• No Drugs in Home of Ex-Marine Killed By SWAT Team
    160 replies, posted
Tucson? is that the same city that the crazy ass guy unloaded onto people at a political rally?
[QUOTE=niger;30179720]yet another 'drug war' related unnecessary death. [editline]1st June 2011[/editline] It seems SWAT never does anything other than raid harmless homes and kill innocent people. Of course that's going by recent news.[/QUOTE] That's because successful raids aren't publicised. :downs: You can have over 1000 raids, but if even a single one goes bad, it's all over the news. The other 999 successful raids aren't given any attention by the media.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;30193972]That's because successful raids aren't publicised. :downs: You can have over 1000 raids, but if even a single one goes bad, it's all over the news. The other 999 successful raids aren't given any attention by the media.[/QUOTE] exactly
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;30193972]That's because successful raids aren't publicised. :downs: You can have over 1000 raids, but if even a single one goes bad, it's all over the news. The other 999 successful raids aren't given any attention by the media.[/QUOTE] are you seriously complaining about the news media doing their job successful SWAT raids are not news
[QUOTE=Sanius;30194108]are you seriously complaining about the news media doing their job successful SWAT raids are not news[/QUOTE] no he's saying that the people who are yelling "OMG SWAT NEVER DO ANYTHING RIGHT" and other shit are dumb because 1 instance out of thousands is not a pattern
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;30193972]That's because successful raids aren't publicised. :downs: You can have over 1000 raids, but if even a single one goes bad, it's all over the news. The other 999 successful raids aren't given any attention by the media.[/QUOTE] what's your point? the police NEED to be held accountable for their fuck ups. [editline]2nd June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JerryK;30194163]no he's saying that the people who are yelling "OMG SWAT NEVER DO ANYTHING RIGHT" and other shit are dumb because 1 instance out of thousands is not a pattern[/QUOTE] this isn't an isolated incident though. it's happened plenty of times. don't try to downplay it like it's only happened once in a decade
the people involved need to be held accountable, not hundreds of thousands of other officers need to be grouped together because of a fuck-up
[QUOTE=nigfops;30192547]If she heard them walking around outside then she must have heard them yell POLICE at the top of their lungs, and if the husband was already awake with the gun at that point then he should have heard it.[/QUOTE] if she DID hear them identify themselves as police then why the fuck would she not tell her husband and just let him go out there with a gun in his hand that makes absolutely no sense
This makes me want to :smithicide:
[QUOTE=JDK721;30194176]what's your point? the police NEED to be held accountable for their fuck ups. [editline]2nd June 2011[/editline] this isn't an isolated incident though. it's happened plenty of times. don't try to downplay it like it's only happened once in a decade[/QUOTE] it can happen, it's not like it's happening every single day you have hundreds of thousands of officers all over the country dealing with millions of people, something is bound to go wrong but just because someone makes a mistake, doesn't mean they have to be grouped with the rest of the police department it's that whole "Fuck da police" mentality
[QUOTE=JerryK;30194281]it can happen, it's not like it's happening every single day you have hundreds of thousands of officers all over the country dealing with millions of people, something is bound to go wrong but just because someone makes a mistake, doesn't mean they have to be grouped with the rest of the police department[/QUOTE] that doesn't excuse or justify shit. that's the same excuse that people use when soldiers commit war crimes.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30194309]that doesn't excuse or justify shit. that's the same excuse that people use for war crimes. [/QUOTE] no, it doesn't excuse it that's why i said the people involved should be taken care of, obviously a mistake like this can't just be waved away but this also doesn't justify everyone making this out to be some sort of daily thing, and acting like all police officers are like this
[QUOTE=JerryK;30194339]but this also doesn't justify everyone making this out to be some sort of daily thing, and acting like all police officers are like this[/QUOTE] it's not daily, but it's happened SEVERAL times now there's no fucking reason to be raiding houses over marijuana
[QUOTE=JDK721;30194381]it's not daily, but it's happened SEVERAL times now there's no fucking reason to be raiding houses over marijuana[/QUOTE] i agree, but the police don't make the laws they just enforce them
welcome to arizona where you get shot everywhere and everyone
I forgot to put this in my other post, but aren't all police supposed to give criminals every opportunity to surrender, within reason? These guys should've at least told him to drop his gun and, if that failed, gone for a leg shot or something. It really does seem shoddy training is partially to blame.
[QUOTE=garrynohome;30176421]Nice job trying to paint him as the bad guy you idiots.[/QUOTE] It is far better for one person to die than for two. If he had nothing to hide, why was he holding the gun? He could have just dropped it on sight and no one would be harmed. and we don't even know the full story. how did the SWAT know the safety was on? did he point it at them? the police should pay tribute, but what they did was only for the safety of everyone.
[QUOTE=koeniginator;30200347]If he had nothing to hide, why was he holding the gun?[/QUOTE] what the fuck does that have to do with anything? he came out with a gun because his wife woke him up and told him that there were armed men outside. I'm assuming he presumed them to be intruders. [QUOTE=koeniginator;30200347]He could have just dropped it on sight and no one would be harmed.[/QUOTE] it was too late at that point. he had no idea it was SWAT. [QUOTE=koeniginator;30200347].how did the SWAT know the safety was on?[/QUOTE] they took it into evidence and looked at it [QUOTE=koeniginator;30200347]did he point it at them?[/QUOTE] no [QUOTE=koeniginator;30200347]what they did was only for the safety of everyone.[/QUOTE] no, it wasn't. they murdered an innocent person.
[QUOTE=koeniginator;30200347]what they did was only for the safety of everyone.[/QUOTE] because firing 77 rounds at somebody is safe for everyone
[QUOTE=JDK721;30201249]what the fuck does that have to do with anything? he came out with a gun because his wife woke him up and told him that there were armed men outside. I'm assuming he presumed them to be intruders.[/quote] His wife wouldn't just see some guys with weapons and not see their outfits or whatever. She knew it was the police. She would have told him that it was the police. [QUOTE=JDK721;30201249]it was too late at that point. he had no idea it was SWAT.[/quote] If his wife told him, he would have known it was the police. He had no legit reason for bringing the gun if it was the police and he had nothing to hide. [QUOTE=JDK721;30201249]they took it into evidence and looked at it[/quote] I mean before they shot him. Were they supposed to guess whether the safety was on? There is no way to tell at a distance. [QUOTE=JDK721;30201249]no[/quote] We don't know that. [QUOTE=JDK721;30201249]no, it wasn't. they murdered an innocent person.[/QUOTE] He was innocent, but he was doing something foolish he knew he shouldn't have been doing.
[QUOTE=JDK721;30201249] no, it wasn't. they murdered an innocent person.[/QUOTE] Do you have any idea what "murder" means? No one was "murdered". There was no malice, they were doing their job. They didn't go in there thinking "Oh boy I cant wait to shoot an innocent person!" [editline]2nd June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JDK721;30201249] no [/QUOTE] How do you know? Because if there is some hard evidence showing that he DIDN'T point his gun at them (Which I find unlikely considering the fact that most people probably would point their gun at a group of unknown armed intruders, instinctively) then the entry team is indeed at fault. SWAT teams are trained to subdue if possible before opening fire. They tend to avoid shooting an armed person unless the armed person shoots first or makes a threatening motion. [editline]2nd June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;30200299]I forgot to put this in my other post, but aren't all police supposed to give criminals every opportunity to surrender, within reason? These guys should've at least told him to drop his gun and, if that failed, gone for a leg shot or something. It really does seem shoddy training is partially to blame.[/QUOTE] Like I said, 99.9% of SWAT teams will not open fire UNLESS the person points the gun at them.
[QUOTE=koeniginator;30201885]His wife wouldn't just see some guys with weapons and not see their outfits or whatever. She knew it was the police. She would have told him that it was the police.[/QUOTE] bullshit if she KNEW it was the police then why would the husband go out there with a gun in his hand. he was an innocent man who wasn't engaged in any illegal activities. why the fuck all of a sudden would he decide to confront police officers. [QUOTE=koeniginator;30201885]He was innocent, but he was doing something foolish he knew he shouldn't have been doing.[/QUOTE] your wife wakes you up and tells you there are armed men outside your door, and since you had experienced a home invasion before, you assume that there are criminals about to break in, so you grab your gun and go out to see what's going on how the fuck is protecting your family foolish? [editline]2nd June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Timebomb575;30202228]Like I said, 99.9% of SWAT teams will not open fire UNLESS the person points the gun at them.[/QUOTE] baseless claim
[QUOTE=doonbugie2;30177153]Ex-marine = potentially dangerous.[/QUOTE] Your posts = shit
[QUOTE=koeniginator;30201885]His wife wouldn't just see some guys with weapons and not see their outfits or whatever. She knew it was the police. She would have told him that it was the police. [/QUOTE] it's cool because posters like you will most probably be the ones encouraging deadly force against an intruder or how personal ownership of firearms is always a good thing
[QUOTE=JDK721;30203666] baseless claim[/QUOTE] I help train SWAT teams. Pretty sure being on the other ends of their weapons during training as both a combatant and non-combatant would allow me to determine how good their fire control is. But yeah go ahead and tell me my claims are baseless.
jesus christ for a highly trained branch of the police force they sure do lack restraint if he was pointing the gun at them and yelling or something I guess you might be able to understand it, but I doubt he was that aggressive, I mean I know that a lot can happen in the heat of the moment in these kind of raids but this kind of shit seems to happen inordinately often that said I find it hard to believe he wouldn't now it was the police, maybe it was an error of judgement that he decided to carry the gun, or just instinct (he was in the marines after all), I mean I doubt it was to protect anything incriminating considering the most illegal thing found in his house was pot
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;30208024]I help train SWAT teams. Pretty sure being on the other ends of their weapons during training as both a combatant and non-combatant would allow me to determine how good their fire control is. But yeah go ahead and tell me my claims are baseless.[/QUOTE] ^ Plays airsoft on the weekends with his buddies and dreams of being in special forces
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;30214960]^ Plays airsoft on the weekends with his buddies[/QUOTE] Well yeah But playing airsoft is totally different from this so thats not really relevant.
It's shit like this that breaks my heart. Not only for the loss of an innocent life, but for the smear that has been left on the Tuscon Police Department, the amount of hell the guys are going to be getting for this will be terrible. Not the SWAT guys, they get whatever is coming to them, but the normal beat cop or sergeant who sits behind a desk 32 hours a week. They don't deserve that, just because seven guys have itchy trigger fingers. I hope the police department can do right for the widow and fire these ass holes.
Too bad he didn't shoot any of the fuckers before they got him.
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