• Looks like the media is trying to create another Trayvon story - Teen dies after being tasered
    267 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41807402]Skimmed through, almost ALL of them were due to some sort of heart problem or impact with the concrete. Some aren't even directly due to the tazer.[/QUOTE] I don't see how "they had heart problems" assuages the responsibility of the police considering how prevalent congenital heart defects and other heart problems are. If so many people have heart problems then doesn't that challenge the evaluation of a taser as being "safe"? [QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41807402]Also that's really not a lot of cases. A few hundred recorded deaths by taser since 2003 is not a lot.[/QUOTE] "Just a few hundred people dead. No big deal."
[QUOTE=zakedodead;41807441]So the only job of police is to enforce laws. So they exist to enforce arbitrary shit that those with power legislate regardless of if they protect anyone. Why the fuck do people tolerate this? Also why are all these cases about abusive husbands?[/QUOTE] Some of them are, and others on the list are about someone dying or someone mentally/physically scarred because the police weren't there. What you have to understand though is some of those cases were appealed a number of times up to the US supreme court just to give you a hint of how important they were. Yeah, it sucks, but that's the truth. :/
If something is only "safe" when used against people who don't have heart conditions, aren't suffering from exhaustion, aren't under the influence of illegal drugs or prescription medications, haven't forgotten to do their morning stretches, didn't forget to brush their teeth, or haven't been recently brutalized by the police then [b]THAT THING ISN'T SAFE[/b].
while on the topic of tasering... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCNWYnTjtag[/media] my favorite video
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41807459]"Just a few hundred people dead. No big deal."[/QUOTE] I wish I had a chart that shows how many people a taser has saved. Too bad we only give a shit about taser use when someone dies on accident.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41807498]haven't forgotten to do their morning stretches, didn't forget to brush their teeth, or haven't been recently brutalized by the police then [B]THAT THING ISN'T SAFE[/B].[/QUOTE] I love this part, they finally realize they have no argument and just start spouting whatever they feel like and pretending it counts. This is where it starts to get fun.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807534]I love this part, they finally realize they have no argument and just start spouting whatever they feel like and pretending it counts. This is where it starts to get fun.[/QUOTE] yeah its almost as great as when posters who aren't smart enough to defend their initial stance on an issue just start making fun of people who are capable of expressing themselves in depth [editline]12th August 2013[/editline] almost
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41807548]yeah its almost as great as when posters who aren't smart enough to defend their initial stance on an issue just start making fun of people who are capable of expressing themselves in depth [editline]12th August 2013[/editline] almost[/QUOTE] Does this actually mean anything? Or is it just another example of what I said?
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41807531]I wish I had a chart that shows how many people a taser has saved. Too bad we only give a shit about taser use when someone dies on accident.[/QUOTE] Yo, wtf is nuance? I'm totally in favor of the use of Tasers on people who are [i]posing a threat[/i] to other people. Someone running away from the scene of a minor act of vandalism is not posing a threat to anybody. Tasers are something that should be used with extreme discretion, just like a firearm. They should not be able to be used whenever a cop feels like it.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41807615]Yo, wtf is nuance? I'm totally in favor of the use of Tasers on people who are [i]posing a threat[/i] to other people. Someone running away from the scene of a minor act of vandalism is not posing a threat to anybody. Tasers are something that should be used with extreme discretion, just like a firearm. They should not be able to be used whenever a cop feels like it.[/QUOTE] I agree 100%! Cops shouldn't stop criminals at all! Vandalism should just be paid for by the owner of the property, right? Oh my god, you've solved all crime right there! I think we should get rid of handcuffs too. Sometimes they cut into people when they resist an officer, and it can cause them to get hurt. No. Crime is crime. If he hadn't been ruining private property he wouldn't have been chased by the police. If he hadn't been running from the police, he wouldn't have been killed by a taser in a freak accident.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41807653]I agree 100%! Cops shouldn't stop criminals at all! Vandalism should just be paid for by the owner of the property, right? Oh my god, you've solved all crime right there! I think we should get rid of handcuffs too. Sometimes they cut into people when they resist an officer, and it can cause them to get hurt. No. Crime is crime. If he hadn't been ruining private property he wouldn't have been chased by the police. If he hadn't been running from the police, he wouldn't have been killed by a taser in a freak accident.[/QUOTE] Please tell me when your mind decides that fleeing warrants assault. Just because they're cops?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;41807615]Yo, wtf is nuance? I'm totally in favor of the use of Tasers on people who are [i]posing a threat[/i] to other people. Someone running away from the scene of a minor act of vandalism is not posing a threat to anybody. Tasers are something that should be used with extreme discretion, just like a firearm. They should not be able to be used whenever a cop feels like it.[/QUOTE] Because people never injure innocent bystanders when fleeing from the police. However, I agree with your point about needing to use TASERs with discretion, along with firearms. [editline]12th August 2013[/editline] I'm not saying it was necessarily justified in this case either.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;41807658]Please tell me when you mind decides that fleeing warrants assault. Just because they're cops?[/QUOTE] Yes, if you run from a cop for any reason they have the right to give chase on-foot without question. The simple fact that the kid panicked and ran off almost definitely made the cop believe that he was a possible criminal with warrants on his name, as that's literally the only reason to run from the misdemeanor he probably would have gotten off with a warning for. The kid made a bad decision, the cop reacted perfectly within his rights as an officer, and it ended tragically.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807670]Yes, if you run from a cop for any reason they have the right to give chase on-foot without question. The simple fact that the kid panicked and ran off almost definitely made the cop believe that he was a possible criminal with warrants on his name, as that's literally the only reason to run from the misdemeanor [B]he probably would have gotten off with a warning for[/B]. The kid made a bad decision, the cop reacted perfectly within his rights as an officer, and it ended tragically.[/QUOTE] you dont know a lot about the world of graffiti do you [editline]12th August 2013[/editline] getting off with a warning for graffiti pretty much doesn't happen (at least in this universe) and given that he was 18 his punishment could have ranged from fines, jail time to a beating
[QUOTE=zakedodead;41807658]Please tell me when your mind decides that fleeing warrants assault. Just because they're cops?[/QUOTE] When does being an "artist" warrant spraypainting on a building? The cops needed to catch him and force him to pay the price for committing a crime. Paying the price would be paying for damages along with any jail time, fines, or community service that is involved. It's sad he died, but the cops were upholding the law.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807670]Yes, if you run from a cop for any reason they have the right to give chase on-foot without question. The simple fact that the kid panicked and ran off almost definitely made the cop believe that he was a possible criminal with warrants on his name, as that's literally the only reason to run from the misdemeanor he probably would have gotten off with a warning for. The kid made a bad decision, the cop reacted perfectly within his rights as an officer, and it ended tragically.[/QUOTE] Yeah but what gives the cops the right to assault someone for running away? (other than government sponsorship)
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41807690]you dont know a lot about the world of graffiti do you[/QUOTE] Yeah I do, and on an abandoned building that had already been tagged multiple times, once the officer learned of his age and no prior criminal record, it would be very reasonable to let him off with a warning. But no, lets see what kind of persecution complexes you're holding.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41807707]When does being an "artist" warrant spraypainting on a building? The cops needed to catch him and force him to pay the price for committing a crime. Paying the price would be paying for damages along with any jail time, fines, or community service that is involved. It's sad he died, but the cops were upholding the law.[/QUOTE] I never said he was immune to the law, but the cops broke it also and get a free pass because they're cops.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;41807709]Yeah but what gives the cops the right to assault someone for running away? (other than government sponsorship)[/QUOTE] It's not assault if you're running from the police for fucks sake. It's lawful restraint and detainment because you just broke the law.
[QUOTE=zakedodead;41807709]Yeah but what gives the cops the right to assault someone for running away? (other than government sponsorship)[/QUOTE] Police are allowed per law to use reasonable force to gain control of a suspect. aaand in case anyone wants to fight me on this one: [quote]Reasonable force may be used upon or toward the person of another without the other's consent when the following circumstances exist or the actor reasonably believes them to exist: (1) when used by a public officer or one assisting a public officer under the public officer's direction: (a) in effecting a lawful arrest; or (b) in the execution of legal process; or (c) in enforcing an order of the court; or (d) in executing any other duty imposed upon the public officer by law [/quote]
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807710]Yeah I do, and on an abandoned building that had already been tagged multiple times, once the officer learned of his age and no prior criminal record, it would be very reasonable to let him off with a warning. But no, lets see what kind of persecution complexes you're holding.[/QUOTE] uhh its not a persecution complex its me having a basic understanding and level of personal experience with graffiti. it certainly WOULD be reasonable to let him off with a warning but thats not what happens and it certainly wouldnt have happened if he stuck around. running away is the best choice 99% of the time
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41807726]uhh its not a persecution complex its me having a basic understanding and level of personal experience with graffiti. it certainly WOULD be reasonable to let him off with a warning but thats not what happens and it certainly wouldnt have happened if he stuck around. running away is the best choice 99% of the time[/QUOTE] I love you. No facts or evidence, but you can still make claims with 99% accuracy. Lovely.
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807732]I love you. No facts or evidence, but you can still make claims with 99% accuracy. Lovely. :)[/QUOTE] yeah i feel really sorry posting about my personal experiences regarding the police and graffiti (as well as shit that is just common knowledge if you know anything about graffiti) in response to your long list of citations and studies that support YOUR idea of what would happen to him. [editline]12th August 2013[/editline] have you ever been arrested for vandalism or chased by police
[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807732]I love you. No facts or evidence, but you can still make claims with 99% accuracy. Lovely.[/QUOTE] Trust me, a graffiti artist is more likely to run and hope to get away from the police than they are to pay a fine and possible jail time. I used to be really big into the graffiti community, and people even made guides on ways to avoid the police. They most certainly hate police.
Well one time I was confronted by the police for "vandalizing" a disused school field by riding my small motorcycle on it. I was let off with a warning.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41807744]yeah i feel really sorry posting about my personal experiences regarding the police and graffiti (as well as shit that is just common knowledge if you know anything about graffiti) in response to your long list of citations and studies that support YOUR idea of what would happen to him.[/QUOTE] I never listed anything because I didn't try and act like my knowledge is encyclopedic, I've stated simple facts so well known it's pretty much common sense at this point. The only reason a cop would want this kid for graffiti so bad is cause he was a dick with a grudge, which anyone is likely to encounter, not specifically you poor hard done by graffiti artists. You've claimed to be completely accurate in your understanding of encounters with any of the hundreds of thousands of police officers. You're not even trying any more so I'm not going to either.
[QUOTE=Apache249;41807756]Well one time I was confronted by the police for "vandalizing" a disused school field by riding my small motorcycle on it. I was let off with a warning.[/QUOTE] A disused field being driven on is a hell of a lot different from spraypaint on somebodys wall.
[QUOTE=Apache249;41807756]Well one time I was confronted by the police for "vandalizing" a disused school field by riding my small motorcycle on it. I was let off with a warning.[/QUOTE] thats cool but not remotely comparable so [QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;41807758]I never listed anything because I didn't try and act like my knowledge is encyclopedic, I've stated simple facts so well known it's pretty much common sense at this point. You've claimed to be completely accurate in your understanding of encounters with any of the hundreds of thousands of police officers. You're not even trying any more so I'm not going to either.[/QUOTE] what are you talking about? so you posting "facts that are pretty much common sense" without any sources or citations is acceptable, but me posting from personal experience and "facts that are pretty much common sense" (that literally everyone who has ever been involved in graffiti will agree with me on, see: chernobyl) isn't?
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;41807768]A disused field being driven on is a hell of a lot different from spraypaint on somebodys wall.[/QUOTE] Yeah I know I was just saying.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41807771]thats cool but not remotely comparable so what are you talking about? so you posting "facts that are pretty much common sense" without any sources or citations is acceptable, but me posting from personal experience and "facts that are pretty much common sense" (that literally everyone who has ever been involved in graffiti will agree with me on, see: chernobyl) isn't?[/QUOTE] I wasn't referring to our conversation because there are no statistics or laws to argue here. All this is is just a whiny kid acting like spray painting shit gives you license to run from police.
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