• Israeli military finds flotilla killings justified. Is anyone surprised?
    271 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327190]You really don't know what you're talking about, huh? Zionism is Jewish nationalism. You can't be a Zionist and not be a nationalist, Zionist is the support of a Jewish state, that's nationalism, being a nation, and supporting it.[/QUOTE] ...you kinda just proved me right dude... PAGE KING MOTHER FUCKERS GOD DAMN YOU CAN'T HANDLE THIS AWESOME SHIT :coolfish:
[QUOTE=Hoffa1337;23327162]The difference is our claims are based on something, your posts. You on the other hand is just trying to insult people who disagree with you.[/QUOTE] I was insulting people who were sympathizing with terrorists. Note how when people blame Israel for war crimes on Gaza, I don't say they are terrorist sympathizers because they support the Hamas. But the flotilla case was different, people genuinely sympathized for the terrorists supporters on deck who attacked the IDF, claiming that the aggressor was the victim. [editline]03:27PM[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;23327220]...you kinda just proved me right dude... PAGE KING MOTHER FUCKERS GOD DAMN YOU CAN'T HANDLE THIS AWESOME SHIT :coolfish:[/QUOTE] So what's the problem with me being a Zionist?
[QUOTE=bravehat;23327118]and a local law university which exhibited bias in the very first line.[/QUOTE] Actually, that was user submitted.
[QUOTE=bravehat;23327118]Despite the fact we have slain your arguments over and over and over and over, yet you refuse to accept it. You're the worst kind of nationalist there is man, to be honest it verges on thinly veiled Zionism.[/QUOTE] This can take for ever... You say you slained his argument, he'll say he slained yours. Facts are that neither of you will change your positions, and what you're doing is just being a douche about it. He isn't a nationalist, seriously. What he's saying is the prominent stance among Israelis (including myself) and there's nothing extraordinary about it. You can't just throw the word nationalist just because he disagrees with you. What you don't get is that it usually makes Israelis angry when you guys (non-Israelis and non-Palestinians) critisize Israel because the total amount of 98% are simply clueless on what's going on here. I'm not talking only about the facts, but on the general theme here; It just pisses us off (and to be honest I already passed that phase) that someone who lives half a world away is telling us that every thing we're doing is wrong while he never lived under the shade of fear, terror and possible wars. I also don't think you have any idea what Zionism stands for, so I'll give you a hand: Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist (as a state of the Jewish people). Nothing else.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23326826]They boarded a ship heading to break a blockade that isn't considered illegal by the UN. Yup, seems legal to me. [editline]02:56PM[/editline] Nice copy-pasta which was already debunked in previous threads.[/QUOTE] is it also legal to kill unarmed passengers? [editline]08:33AM[/editline] [QUOTE=ohadje;23327240]This can take for ever... You say you slained his argument, he'll say he slained yours. Facts are that neither of you will change your positions, and what you're doing is just being a douche about it. He isn't a nationalist, seriously. What he's saying is the prominent stance among [B]Israelis (including myself)[/B] and there's nothing extraordinary about it. You can't just throw the word nationalist just because he disagrees with you. What you don't get is that it usually makes Israelis angry when you guys (non-Israelis and non-Palestinians) critisize Israel because the total amount of 98% are simply clueless on what's going on here. I'm not talking only about the facts, but on the general theme here; It just pisses us off (and to be honest I already passed that phase) that someone who lives half a world away is telling us that every thing we're doing is wrong while he never lived under the shade of fear, terror and possible wars. I also don't think you have any idea what Zionism stands for, so I'll give you a hand: Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist (as a state of the Jewish people). Nothing else.[/QUOTE] :ms:
Zionism is no doubt a racist ideology. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379"]The UN even passed a resolution confirming that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination[/URL]. But it was later revoked since Israel started bitching and wouldn't participate in peace conferences unless it was revoked. It just shows how mature Israel is about peace.
I'm sorry but Israel's been digging their own grave with their own shit fucking methods, there was no need to use lethal force on the flotilla, there was no need to fire WP into a civilian area considering the possible damage it can do. And yeah okay, I was wrong bout the Zionism jab, I'll admit that, and dude, just cause it's the prominent stance that doesn't stop it from being the nationalist stance. And we actually have slain his arguments, and he's threw shit at us to try and kill ours and it's failed. Ours actually have unbiased evidence from reliable sources, he's posted shit from the IDF. :colbert:
[QUOTE=starpluck;23327310]Zionism is no doubt a racist ideology. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379"]The UN even passed a resolution confirming that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination[/URL]. But it was later revoked since Israel started bitching and wouldn't participate in peace conferences unless it was revoked. It just shows how mature Israel is about peace.[/QUOTE] Take a look at the list of nations who were for and against these two resolutions, will just show you how much credibility do they have. [editline]03:35PM[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;23327285]is it also legal to kill unarmed passengers?[/QUOTE] If they attack you with metal rods, knives, throw you off of one deck to another, and there's no other way for you to save yourself and your fellow soldiers, then yes. [editline]03:37PM[/editline] [QUOTE=bravehat;23327324]I'm sorry but Israel's been digging their own grave with their own shit fucking methods, there was no need to use lethal force on the flotilla, there was no need to fire WP into a civilian area considering the possible damage it can do. And yeah okay, I was wrong bout the Zionism jab, I'll admit that, and dude, just cause it's the prominent stance that doesn't stop it from being the nationalist stance. And we actually have slain his arguments, and he's threw shit at us to try and kill ours and it's failed. Ours actually have unbiased evidence from reliable sources, he's posted shit from the IDF. :colbert:[/QUOTE] The things I've posted from the IDF were videos, not claims or opinions, they were concrete evidence.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327332]Take a look at the list of nations who were for and against these two resolutions, will just show you how much credibility do they have. [/quote] It's all a mixture. Lets not invoke Ad Hominen shall we? [quote] If they attack you with metal rods, knives, throw you off of one deck to another, and there's no other way for you to save yourself and your fellow soldiers, then yes.[/QUOTE] I found this in the NY times: Saying that the Israelis were defending themselves at the aid flotilla is like saying the Japanese were defending themselves at Pearl Harbor. As Edward R. Morrow put it, “There are not two sides to every story. There is only the truth.” And the truth is that Israel attacked a US-flagged ship in international waters and took prisoner American citizens, one of whom, a 19-year old kid from New York carrying a US passport, was shot to death while lying on the deck helpless. Turkey has a right to be angry. Israel attacked and killed their citizens (and ours) because of concerns the aid flotilla would interfere with Israel’s blockade of Gaza. That was the exact same reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, concern that Americans would interfere with the blockade of China and Indochina. But we did not see President Roosevelt rush up to Congress to explain that from the Japanese point of view, they had a good reason to kill our people. Roosevelt responded to an act of war with a war. In 1904, Moroccan Mulah Raisuli kidnapped American businessman Ion Perdicaris as part of the effort to free Morocco from Spanish rule. Ion Perdicaris, on his release, stated that he felt Raisuli was acting in the best interests of his people But Teddy Roosevelt didn’t run around explaining that Raisuli had a legitimate reason to do what he did. President Roosevelt dispatched 7 battleships with orders to level Morocco’s coastline if Perdicaris was not released. Our current President has ignored his primary duty to protect American territory (which means all US-flagged ships) and American citizens from attacks by foreign governments. The Turkish leadership has balls our own government can only dream of. And that is the truth of this story.
Nothing is racist about Zionism.
This is the best letter/post/statement I have ever seen written regarding the Flotilla. -automergebroken-
[QUOTE=starpluck;23327310]Zionism is no doubt a racist ideology. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379"]The UN even passed a resolution confirming that Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination[/URL]. But it was later revoked since Israel started bitching and wouldn't participate in peace conferences unless it was revoked. It just shows how mature Israel is about peace.[/QUOTE] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/UNGA_3379_Map.png[/img] This was clearly not a cold war political issue split cleanly along Cold War sphere of influence lines almost perfectly
[QUOTE=ohadje;23327382]Nothing is racist about Zionism.[/QUOTE] Rated bad reading.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327332]Take a look at the list of nations who were for and against these two resolutions, will just show you how much credibility do they have. [editline]03:35PM[/editline] [B]If they attack you with metal rods, knives, throw you off of one deck to another, and there's no other way for you to save yourself and your fellow soldiers, then yes.[/B][/QUOTE] Weapons trained police officers are trained to break bones and dislocate joints to disarm, you saying commandos can't do the same? The use of lethal force was a fucking pathetic move by the commandos. And the IDF have admitted that they doctored material from the flotilla incident.
[quote]Zionism is no doubt a racist ideology. [/quote] [QUOTE]Nothing is racist about Zionism.[/quote] Nope, I don't see any reason to rate me 'Bad Reading'. Zionism is not a racist belief. [quote]Weapons trained police officers are trained to break bones and dislocate joints to disarm, you saying commandos can't do the same?[/quote] When they are stabbed and lynched, while the amount of the attackers is probably 3 times bigger then the commandos?
[QUOTE=bravehat;23327424]Weapons trained police officers are trained to break bones and dislocate joints to disarm, you saying commandos can't do the same? The use of lethal force was a fucking pathetic move by the commandos.[/QUOTE] Have you watched the videos? It would take a God to strike non lethal debilitating blows in the battle that took place.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327332]Take a look at the list of nations who were for and against these two resolutions, will just show you how much credibility do they have. [editline]03:35PM[/editline] If they attack you with metal rods, knives, throw you off of one deck to another, and there's no other way for you to save yourself and your fellow soldiers, then yes. [editline]03:37PM[/editline] The things I've posted from the IDF were videos, not claims or opinions, they were concrete evidence.[/QUOTE] how dare those activists bring humanitarian aid to a country that's being illegally blockaded in the first place they should be killed!!
[QUOTE=Regulas021;23327439]Have you watched the videos? It would take a God to strike non lethal debilitating blows in the battle that took place.[/QUOTE] That's what happens when you get illegally boarded in international waters.
[QUOTE=bravehat;23327424]Weapons trained police officers are trained to break bones and dislocate joints to disarm, you saying commandos can't do the same? The use of lethal force was a fucking pathetic move by the commandos.[/QUOTE] Did you see the videos? One guy was downed and was still beaten by 10 other guys with metal poles and chairs. Two guns were taken by the activists and used against them as well, one guy got stabbed in the arm, I doubt he could disarm anyone after that. And you know what? Even after all that, they still didn't use their guns, they waited for authorization from their commanders. No sane person would do this, these guys did the best they could to prevent casualties, putting themselves at extreme risk in the process. [editline]03:47PM[/editline] [QUOTE=starpluck;23327469]That's what happens when you get illegally boarded in international waters.[/QUOTE] Except they legally boarded in international waters, oops.
I stopped arguing in these threads when it became apparent that 1. it's impossible to argue with nationalists 2. they honestly thought that everything blocked was justified to "stop them from getting bigger rockets". 3. they are convinced that a concrete wall stopped suicide bombers, and hamas are mindless terrorists.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23327469]That's what happens when you get illegally boarded in international waters.[/QUOTE] You attack armed soldiers? I don't agree with the Israeli boarding the flotilla whatsoever, nor do I agree with the blockade. Regardless of that, it was masterfully mishandled by the activists. I can't imagine anything more irresponsible than attacking armed soldiers on a fucking peace mission. It makes a mockery of your cause, and gets a lot of innocent people killed. For what reason? The supplies are even [i]less[/i] likely to reach the intended destination.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;23327439]Have you watched the videos? It would take a God to strike non lethal debilitating blows in the battle that took place.[/QUOTE] A commando could easily have forced them back. For fuck sake whatever happened to giving them a shotgun that fires rock salt. Ever had rock salt in a cut? That burns fucking bad, trust me.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;23327526]I stopped arguing in these threads when it became apparent that 1. it's impossible to argue with nationalists 2. they honestly thought that everything blocked was justified to "stop them from getting bigger rockets". 3. they are convinced that a concrete wall stopped suicide bombers, and hamas are mindless terrorists.[/QUOTE] I have yet to retire.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327508]Did you see the videos? One guy was downed and was still beaten by 10 other guys with metal poles and chairs. Two guns were taken by the activists and used against them as well, one guy got stabbed in the arm, I doubt he could disarm anyone after that. And you know what? Even after all that, they still didn't use their guns, they waited for authorization from their commanders. No sane person would do this, these guys did the best they could to prevent casualties, putting themselves at extreme risk in the process. [/QUOTE] You can't legally board a ship in international waters without the boardee captains agreement. Except they legally boarded in international waters, oops.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327508]Did you see the videos? One guy was downed and was still beaten by 10 other guys with metal poles and chairs. Two guns were taken by the activists and used against them as well, one guy got stabbed in the arm, I doubt he could disarm anyone after that. And you know what? Even after all that, they still didn't use their guns, they waited for authorization from their commanders. No sane person would do this, these guys did the best they could to prevent casualties, putting themselves at extreme risk in the process. [/quote] Actually they used guns before boarding, and do you know what the activists did to the injured soldiers? Treated them. [quote] Except they legally boarded in international waters, oops.[/QUOTE] Example of 'forgetting' what we told you. An example of nationalism, I fail to understand how, after all these links, UN High Commissioner, a UNSCR, Ban Ki Moon, International Red Cross, how do you still ignore all that and say you're right?
[QUOTE=bravehat;23327553]A commando could easily have forced them back. For fuck sake whatever happened to giving them a shotgun that fires rock salt. Ever had rock salt in a cut? That burns fucking bad, trust me.[/QUOTE] I've had road salt in a cut before, and that was a miserable experience. I'd imagine rock salt is worse. Regardless, you really need to watch one of the videos to understand the situation. Before they opened fire, one of the activists managed to steal one of the commandos pistols and shot. They were entirely surrounded and definitely being attacked, once again, [i]before[/i] they did anything but land. I suppose this isn't necessarily the truth, because all we know is from edited videos released by the IDF and shaky first hand reports (which, especially in a case like this, are almost worthless from either party). I don't see how any of these commandos could have done much.
[QUOTE=bravehat;23327583]You can't legally board a ship in international waters without the boardee captains agreement. Except they legally boarded in international waters, oops.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf[/url] "5.2.2 Seizure and condemnation Cargo constituting contraband and a ship carrying such cargo may be seized by a belligerent, brought before a prize court and condemned. Confiscation without a prize court decision is prohibited."
[QUOTE=Regulas021;23327612]I've had road salt in a cut before, and that was a miserable experience. I'd imagine rock salt is worse. Regardless, you really need to watch one of the videos to understand the situation. Before they opened fire, one of the activists managed to steal one of the commandos pistols and shot. They were entirely surrounded and definitely being attacked, once again, [i]before[/i] they did anything but land. I suppose this isn't necessarily the truth, because all we know is from edited videos released by the IDF and shaky first hand reports (which, especially in a case like this, are almost worthless from either party). I don't see how any of these commandos could have done much.[/QUOTE] I've saw one of the videos and I saw some dude steal a gun and throw it off the side. And there's fucking quotes and interviews from folk on the boats like an ex German prime minister three members of Al Jazeera and a Dutch parliamentary member.
[QUOTE=starpluck;23327597]Actually they used guns before boarding, and do you know what the activists did to the injured soldiers? Treated them.[/quote] Proof please. [quote]Example of 'forgetting' what we told you. An example of nationalism, I fail to understand how, after all these links, UN High Commissioner, a UNSCR, Ban Ki Moon, International Red Cross, how do you still ignore all that and say you're right?[/QUOTE] You're forgetting that it's been proven already that it was legal. The blockade is legal for the simple fact that the UN security council didn't declare it illegal, that is the only body which comes CLOSE to having that kind of power. And so, it is completely legal for Israel to search ships heading to their blockade, even in international waters.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;23327629][URL]http://www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf[/URL] "5.2.2 Seizure and condemnation Cargo constituting contraband and a ship carrying such cargo may be seized by a belligerent, brought before a prize court and condemned. Confiscation without a prize court decision is prohibited."[/QUOTE] Yeah, except there was no contraband.
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