• Israeli military finds flotilla killings justified. Is anyone surprised?
    271 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324411]I donnu, where does it say that these are Gaza's waters on not Israel's waters (legally speaking).[/QUOTE] International Law.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324411]I donnu, where does it say that these are Gaza's waters on not Israel's waters (legally speaking).[/QUOTE] Gaza is their own country (or something like that) so the ocean a certain distance from their shore is their waters. Even if they waited until they were in Gazan waters it would of still been illegal so the bit about enforcing a blockade is there. If you could only enforce a blockade when they were going through your own waters, what's the point?
[QUOTE=Devodiere;23324440]Gaza is their own country (or something like that) so the ocean a certain distance from their shore is their waters. Even if they waited until they were in Gazan waters it would of still been illegal so the bit about enforcing a blockade is there. If you could only enforce a blockade when they were going through your own waters, what's the point?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=starpluck;23324417]The blockade is illegal as declared by the Security Council in UNSCR 1860.[/QUOTE]
BurnEmDown just a tip you don't have to defend your country till you die. Just cause you live there doesn't mean they are right
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324385]I know everything attitude? [url]http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html[/url] It says no Hamas were in the bombed school, but you were changing and twisting the statement so far to fit your own views to even say that "its possible that they didn't notice the smoke stream since they were like helping people"[/QUOTE] What I'm saying is that a lot of things are possible and are reasonable, you weren't there, I wasn't there, so stop acting as if you know everything in details. It's obvious if you read the article that no one knows for sure what happened, for example it says that some reported that the IDF used artillery shells and other reports stated that they were mortars. The IDF probably doesn't know the full picture either, they claim that they know the names of two Hamas operatives who died, but they had no way of knowing it. If they do really know, I'm gonna guess that they had an inside informer or something like that, but I still find it hard to believe. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that you're nitpicking and constantly looking into details that you aren't even sure of, while if you look at the bigger picture it's quite clear that the IDF has done more than enough to prevent civilian deaths, regardless of some blind accusations by Gazans and biased human rights groups.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324489]What I'm saying is that a lot of things are possible and are reasonable, you weren't there, I wasn't there, so stop acting as if you know everything in details. It's obvious if you read the article that no one knows for sure what happened, for example it says that some reported that the IDF used artillery shells and other reports stated that they were mortars. The IDF probably doesn't know the full picture either, they claim that they know the names of two Hamas operatives who died, but they had no way of knowing it. If they do really know, I'm gonna guess that they had an inside informer or something like that, but I still find it hard to believe. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that you're nitpicking and constantly looking into details that you aren't even sure of, while if you look at the bigger picture it's quite clear that the IDF has done more than enough to prevent civilian deaths, regardless of some blind accusations by Gazans and [B]biased human rights groups[/B].[/QUOTE] And here it is, he's gone senile.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324489]What I'm saying is that a lot of things are possible and are reasonable, you weren't there, I wasn't there, so stop acting as if you know everything in details. It's obvious if you read the article that no one knows for sure what happened, for example it says that some reported that the IDF used artillery shells and other reports stated that they were mortars. The IDF probably doesn't know the full picture either, they claim that they know the names of two Hamas operatives who died, but they had no way of knowing it. If they do really know, I'm gonna guess that they had an inside informer or something like that, but I still find it hard to believe. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that you're nitpicking and constantly looking into details that you aren't even sure of, while if you look at the bigger picture it's quite clear that the IDF has done more than enough to prevent civilian deaths, regardless of some blind accusations by Gazans and biased human rights groups.[/QUOTE] WHEN will the day come when you realize that something is against Israel, it's NOT bias.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324489]What I'm saying is that a lot of things are possible and are reasonable, you weren't there, I wasn't there, so stop acting as if you know everything in details. It's obvious if you read the article that no one knows for sure what happened, for example it says that some reported that the IDF used artillery shells and other reports stated that they were mortars. The IDF probably doesn't know the full picture either, they claim that they know the names of two Hamas operatives who died, but they had no way of knowing it. If they do really know, I'm gonna guess that they had an inside informer or something like that, but I still find it hard to believe. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that you're nitpicking and constantly looking into details that you aren't even sure of, while if you look at the bigger picture it's quite clear that the[B] IDF has done more than enough to prevent civilian death[/B]s, regardless of some blind accusations by Gazans and biased human rights groups.[/QUOTE] Fuuuuck I wish I could find that series of pictures of the IDF gunning down a mother holding her child in the street
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23324432]International Law.[/QUOTE] Which one? You know we can keep this up a long time until you actually bring proof of your claim. [QUOTE=starpluck;23324417]The blockade is illegal as declared by the Security Council in UNSCR 1860.[/QUOTE] Oh you mean this? [url]http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9567.doc.htm[/url] Doesn't say anything about the blockade, only a ceasefire in the armed conflict. [QUOTE=Devodiere;23324440]Gaza is their own country (or something like that) so the ocean a certain distance from their shore is their waters. Even if they waited until they were in Gazan waters it would of still been illegal so the bit about enforcing a blockade is there. If you could only enforce a blockade when they were going through your own waters, what's the point?[/QUOTE] Actually Gaza doesn't have its own waters.
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23324456][/QUOTE] That resolution was to cease the fighting, stop impeding supplies from getting in and help with international support of weapons prevention. Passed a year ago too so and the situation has changed a fair bit. The blockade being illegal though it just a side point that very few people in power are really acknowledging. The problem was what they did on the ship that lead to the civilian deaths and if they were justified in using lethal force.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324417]The blockade is illegal as declared by the Security Council in UNSCR 1860.[/QUOTE] UNSCR 1860 doesn't even mention the blockade. I hate it when I come into a thread, and someone posts some UN resolution, because then I have to read through the damn thing to see if they're telling the truth. What a waste of time.
Fuck cmon BurnEmDown you seem to have the mentality like your country is perfect, does nothing wrong ever, and is justified in everything it does. You'd think with internet access your eyes would you know, open a bit.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324517] Oh you mean this? [url]http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9567.doc.htm[/url] Doesn't say anything about the blockade, only a ceasefire in the armed conflict. .[/QUOTE] [quote]Calling for the unimpeded provision and distribution throughout Gaza of humanitarian assistance within Gaza, including food, fuel and medical treatment, the resolution recognizes the role of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) in providing such assistance, and emphasizes the need to ensure “sustained and regular flow of goods and people through Gaza crossings”.[/quote] It doesn't have to say "blockade" but it falls under this.
[QUOTE=Aman V;23324508]Fuuuuck I wish I could find that series of pictures of the IDF gunning down a mother holding her child in the street[/QUOTE] You mean with the soldier being punished afterwards? [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=965657[/url]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324517] Oh you mean this? [URL]http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9567.doc.htm[/URL] Doesn't say anything about the blockade, only a ceasefire in the armed conflict. [/QUOTE] It was wrong of me to assume you would read farther then the title. [release][B]“2. Calls for the unimpeded provision and distribution throughout Gaza of humanitarian assistance, including of food, fuel and medical treatment; “3. Welcomes the initiatives aimed at creating and opening humanitarian corridors and other mechanisms for the sustained delivery of humanitarian aid; “4. Calls on Member States to support international efforts to alleviate the humanitarian and economic situation in Gaza, including through urgently needed additional contributions to UNRWA and through the Ad Hoc Liaison Committee; [/B] “5. Condemns all violence and hostilities directed against civilians and all acts of terrorism; “6. Calls upon Member States to intensify efforts to provide arrangements and guarantees in Gaza in order to sustain a durable ceasefire and calm, including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition[B] and to ensure the sustained re‑opening of the crossing points on the basis of the 2005 Agreement on Movement and Access between the Palestinian Authority and Israel; and in this regard, welcomes the Egyptian initiative, and other regional and international efforts that are under way;[/release][/B]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324517]Actually Gaza doesn't have its own waters.[/QUOTE] Most maps I see they incude it, if they are an independant state then they are pretty much guaranteed to get their own waters. Israel on the other hand has placed them in some kind of Limbo where they aren't really their own country but still have to do things a normal country does. It's a fucked up situation.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324507]WHEN will the day come when you realize that something is against Israel, it's NOT bias.[/QUOTE] WHEN will the day come when you realize that something coming from the HRW, it's NOT reliable. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch[/url]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324608]WHEN will the day come when you realize that something coming from the HRW, it's NOT reliable. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch[/URL][/QUOTE] All organizations have criticism. OK, ignore HRW if you really want to. but not: UN Human Rights Council International Red Cross Amnesty International
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324608]WHEN will the day come when you realize that something coming from the HRW, it's NOT reliable. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch[/url][/QUOTE] There is more (credible) sources to Israels bullshit then just HRW you know.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324564]It was wrong of me to assume you would read farther then the title. [release][B]“2. Calls for the unimpeded provision and distribution throughout Gaza of humanitarian assistance, including of food, fuel and medical treatment; “3. Welcomes the initiatives aimed at creating and opening humanitarian corridors and other mechanisms for the sustained delivery of humanitarian aid; “4. Calls on Member States to support international efforts to alleviate the humanitarian and economic situation in Gaza, including through urgently needed additional contributions to UNRWA and through the Ad Hoc Liaison Committee; [/B] “5. Condemns all violence and hostilities directed against civilians and all acts of terrorism; “6. Calls upon Member States to intensify efforts to provide arrangements and guarantees in Gaza in order to sustain a durable ceasefire and calm, including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition[B] and to ensure the sustained re‑opening of the crossing points on the basis of the 2005 Agreement on Movement and Access between the Palestinian Authority and Israel; and in this regard, welcomes the Egyptian initiative, and other regional and international efforts that are under way;[/release][/B][/QUOTE] None of which are prevented by the blockade, as Israel's already implemented a humanitarian aide program, and allows foreign aide programs into the Gaza strip. I'd also like to note that the resolution calls for Member states to "intensify efforts to provide arrangements and guarantees in Gaza in order to sustain a durable ceasefire and calm, including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition." Like exactly what the blockade is for.
this is like a corrupt cop investigating his own crime
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23324546]It doesn't have to say "blockade" but it falls under this.[/QUOTE] Actually during the days of fighting humanitarian aid was obviously harder to get into Gaza. The UN wasn't concerned with the blockade and its ban on some food and supplies, but about how it was a lot harder to bring the food and supplies which were allowed by the blockade because of the armed conflict. What they wanted to do with the resolution was create a ceasefire where food and supplies would enter Gaza, as it did during the last 3 years, during the blockade. So no, they didn't call an end for the blockade.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324608]WHEN will the day come when you realize that something coming from the HRW, it's NOT reliable. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Human_Rights_Watch[/url][/QUOTE] They use spin, they focus on overemotional parts of it and they have an agenda but they are fairly reliable in their accounts. Behind all the garbage they have facts that can be vital to the issue which cannot be ignored just because they are biased. If they call something abhorrent, take it with a grain of salt; if they tell an account of what happened, find the facts.
First of all for a blockade to actually be legal the two countries have to be in a state of belligerency, their has to be formal declaration of war like how the union army blockaded the south in the American civil war, but its not like Israel gives a shit, you are all are retards for even debating the legality of a blockade by Israel, its clear Israel doesn't give a fuck about whats legal or not, they always do what they please regardless of any law or rules, just like the assholes they are fighting. They don't want any peace they want a toehold on the lands they see that they "rightfully conquered", if they wanted peace they would give back the Golan to Syria and the massive buffer zone in Lebanon and stop building settlements in Palestine. Israel has done a great job of turning everyone against her, the only friendly country to Israel ,Turkey has practically thrown out their embassy and now Israel once again isolates itself from everyone else, lets see how far it gets them, if it wasn't for the US giving them weapons and rich Jewish people in the US giving them charity Israel would been lost in the historical wastebasket, they are just a relic of the cold war and their usefulness to America is rapidly dwindling considering Israel isn't sitting on massive oil wells and does a great job of pissing off every arab neighbor that does have massive oil wells, and since their is no more soviets trying to set up friendly dictators in that region their usefulness as a democratic buffer zone in the mid-east is gone. Sorry but thats just the facts.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324666]Actually during the days of fighting humanitarian aid was obviously harder to get into Gaza. The UN wasn't concerned with the blockade and its ban on some food and supplies, but about how it was a lot harder to bring the food and supplies which were allowed by the blockade because of the armed conflict. What they wanted to do with the resolution was create a ceasefire where food and supplies would enter Gaza, as it did during the last 3 years, during the blockade. So no, they didn't call an end for the blockade.[/QUOTE] Too bad most Supplies get taken away because they can be used for "weapons" No construction tools, and very few medical supplies.
Even tough I think Isreali are dicks, they did nothing wrong according to the law and code.
[QUOTE=Pegleg;23324647]None of which are prevented by the blockade, as Israel's already implemented a humanitarian aide program, and allows foreign aide programs into the Gaza strip. I'd also like to note that the resolution calls for Member states to "intensify efforts to provide arrangements and guarantees in Gaza in order to sustain a durable ceasefire and calm, including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition." Like exactly what the blockade is for.[/QUOTE] I don't think you even know what the blockade blocks.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324684]I don't think you even know what the blockade blocks.[/QUOTE] I don't think you even know what the blockade allows.
[QUOTE=Pegleg;23324695]I don't think you even know what the blockade allows.[/QUOTE] It allows food. And pretty much that's it.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324666]Actually during the days of fighting humanitarian aid was obviously harder to get into Gaza. The UN wasn't concerned with the blockade and its ban on some food and supplies, but about how it was a lot harder to bring the food and supplies which were allowed by the blockade because of the armed conflict. What they wanted to do with the resolution was create a ceasefire where food and supplies would enter Gaza, as it did during the last 3 years, during the blockade. So no, they didn't call an end for the blockade.[/QUOTE] Food and supplies have [B]never[/B] unimpededly entered Gaza for the last 3 years.
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