. The exact opposite of patriotism. Its a flag that represents a movement that [i]fought a bloody war[/i] against the United States. It's completely un-American. You are [i]rebel scum[/i].[/QUOTE]
1.The civil war was not started over slavery.
However, roughly half way through the war, the north began focussing the cause of the war more on slavery. And even, mind you, when slavery was abolished, the north wasn't exactly all about mixing black and white either.
2. Many families in the south have lived there for generations. Just like anywhere else. The flying of the flag for them is remembering their family.
Also, a fun fact, General Lee didn't even like the idea of slavery, and fought on the side of the south because of his family.
[QUOTE=farmer joe;48067806]1.[B]The civil war was not started over slavery[/B].[/QUOTE]
It's intellectually dishonest to say that the Civil War had absolutely nothing to do with slavery (instead generally I see "State's Rights" thrown around), just as it's intellectually dishonest to say that the only thing it was fought over was slavery. The US Civil War is one of the most complex, if not most complex, political event of the United State's history and to paint over such a morally gray event with such a wide brush is wrong. Entire books are written on just how and why the war started because it's a deep thing. States Rights and Slavery were but two of those issues that spurred it, but far from the only ones.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;48066204]Imagine a state threatening to secede for some big reason, like forcing the government to rebuild the corrections system or not forcing mandatory health insurace country-wide or something like that
But no, a flag[/QUOTE]
First they come for your flag, then they try and tell you which end of the egg to break open first! This calls for immediate action before our rights to free breakfast are trampled upon!
[sp]A reference to Gulliver's Travels btw, where it explains the ridiculous reasons why there's a war in Lilliput.[/sp]
[editline]27th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=bdd458;48067945]It's intellectually dishonest to say that the Civil War had absolutely nothing to do with slavery (instead generally I see "State's Rights" thrown around), just as it's intellectually dishonest to say that the only thing it was fought over was slavery. The US Civil War is one of the most complex, if not most complex, political event of the United State's history and to paint over such a morally gray event with such a wide brush is wrong. Entire books are written on just how and why the war started because it's a deep thing. States Rights and Slavery were but two of those issues that spurred it, but far from the only ones.[/QUOTE]
Even if there was precisely zero racist intention behind the flag originally, it earned that reputation through its use in the KKK and, more recently, the Pro-Segregation movement.
This does not, however, nullify any historical value of the flag itself.
Not many people gave two shits about the confederate flag until now. Selective Outrage is both temporary and meaningless and all this knee jerk reaction to it is only going to do more harm than good
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48068340]Not many people gave two shits about the confederate flag until now. Selective Outrage is both temporary and meaningless and all this knee jerk reaction to it is only going to do more harm than good[/QUOTE]
The knee jerk reaction has ALREADY done more actual harm than the good it will ever do.
I'm born and raised South Carolinian and a lot of you are dissing Carolinians on bases that you don't know what you're talking about. The Confederate flag does not represent slavery, or racism. It represents the South. As well as everyone below the Mason Dixon line. I currently live in South Carolina, been here all my life. Yes, our youth educational system isn't the best. Then again though, we don't have amazing huge colleges, cities, business or corporations. That doesn't mean all Carolinans are ignorant dumb asses. We have pride, and it's very disrespectful to us when someone tries to regulate that. IF you lived here you would be surprised on how many people have confederate flags hanging out on their front porches, or on bumper stickers. ALONG with the American flag. I'm a proud supporter of the confederate flag as it's our heritage and it's OUR right to protect it.
Also, farmer jo is right. The Civil War did NOT start over slavery. You are very misinformed if you believe so. Then again, that's what they like to teach kids these days.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;48068112]
Even if there was precisely zero racist intention behind the flag originally, it earned that reputation through its use in the KKK and, more recently, the Pro-Segregation movement.
This does not, however, nullify any historical value of the flag itself.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even talking about the flag, I'm just talking about people who either try to say Slavery had NOTHING to do with why the Civil War started and those who say it's the ONLY reason.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48068543]I'm not even talking about the flag, I'm just talking about people who either try to say Slavery had NOTHING to do with why the Civil War started and those who say it's the ONLY reason.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but it's the people who argue either way when it comes to what the flag itself stands for that my statement addresses.
[QUOTE=bdd458;48068543]I'm not even talking about the flag, I'm just talking about people who either try to say Slavery had NOTHING to do with why the Civil War started and those who say it's the ONLY reason.[/QUOTE]
The Civil War was not started because of slavery. Slavery only began to get involved when Lincoln and his advisers saw the chance to start an internal rebellion in the south. So he began telling blacks if they fought for the North then they would be free. It was a genius idea. Why would you not try and destroy the enemy from the inside? This is where most people get slavery and the civil war confused. The south only succeeded because of the economic and social differences between the south and north.
[QUOTE=Triage;48068575]The Civil War was not started because of slavery. Slavery only began to get involved when Lincoln and his advisers saw the chance to start an internal rebellion in the south. So he began telling blacks if they fought for the North then they would be free. It was a genius idea. Why would you not try and destroy the enemy from the inside? This is where most people get slavery and the civil war confused. The south only succeeded because of the economic and social differences between the south and north.[/QUOTE]
Except the election of an abolitionist was the final act that led to the south seceding. There were certainly other issues at play but it would be nothing short of delusional revisionism to describe slavery as anything short of the main issue, and also the only issue in the Bleeding Kansas conflict that served as a warm up to the war.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;48068627]Except the election of an abolitionist was the final act that led to the south seceding. There were certainly other issues at play but it would be nothing short of delusional revisionism to describe slavery as anything short of the main issue, and also the only issue in the Bleeding Kansas conflict that served as a warm up to the war.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and the presidency of Lincoln had a lot to do with it as well. And I agree, slavery had a big role during the middle and towards the end of the Civil War.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;48068627]Except the election of an abolitionist was the final act that led to the south seceding. There were certainly other issues at play but it would be nothing short of delusional revisionism to describe slavery as anything short of the main issue, and also the only issue in the Bleeding Kansas conflict that served as a warm up to the war.[/QUOTE]
Lincoln wasn't actually an Abolitionist, although he was attacked as one in the 1850's. The south didn't like him because he was a Republican, and at the time most Republicans ran on an Abolitionist platform. Lincoln did not until 1864. Though, he was against Slavery he didn't truly know what to do about it. An Abolitionist wanted the slaves to be freed immediately.
However, yes, Slavery was still one of the main issues.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;48067139]I don't get why you would ever fly this flag.
Let's say the flag really doesn't represent racism/slavery (even though it does). Let's pretend it stands for states rights and southern pride.
You're still flying a flag that represents treason. The exact opposite of patriotism. Its a flag that represents a movement that [i]fought a bloody war[/i] against the United States. It's completely un-American. You are [i]rebel scum[/i].[/QUOTE]
I fly it. I had family fight on both sides, and I choose to fly both. I understand more than most things about the Civil War. Hell, I love my country, but I understand why my ancestors fought. The war wasn't just about slavery. That flag, whether anyone likes it or not, is part of my heritage, one I support and that flag I fly is protected under the US Constitution. Anyone who rates this dumb does not know their history.
[QUOTE=Triage;48068412]I'm born and raised South Carolinian and a lot of you are dissing Carolinians on bases that you don't know what you're talking about. The Confederate flag does not represent slavery, or racism. It represents the South. As well as everyone below the Mason Dixon line. I currently live in South Carolina, been here all my life. Yes, our youth educational system isn't the best. Then again though, we don't have amazing huge colleges, cities, business or corporations. That doesn't mean all Carolinans are ignorant dumb asses. We have pride, and it's very disrespectful to us when someone tries to regulate that. IF you lived here you would be surprised on how many people have confederate flags hanging out on their front porches, or on bumper stickers. ALONG with the American flag. I'm a proud supporter of the confederate flag as it's our heritage and it's OUR right to protect it.
Also, farmer jo is right. The Civil War did NOT start over slavery. You are very misinformed if you believe so. Then again, that's what they like to teach kids these days.[/QUOTE]
as someone from north carolina leave us out of it.
also sorry to say but the confederate flag represents racism and treason.
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48066202]Any state can claim rights to succeed. But it is really fucking stupid to do.
Texas has special rights in terms of succession IIRC[/QUOTE]
No. No it doesn't. None of the states have a legal right to secede.
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
The idea that any of the states have the right is a common myth that right wing hopefuls spout as an attempt to redetermine history.
The Civil War decisively told states, you cannot leave the Union, deal with it.
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=farmer joe;48067806]1.The civil war was not started over slavery.
However, roughly half way through the war, the north began focussing the cause of the war more on slavery. And even, mind you, when slavery was abolished, the north wasn't exactly all about mixing black and white either.
2. Many families in the south have lived there for generations. Just like anywhere else. The flying of the flag for them is remembering their family.
Also, a fun fact, General Lee didn't even like the idea of slavery, and fought on the side of the south because of his family.[/QUOTE]
Okay.
No. The Civil War was completely about slavery, the Confederate Consitiution outlined the base idea was that the 'negro was below the white man' in its opening statement. The second core tenant was that slavery could not be abolished.
Every maneuver, every policy, even the SUpreme Court's worst decision it ever made [B]was in an attempt to stop the civil war.[/B]
[editline]28th June 2015[/editline]
And was specifically about Slavery.
[QUOTE=DemonElite;48069063]as someone from north carolina leave us out of it.
also sorry to say but the confederate flag represents racism and treason.[/QUOTE]
*cracks pepsi* sup fellow guy who lives in nc
[QUOTE=Sand Castle;48069243]*cracks pepsi* sup fellow guy who lives in nc[/QUOTE]
you disgust me.
you drink pepsi.
to south carolina with you.
[QUOTE=DemonElite;48069251]you disgust me.
you drink pepsi.
to south carolina with you.[/QUOTE]
pepsi was started in north carolina, though, which is why i think the whole "PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH DRINK COKE" thing is stupid
[QUOTE=Sand Castle;48069256]pepsi was started in north carolina, though, which is why i think the whole "PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH DRINK COKE" thing is stupid[/QUOTE]
pepsi is nasty.
it's a drink meant for south carolina.
[QUOTE=DemonElite;48069260]pepsi is nasty.
it's a drink meant for south carolina.[/QUOTE]
pepsi is nicer to drink with pizza
pepsi is like syrup to me i can't.
[QUOTE=DemonElite;48069277]pepsi is like syrup to me i can't.[/QUOTE]
don't drink it flat
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