• Israeli military finds flotilla killings justified. Is anyone surprised?
    271 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23324709]It allows food. And pretty much that's it.[/QUOTE] That's a horrible understatement. [url]http://www.fastforgaza.net/sites/default/files/List_of_permitted_and_prohibited_items_for_Gaza__0.pdf[/url] Note that list of permitted items is now much larger with the recent easing of the blockade.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;23324668]They use spin, they focus on overemotional parts of it and they have an agenda but they are fairly reliable in their accounts. Behind all the garbage they have facts that can be vital to the issue which cannot be ignored just because they are biased. If they call something abhorrent, take it with a grain of salt; if they tell an account of what happened, find the facts.[/QUOTE] Well I have no problem with them reporting things like problems with the legal system or the government, but they have almost no military expertise, with only one former military man in their service. [editline]11:31AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Llivavin;23324680]Too bad most Supplies get taken away because they can be used for "weapons" No construction tools, and very few medical supplies.[/QUOTE] Construction tools are allowed when humanitarian aid groups are the one asking for them. Oh, but you know what happens when they DO arrive into Gaza? The Hamas raids them and uses them for their own needs (building tunnels from which they smuggle weapons and rockets).
[QUOTE=Pegleg;23324717]That's a horrible understatement. [url]http://www.fastforgaza.net/sites/default/files/List_of_permitted_and_prohibited_items_for_Gaza__0.pdf[/url] Note that list of permitted items is now much larger with the recent easing of the blockade.[/QUOTE] None of which is actually useful medically or for construction purposes.
[QUOTE=Aman V;23324669]Israel has done a great job of turning everyone against her, the only friendly country to israel turkey has practically thrown out their embassy and now israel once again isolates itself from everyone else[/quote]Egypt is still nice to them, sort of. Most of Eurpoe disaproves of some of their actions but doesn't wish for the annihilation of the country so it's hard to put them on the opposing side. Turkey was a good friend but only really wants an international investigation and an apology so that's an easy fence to mend. [quote]lets see how far it gets them, if it wasnt for america giving them weapons and rich jewish people in this country giving them charity Israel would been lost in the historical wastebasket, they are just a relic of the cold war and their usefullness to America is rapidly dwindling considering [/quote]Well maybe in the past but they are fairly self sufficient now. I dunno how they are a cold war relic as America didn't really use them much at all for cold war purposes. [quote]Israel isnt sitting on massive oil wells and does a great job of pissing off every arab neighbor that does have massive oil wells, and since their is no more soviets trying to set up friendly dictators in that region their usefullness as a democratic buffer zone in the mid-east is gone. Sorry but thats just the facts.erves practically no use for the US[/QUOTE] So Israel is the reason for all of Americas wars in the middle east? And beacuse they are no use to the US they can just be discarded and destroyed? Alrighty then.
[QUOTE=Pegleg;23324717]That's a horrible understatement. [URL]http://www.fastforgaza.net/sites/default/files/List_of_permitted_and_prohibited_items_for_Gaza__0.pdf[/URL] Note that list of permitted items is now much larger with the recent easing of the blockade.[/QUOTE] As you can see by looking at the banned items, it defies the resolution, specifically #2 it doesn't matter if they eased it or not, the Flotilla took place before it did.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324710]Food and supplies have [B]never[/B] unimpededly entered Gaza for the last 3 years.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but during the conflict, they had an even harder time getting in, the UN was criticizing that short period of time, not the whole blockade (who nobody cared about until the flotilla activists brought up).
[QUOTE=Devodiere;23324754]Egypt is still nice to them, sort of. Most of Eurpoe disaproves of some of their actions but doesn't wish for the annihilation of the country so it's hard to put them on the opposing side. Turkey was a good friend but only really wants an international investigation and an apology so that's an easy fence to mend. Well maybe in the past but they are fairly self sufficient now. I dunno how they are a cold war relic as America didn't really use them much at all for cold war purposes. [B]So Israel is the reason for all of Americas wars in the middle east? And beacuse they are no use to the US they can just be discarded and destroyed? Alrighty then.[/B][/QUOTE] Lol I said this where exactly?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324725] Construction tools are allowed when humanitarian aid groups are the one asking for them. Oh, but you know what happens when they DO arrive into Gaza? The Hamas raids them and uses them for their own needs (building tunnels from which they smuggle weapons and rockets).[/QUOTE] It shouldn't be only humanitarian aid groups that should be getting it. And i don't give two fucks if the Hamas raids and steals them, it's a punishment onto the entire country.
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23324751]None of which is actually useful medically or for construction purposes.[/QUOTE] Medicine and medical supplies are clearly listed under permitted items, and international organizations can request construction supplies, which they use to rebuild things until it gets stolen by Hamas. Such is like is Soviet Gaza.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324757]As you can see by looking at the banned items, it defies the resolution, specifically #2 it doesn't matter if they eased it or not, the Flotilla took place before it did.[/QUOTE] Yeah because we all know how important Ketchup is to the Gazans: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=960568[/url]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324765]Maybe, but during the conflict, they had an even harder time getting in, the UN was criticizing that short period of time, not the whole blockade (who nobody cared about until the flotilla activists brought up).[/QUOTE] "The UN was criticizing that short period of time" No? Why would the UN only call for the unimpeded delivery of food during the war only? Have you ever considered the fact it refers to the aftermath and post-destruction as well?
[QUOTE=Llivavin;23324774]It shouldn't be only humanitarian aid groups that should be getting it. And i don't give two fucks if the Hamas raids and steals them, it's a punishment onto the entire country.[/QUOTE] Well according to the law Israel can forbid anything it wants except for basic humanitarian aid. Hamas is the one stealing anything besides humanitarian aid that does get through, so go complain to them about it, not Israel.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324725]Well I have no problem with them reporting things like problems with the legal system or the government, but they have almost no military expertise, with only one former military man in their service.[/QUOTE] There is such thing as rules of war you know, Lawyers know it better than most soldiers. They can report on what is happening and present facts, no-one cares about that. The Legality on the other hand is where the Gonzaga report comes in as HRW does not talk about if it was legal or not, just what happened.
What the fuck, fishing supplies are banned? You seriously can't tell me that the're banned for a good reason.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324795]"The UN was criticizing that short period of time" No? Why would the UN only call for the unimpeded delivery of food during the war only? Have you ever considered the fact it refers to the aftermath and post-destruction as well?[/QUOTE] Because they specifically said that it was a ceasefire? Generally ceasefire don't last very long. For example the one that was approved by Israel and the Hamas later on only lasted for a few days.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324792]Yeah because we all know how important Ketchup is to the Gazans: [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=960568[/URL][/QUOTE] One man was speaking on how the ease of a few good didn't change shit. It still restricted his ability to make a business. But yeah, of course, that invalidates the resolution :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Devodiere;23324818]There is such thing as rules of war you know, Lawyers know it better than most soldiers. They can report on what is happening and present facts, no-one cares about that. The Legality on the other hand is where the Gonzaga report comes in as HRW does not talk about if it was legal or not, just what happened.[/QUOTE] Well that's true, but I can't imagine that brining a lawyer to a former war zone could do anything. They first need military experts to clear up the evidence from what's fact and fiction, and then ask legal experts about the laws that may or may have not been crossed.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324825]Because they specifically said that it was a ceasefire? Generally ceasefire don't last very long. For example the one that was approved by Israel and the Hamas later on only lasted for a few days.[/QUOTE] Wait, so you're saying that the resolution was only meant to last for a few days? :wtc: [editline]11:44AM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23324812]Well according to the law Israel can forbid anything it wants except for basic humanitarian aid. Hamas is the one stealing anything besides humanitarian aid that does get through, so go complain to them about it, not Israel.[/QUOTE] And they did ban basic humanitarian aid. The incident you keep referring to only happened [B]once[/B].
added more to my post but you guys post rapid fire so just reputting it. First of all for a blockade to actually be legal the two countries have to be in a state of belligerency, their has to be formal declaration of war like how the union army blockaded the south in the American civil war, but its not like Israel gives a shit, you are all are retards for even debating the legality of a blockade by Israel, its clear Israel doesn't give a fuck about whats legal or not, they always do what they please regardless of any law or rules, just like the assholes they are fighting. They don't want any peace they want a toehold on the lands they see that they "rightfully conquered", if they wanted peace they would give back the Golan to Syria and the massive buffer zone in Lebanon and stop building settlements in Palestine. Israel has done a great job of turning everyone against her, the only friendly country to Israel ,Turkey has practically thrown out their embassy and now Israel once again isolates itself from everyone else, lets see how far it gets them, if it wasn't for the US giving them weapons and rich Jewish people in the US giving them charity Israel would have been lost in the historical wastebasket, they are just a relic of the cold war and their usefulness to America is rapidly dwindling considering Israel isn't sitting on massive oil wells and does a great job of pissing off every arab neighbor that does have massive oil wells, and since their is no more soviets trying to set up friendly dictators in that region their usefulness as a democratic buffer zone in the mid-east is gone. Sorry but thats just the facts. [editline]09:11AM[/editline] BAM and I killed the thread
[QUOTE=starpluck;23324883]And they did ban basic humanitarian aid.[/quote] When did they do that? [quote]The incident you keep referring to only happened [B]once[/B].[/QUOTE] No, the Hamas stole and raided supplies that held things which aren't considered "basic humanitarian supplies" but instead considered "luxuries" such as spices, candy, and fresh meat, multiple times. The incident which is the most famous of them all is when they raided the humanitarian aid that specifically came from the flotilla. [editline]12:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Aman V;23324914]First of all for a blockade to actually be legal the two countries have to be in a state of belligerency, their has to be formal declaration of war like how the union army blockaded the south in the American civil war, but its not like Israel gives a shit, you are all are retards for even debating the legality of a blockade by Israel, its clear Israel doesn't give a fuck about whats legal or not, they always do what they please regardless of any law or rules, just like the assholes they are fighting. They don't want any peace they want a toehold on the lands they see that they "rightfully conquered", if they wanted peace they would give back the Golan to Syria and the massive buffer zone in Lebanon and stop building settlements in Palestine.[/QUOTE] The Hamas' constant launching of rockets against Israel validates it as an "armed conflict" and thus a state of belligerency. I don't know if there was a formal declaration of war, but there was a formal declaration of the blockade, also, the Hamas' own charter can be considered a declaration of war. The rest is biased and unreasonable opinions.
Because * sage * cardamom * coriander * ginger * jam * halva * vinegar * nutmeg * chocolate * fruit preserves * seeds and nuts * biscuits and sweets * potato chips * gas for soft drinks * dried fruit * fresh meats * plaster * tar * wood * cement * iron * glucose * industrial salt * plastic/glass/metal containers * industrial margarine * tarpaulin sheets * fabric (for clothing) * flavor and smell enhancers * fishing rods * fishing nets * buoys * ropes * nylon netting for greenhouses * hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries * spare parts for tractors * dairies for cowsheds * irrigation pipe systems * planters (for saplings) * heaters * musical instruments * size A4 paper (letter/legal size) * writing implements * notebooks * toys * razors * sewing machines * horses * donkeys * goats * cattle * chicks aren't basic materials right? [URL="http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf"]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Hidd...trip060510.pdf[/URL] :downs:
[QUOTE=starpluck;23325374]Because * sage * cardamom * coriander * ginger * jam * halva * vinegar * nutmeg * chocolate * fruit preserves * seeds and nuts * biscuits and sweets * potato chips * gas for soft drinks * dried fruit * fresh meats * plaster * tar * wood * cement * iron * glucose * industrial salt * plastic/glass/metal containers * industrial margarine * tarpaulin sheets * fabric (for clothing) * flavor and smell enhancers * fishing rods * fishing nets * buoys * ropes * nylon netting for greenhouses * hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries * spare parts for tractors * dairies for cowsheds * irrigation pipe systems * planters (for saplings) * heaters * musical instruments * size A4 paper (letter/legal size) * writing implements * notebooks * toys * razors * sewing machines * horses * donkeys * goats * cattle * chicks aren't basic materials right? [URL="http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf"]http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/Hidd...trip060510.pdf[/URL] :downs:[/QUOTE] Neeeeewp. Especially not when these are allowed: flour sugar sweetener rice salt cooking oil semolina yeast pasta chickpeas beans kidney beans lentils peas Burgul wheat corn lupini beans powdered milk dairy products margarine hummus paste frozen meat, fish, and vegetables vitamins and oil for animal feed empty bags for flour medicine and medical equipment diapers feminine hygiene products toilet paper baby wipes shampoo & conditioner soap & liquid soap toothpaste laundry detergent fabric softener dish soap glass cleaner floor cleaning fluid cleaning liquid for bathroom use chlorine insecticide for household use coffee tea salami meat canned meat canned fish sponges for cleaning dishes sponges for washing mopping rags cleaning rags all canned food except canned fruit za'atar spice black pepper sesame powdered chicken stock blankets matches candles brooms mops dustpans trash cans aniseed chamomile cinnamon wastewater purification powder glass - 200 trucks water coolers + heaters mineral water Tahini (sesame paste) hair brushes hair combs shoes clothes wood (for doors and window frames) aluminum soft plastic bags fruit vegetables hay fertilized eggs pesticides for agriculture soil for agriculture particles for soil dilution chemical fertilizer plastic buckets plastic crates for fruits and vegetables plastic chicken cages egg cartons cartons for transporting chicks fiberglass and plastic trays for planting various kinds of agricultural seeds eggs (for eating) greenhouse nylon various kinds of veterinary medications and products wheat barley animal feed
Burnemdown, your arguments are like [i]little[/i] flies hitting a windshield of a Lamborghini Gallardo going 100 MPH. I mean...sooner or later the windshield would just be so DIRTY that the car must come to an eventual stop, but we could just easily wash off the flies and just go on like nothing had occurred.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23325456]Neeeeewp. Especially not when these are allowed:[/QUOTE] To be fair, a lot of those were banned until 2009 and June of this year. To disoriented to get into an argument, I'll let starpluck do it for me.
[QUOTE=Billiam;23325503]To be fair, a lot of those were banned until 2009 and June of this year. To disoriented to get into an argument, I'll let starpluck do it for me.[/QUOTE] Any sources though before you leave?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23325521]Any sources though before you leave?[/QUOTE] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8654337.stm[/url] You gots to download the full list.
BurnEmDown, no. Just because they allow some basic materials while banning most of them, does not constitute "unimpededly allowing basic materials."
[QUOTE=Billiam;23325559][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8654337.stm[/url] You gots to download the full list.[/QUOTE] Some of the items there aren't on the list actually, for example "cooking fat" and "dates" (these items aren't in the banned list either). I'll see how many items were approved at each period of time and post it here in a few mins.
[QUOTE=Aman V;23324669]First of all for a blockade to actually be legal the two countries have to be in a state of belligerency, their has to be formal declaration of war like how the union army blockaded the south in the American civil war[/QUOTE] Not a single nation in the world ever recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate nation and the Union considered it to be a rebellion. The Union never 'declared war' on anyone in the conflict
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23325676]Some of the items there aren't on the list actually, for example "cooking fat" and "dates" (these items aren't in the banned list either). I'll see how many items were approved at each period of time and post it here in a few mins.[/QUOTE] I knows, I knows. Was recalling from memory.
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