'Am I being executed?' Brazilian killed by Indonesia unaware until end, says priest
61 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Primigenes;47631888]How did you read this thread and come to this assumption[/QUOTE]
People are saying he should not be executed because he's mentally ill, so if he wasn't it would be most likely okay?
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47631383]Im okay with executing real terrorists and such (hate and dumb me all you want) but these kind of situations are plain wrong on many levels.[/QUOTE]
Despite them actually being able to redeem themselves?
One of the local radio stations in my country is doing a series on reformed terrorists and these people have reformed and actually re-entered society.
How does killing these people make the world a better place?
Killing these people would just discourage prisoners to even attempt to better themselves as all of it is for nothing if they're going to get killed.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47631905]People are saying he should not be executed because he's mentally ill, so if he wasn't it would be most likely okay?[/QUOTE]
it is not okay to execute anyone under any circumstances
life sentence w/ out parole for serious, unforgivable crimes
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47631920]it is not okay to execute anyone under any circumstances
life sentence w/ out parole for serious, unforgivable crimes[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm implying, executions are simply wrong, mentally ill or not.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;47631767][quote]‘I’m 72 years old, I’ll be heading to heaven in the near future, so you find out where my house is and prepare a garden for me.'[/quote]I'm curious what you mean by this. I don't see how that quote conveys that, but I'm interested.[/QUOTE]
I just mean, my life consists of getting up, working, studying, meeting friends, trying to achieve goals. I've never hit a point where life's just said 'fuck you' and slammed a brick wall in my face, or some emotional trauma has affected me deeply.
But this priest spends his time consoling people on death row, who he knows he can't help, some of which he knows don't deserve to die. This guy has lived such a life that he can deal with that stress, and still help the people in some way. I've just never had that kind of responsibility thrust upon me.
I've been so fucking angry about this whole situation this whole week. Every piece of successive news is like another slap in the face.
[url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-30/mary-exposto-faces-possible-death-penalty-after-chemists-report/6435410]Another Australian might be facing the death sentence for carrying drugs,this time in Malaysia[/url]
[QUOTE=Occlusion;47631927]I just mean, my life consists of getting up, working, studying, meeting friends, trying to achieve goals. I've never hit a point where life's just said 'fuck you' and slammed a brick wall in my face, or some emotional trauma has affected me deeply.
But this priest spends his time consoling people on death row, who he knows he can't help, some of which he knows don't deserve to die. This guy has lived such a life that he can deal with that stress, and still help the people in some way. I've just never had that kind of responsibility thrust upon me.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, I see. Makes sense.
By the way - this is some l'etranger/Albert Camus stuff.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;47631406]Paranoid Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder must be real easy to fake :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
A trained neurologist/neuropsychologist can tell the difference. There are standardized tests.
Most people who try to fake these things end up exaggerating only the things that they think are characteristic of these types of disorders, while completely missing the bits that are actually characteristic of it.
In a court room however, it probably wouldn't be that hard to persuade a jury though.
[QUOTE=Karmah;47632085]A trained neurologist/neuropsychologist can tell the difference. There are standardized tests.
Most people who try to fake these things end up exaggerating only the things that they think are characteristic of these types of disorders, while completely missing the bits that are actually characteristic of it.
In a court room however, it probably wouldn't be that hard to persuade a jury though.[/QUOTE]
Depends on who fakes it, obviously. People who fake it to avoid legal repercussions or other reasons can be hard to see through if they're clever, but if someone fakes it because they're a chronic liar and an attention seeker (which are mental issues in themselves) then it's extremely obvious.
[QUOTE=Bathtub;47631310]imagine legally executing people over drugs[/QUOTE]
Imagine legally executing people.
Especially given how many people are wrongfully convicted.
I think that the one single possible thing that might justify execution is if inmate jailed for life in prison without parole asks for it, and even then I would be quite cautious about it, it would have to be ensured the inmate isn't being pressured into it, or mishandled by the prison personnel.
I am not even sure if I am ok with life in prison without parole being a legit sentence.
How can a nation, in this day and age, legally execute non-citizens for petty drug offenses? Just seize their drugs/illicit items, deport them home, and ban them from traveling to your country. It's that simple. Do you really have to execute them? Thank you Indonesia, Singapore, and Malaysia for showing the civilized world that you will take any legal chance to execute someone, citizen or not, for any reason you are unwilling to tolerate and that we still have a long way to go for human rights and ethics.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;47631868]If we're going to discuss the death penalty I'm going to leave my two cents here as well.
I think the death penalty (as far as civilians go, not counting the military and war related executions which are another business entirely) must be allowed in exclusivity to extreme, otherwise unsolvable situations, following [I]all[/I] of these criteria :
- The detainee must be otherwise sentenced to a life sentence without parole (no leaving prison alive, period).
- The detainee must show willingness to commit other serious offences, both in and outside of prison.
- The detainee must be aggressive to himself and other individuals in prison on a very regular basis.
- The detainee must commit attempts to escape.
If every single one of these criteria are met, then the person should be eligible for a quick and clean death. They don't meet a [I]single[/I] one of these conditions, tough shit, they stay alive and in a cell, not dead in a coffin.
Additionally, I think every individual sentenced to life without parole should have a right to demand an execution, with appropriate counseling by one or several psychiatrists to determine whether or not this is justified or linked to clinical depression.
So in short, the death penalty should be a last resort for when a person's detention turns into constant containment, because at this point it becomes more inhumane to contain them for life than to end their life. In any other case, tough shit, give them a life sentence and stop there.[/QUOTE]
To execute someone for any reason less than these is inhumane and ethically abhorable.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;47631389]This is wrong regardless of your stance on the death penalty because the very idea of someone that mentally ill being given a conviction is wrong.[/QUOTE]
That's what I said? lol
[QUOTE=Karmah;47632085]A trained neurologist/neuropsychologist can tell the difference. There are standardized tests.
Most people who try to fake these things end up exaggerating only the things that they think are characteristic of these types of disorders, while completely missing the bits that are actually characteristic of it.
In a court room however, it probably wouldn't be that hard to persuade a jury though.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to be a trained neurologist or psychiatrist to be able to tell the difference lol. You just need to have a good understanding of the signs/symptoms for those disorders and be able to read into what people say well. Also there's a super easy test called the M-FAST which is an easily administered test that gauges the likelihood that someone is making shit up.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47632303]Thank you Indonesia, Malaysia, and Brazil for showing the civilized world that you will take any legal chance to execute someone, citizen or not, for any reason you are unwilling to tolerate and that we still have a long way to go for human rights and ethics.[/QUOTE]
There's no death penalty in Brazil. It was a brazilian being executed on Indonesia.
[QUOTE=Bathtub;47631310]imagine legally executing people over drugs[/QUOTE]
"Drugs are bad for you and everyone else, so we'll kill you if we find you using them."
[editline]30th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47632250]I think that the one single possible thing that might justify execution is if inmate jailed for life in prison without parole asks for it, and even then I would be quite cautious about it, it would have to be ensured the inmate isn't being pressured into it, or mishandled by the prison personnel.
I am not even sure if I am ok with life in prison without parole being a legit sentence.[/QUOTE]
I would rather have assisted suicide for prisoners with a life in prison sentence without the chance of parole.
[QUOTE=ultra_bright;47632982]"Drugs are bad for you and everyone else, so we'll kill you if we find you using them."[/QUOTE]
The problem isn't the drugs, it's drugs trafic and drug cartels.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47632742]There's no death penalty in Brazil. It was a brazilian being executed on Indonesia.[/QUOTE]
Fixed. What a brain fart.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;47632303]How can a nation, in this day and age, legally execute non-citizens for petty drug offenses? Just seize their drugs/illicit items, deport them home, and ban them from traveling to your country. It's that simple. Do you really have to execute them? Thank you Indonesia, Singapore, and Malaysia for showing the civilized world that you will take any legal chance to execute someone, citizen or not, for any reason you are unwilling to tolerate and that we still have a long way to go for human rights and ethics.
To execute someone for any reason less than these is inhumane and ethically abhorable.[/QUOTE]
really don't get what the point of this post was. are you shocked that countries like these exist or are you unaware of the reality that underdeveloped and backwards nations are commonplace in today's world?
[QUOTE=snookypookums;47631871]Jesus, that's sad.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arridy"]Reminds me of this guy, Joe Arridy.[/URL]
It's bad enough that Indonesia did this, but there really needs to be [I]some [/I]humanitarian conditions in case mental illness is involved.[/QUOTE]
Damn that was reminiscent of "Of Mice and Men", my heart man.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47632530]That's what I said? lol[/QUOTE]
Yeah, was just kinda trying to clarify that this is messed up no matter what you think of the death penalty and how elitist you are about it.
[QUOTE=Nif90;47631392]and how do we know he was not pretending to escape the death penalty.[/QUOTE]
As many others have said, it's pretty hard to fake, for example
[video=youtube;NjJgYWqNNIE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjJgYWqNNIE[/video]
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;47633161]Yeah, was just kinda trying to clarify that this is messed up no matter what you think of the death penalty and how elitist you are about it.[/QUOTE]
Elitist? lol, how can you be elitist about the death penalty.
"Uhh, this death row is certainly not up to snuff. Where's the sense of decor? I feel like this electric chair could be better designed. Maybe we can bring in someone to spice the place up."
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;47633979]Elitist? lol, how can you be elitist about the death penalty.
"Uhh, this death row is certainly not up to snuff. Where's the sense of decor? I feel like this electric chair could be better designed. Maybe we can bring in someone to spice the place up."[/QUOTE]
I think by being an elitist about the death penalty, he meant being the kind of person who agrees with the death penalty and be overly prideful and zealous about it as if the death penalty being 100% good was an objective fact.
[QUOTE=Skerion;47634291]I think by being an elitist about the death penalty, she meant being the kind of person who agrees with the death penalty and be overly prideful and zealous about it as if the death penalty being 100% good was an objective fact.[/QUOTE]
And vice versa. People on both sides try to make it into a black and white issue so they can feel like they're above the opposition, when the reality is it's not that simple.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;47635532]And vice versa. People on both sides try to make it into a black and white issue so they can feel like they're above the opposition, when the reality is it's not that simple.[/QUOTE]
In a perfect world, if we could perfectly analyse whether or not someone had committed a heinous crime, then maybe the death penalty would be reasonable.
But as it stands, it's just too risky, and it will always be too risky. Every year the States executes people who are likely innocent.
Am I being elitist right now? Please, enlighten me.
[quote]Burrows told Guardian Australia that guards on Nusa Kambangan, the prison island where Indonesia executes convicts, had broken down crying when 30-year-old Mary Jane Veloso said goodbye to her two children for what was thought to be the final time.
He said Veloso had shown “a false sense of joy” during her final visit with her family and sons, aged 12 and six, but broke down at 2pm on Tuesday when told it was time to say goodbye. “She begged for more time, ‘Will I not get longer with my children? They’ll never see me again, I’ll never see them again,’” Burrows said.
“The whole place broke down in tears. The warden and attorneys felt real bad about it. They said to me they didn’t agree with the thing, they just had to do their job, that there should be a moratorium.”[/quote]
Wow fuck :wtc:
[QUOTE=Matrix374;47631946][URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-30/mary-exposto-faces-possible-death-penalty-after-chemists-report/6435410"]Another Australian might be facing the death sentence for carrying drugs,this time in Malaysia[/URL][/QUOTE]
Oh hey, yet another wonderful neighbour of ours!
I wonder when it'll be our turn to show the world how stupid and backwards our laws are.
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