US has pressured Britain, Germany, Australia, to charge WikiLeaks editor with espionage
371 replies, posted
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23968621]No they're asking for help, they plan on trying to get him on charges too. He committed a crime by releasing confidential government information. Half of FP is saying good for him because they're fuck the government anyways. Another part is fuck the U.S. in general. No one seems to realize he committed a crime.[/QUOTE]
because they're butthurt that he exposed that the afghanistan war has been a total failure and that the US has been committing war crimes and covering them up
regardless of legality, he did the right thing morally
Ehem, US government, insurance.aes256
[QUOTE=JDK721;23968685]because they're butthurt that he exposed that the afghanistan war has been a total failure and that the US has been committing war crimes and covering them up
regardless of legality, he did the right thing morally[/QUOTE]
No he did not, dropping the atomic bombs was the wrong thing morally but logically it was the better choice. There's a point where your morals need to get out of the way and stop effecting your decisions. The US is in a WAR. This guy is releasing information during wartime that pertains to the war. It should stay classified until the end of the war. After that I don't care what happens, but one day hes going to release the wrong information and everyone is going to end up saying, HE WENT TO FAR.
[QUOTE=JDK721;23968685]because they're butthurt that he exposed that the afghanistan war has been a total failure and that the US has been committing war crimes and covering them up
regardless of legality, he did the right thing morally[/QUOTE]
WE MEET AGAIN!!!
Well that last point dosent make sense. So as long as some people say it's morally ok, that overides the law? I could kill a congressmen and get away with it because morally it was ok?
[QUOTE=veribigbos1;23962251]US is like that kid who keeps cheating in tests and everything else, and when you tell everyone about it he goes crying to his friends and tries to round up a mob so you'd be too afraid to show up at school the next day[/QUOTE]
17 Americunts rated this post boxes
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone;23969149]17 Americunts rated this post boxes[/QUOTE]
I'm not even American and I rated it dumb only for the simple fact that his metaphor was unrelated in any way to this situation.
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone;23969149]17 Americunts rated this post boxes[/QUOTE]
Thanks for proving what I said earlier.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23968863]No he did not, dropping the atomic bombs was the wrong thing morally but logically it was the better choice.[/QUOTE]
Japan was ready to pull out of the war before the bombs were dropped. Logically, it wasn't the better choice. It was just dick-waving.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23969284]Japan was ready to pull out of the war before the bombs were dropped. Logically, it wasn't the better choice. It was just dick-waving.[/QUOTE]
Japan was, the emperor wasn't. And Japan didn't have much say in that. It was logically the better choice, drop two bombs, kill less than 300,000 people, or send in troops and lose millions in a struggle over 4 islands.
I hope britain does not follow. But it sucks the usa's arse. If they don't want these things to happen, don't do them.
[QUOTE=JDK721;23968259]wikileaks did the right thing
the public deserves to know about the countless war crimes that have been committed and covered up[/QUOTE]
Stop running around spewing out retarded shit over and over again. What the hell are you trying to achieve, everyone knows there are war crimes in a goddamned war. Be it on a large scale or a small one, and no one can effectively stop it. Get over it and move on with your life.
[QUOTE=bravehat;23963170]You're a fucking idiot.
You really really are.
The US army doesn't decapitate enemy combatants, the taliban torture and kill coalition forces, they torture and kill civilians.
Seriously you are so fucking horribly misinformed.[/QUOTE]
Nope you are the misinformed one.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse[/url]
They also kill civilians, a fair number of which could of been prevented, (look up civilian deaths in the Afghan war) If they had been more cautious as to where civilians are likely to be. But no as long as they get them terrorists they do not care for the civilians. Why do you think the Us is so upset that wikileaks has decided to leak this information? Because it is showing proof that the Usa has commited crimes and are covering them up. It is not just the Usa but Britain,Canada and other coalition forces.
Has anyone actually pointed out to the US government that he didn't commit the espionage. An organization he represents (not himself) was handed the data and they published it (as journalists).
They also need to be told that you cannot return a digital file, but that's for the other thread.
[QUOTE=veribigbos1;23962251]US is like that kid who keeps cheating in tests and everything else, and when you tell everyone about it he goes crying to his friends and tries to round up a mob so you'd be too afraid to show up at school the next day[/QUOTE]
No, I think you've just described yourself minus the mob part.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23969284]Japan was ready to pull out of the war before the bombs were dropped. Logically, it wasn't the better choice. It was just dick-waving.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and America doesn't want to be in any fucking wars in the middle east, but it's all up to the rich folks that lead the country. It doesn't matter what Japan wanted. Nuking them was the only choice left.
You know what the whole thing is? If wikileaks has the documents, and the person who got them was ranked Private First Class, and most of the ground troops had access to these documents, what are the chances that the Taliban/Insurgency didn't already have access to them?
I'd say pretty low, and I'd also say that the main reason why the Taliban are trying to say that they're going to target these people all of a sudden is to help distract from the real issue in the documents, which is that we know we can't win. The Taliban doesn't really want us out; us being there helps gather more people for their cause.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;23970323]
I'd say pretty low, and I'd also say that the main reason why the Taliban are trying to say that they're going to target these people all of a sudden is to help distract from the real issue in the documents, which is that we know we can't win. The Taliban doesn't really want us out; us being there helps gather more people for their cause.[/QUOTE]
Rank has nothing to do with what you can access at a low rank, its your security clearance that matters and what your higher ups give you access to.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23969996]Nope you are the misinformed one.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse[/URL]
They also kill civilians, a fair number of which could of been prevented, (look up civilian deaths in the Afghan war) If they had been more cautious as to where civilians are likely to be. But no as long as they get them terrorists they do not care for the civilians. Why do you think the Us is so upset that wikileaks has decided to leak this information? Because it is showing proof that the Usa has commited crimes and are covering them up. It is not just the Usa but Britain,Canada and other coalition forces.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Melnek;23969766]Stop running around spewing out retarded shit over and over again. What the hell are you trying to achieve, everyone knows there are war crimes in a goddamned war. Be it on a large scale or a small one, and no one can effectively stop it. Get over it and move on with your life.[/QUOTE]
great
the war crime apologist is here. once again you're trying to justify them by saying "it happens. get over it." that is fucking TERRIBLE logic.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23970776]Rank has nothing to do with what you can access at a low rank, its your security clearance that matters and what your higher ups give you access to.[/QUOTE]
It was said that the documents were able to be widely accessed by those on the ground, for the sake of convenience. I can't find the exact quote right now, so take that for what you will
Also, I've generally liked Kerry in the past, but he makes a really good point here:
"However illegally these documents came to light, they raise serious questions about the reality of America's policy toward Pakistan and Afghanistan. Those policies are at a critical stage and these documents may very well underscore the stakes and make the calibrations needed to get the policy right more urgent."
[editline]06:12PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Melnek;23969766]Stop running around spewing out retarded shit over and over again. What the hell are you trying to achieve, everyone knows there are war crimes in a goddamned war. Be it on a large scale or a small one, and no one can effectively stop it. Get over it and move on with your life.[/QUOTE]
The point is to end the war, like in the way the Pentagon Papers did.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23969996]Nope you are the misinformed one.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse[/url]
They also kill civilians, a fair number of which could of been prevented, (look up civilian deaths in the Afghan war) If they had been more cautious as to where civilians are likely to be. But no as long as they get them terrorists they do not care for the civilians. Why do you think the Us is so upset that wikileaks has decided to leak this information? Because it is showing proof that the Usa has commited crimes and are covering them up. It is not just the Usa but Britain,Canada and other coalition forces.[/QUOTE]
You people constantly forget the fact that the enemy could be fucking anyone. The soldiers have NO way of knowing anything which is why they're paranoid 24/7 and it's exactly why there are many civilian casualties from time to time.
I agree that there are sometimes occasions as the one you linked but that doesn't mean it happens everywhere to every soldier in there, it's just blind generalization.
If you look at the long term side of this whole situation, Wikileaks is doing much more damage than it does good.
[editline]10:15PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=JDK721;23971029]great
the war crime apologist is here. once again you're trying to justify them by saying "it happens. get over it." that is fucking TERRIBLE logic.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't be saying that if I knew there was a way to stop it other than the obvious solution.
Oh sure, you can't legally release a couple documents, but you can legally tell anyone how to make a hydro bomb.
See, this is why America is going to fail.
[QUOTE=Melnek;23971119]I wouldn't be saying that if I knew there was a way to stop it other than the obvious solution.[/QUOTE]
so covering them up too is right?
[QUOTE=Melnek;23971119]You people constantly forget the fact that the enemy could be fucking anyone. The soldiers have NO way of knowing anything which is why they're paranoid 24/7 and it's exactly why there are many civilian casualties from time to time.
I agree that there are sometimes occasions as the one you linked but that doesn't mean it happens everywhere to every soldier in there, it's just blind generalization.
If you look at the long term side of this whole situation, Wikileaks is doing much more damage than it does good.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to see your research and your figures on that.
I have some right here:
[LIST]
[*]As mentioned in this article, the number of people that are /possibly/ named in the documents stands at 400. Let's assume they all get murdered.
[*]Because the documents cover only up until early 2009, much of the strategy is irrelevant today, and almost all of the intel that could be gained from reports on combat could just as easily be gained via astute field observations. No real extra deaths of soldiers here.
[*]Because of these documents, we may end up stopping this war years in advance, every year that we gain from these documents not fighting saves about 6,500 people a year (both sides, including insurgents)
[/LIST]
Yeah, I don't see how you can honestly say what you said without either being disingenuous or just blind.
[QUOTE=Bobie;23962139]lol whats australia going to do?
ban wikileaks?[/QUOTE]
No the Julian guy is born in Australia, Thus because Australia is also in the war, Its espionage, But i dont think Australia will follow this bullshit or if we do, Only for the fact that america protects us.
[QUOTE=JDK721;23971182]so covering them up too is right?[/QUOTE]
this is exactly what I'm saying.
if there are already all the crimes, why would you ADD to the fucking shitstorm by leaking everything to the public? the public won't be able to stop it since there are too many blind retards out there who support the war for some of the most ignorant reasons there could possibly be. It's simply put, fueling the fire.
[QUOTE=Melnek;23971273]this is exactly what I'm saying.
if there are already all the crimes, why would you ADD to the fucking shitstorm by leaking everything to the public? the public won't be able to stop it since there are too many blind retards out there who support the war for some of the most ignorant reasons there could possibly be. It's simply put, fueling the fire.[/QUOTE]
That's the point. The point is to make people give a shit and actually think for once.
[QUOTE=Melnek;23971273]if there are already all the crimes, why would you ADD to the fucking shitstorm by leaking everything to the public? the public won't be able to stop it since there are too many blind retards out there who support the war for some of the most ignorant reasons there could possibly be. It's simply put, fueling the fire.[/QUOTE]
the public deserves to know the truth
after all, they're PAYING for the war
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;23971311]That's the point. The point is to make people give a shit and actually think for once.[/QUOTE]
But do any of them actually care? I've yet to see real results of real people in numbers that will get the attention of your government. And until then I put no faith in Wikileaks.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;23971249]I'd like to see your research and your figures on that.
I have some right here:
[LIST]
[*]As mentioned in this article, the number of people that are /possibly/ named in the documents stands at 400. Let's assume they all get murdered.
[*]Because the documents cover only up until early 2009, much of the strategy is irrelevant today, and almost all of the intel that could be gained from reports on combat could just as easily be gained via astute field observations. No real extra deaths of soldiers here.
[*]Because of these documents, we may end up stopping this war years in advance, every year that we gain from these documents not fighting saves about 6,500 people a year (both sides, including insurgents)
[/LIST]
Yeah, I don't see how you can honestly say what you said without either being disingenuous or just blind.[/QUOTE]
You know that train predicament? The one where the train is going to hit 5 people tied to the tracks but you have the chance to switch it to another track where it'll kill 1?
If someone does die because of this, the people who will think Assange has blood on his hands are the same people who would think switching that train over makes you a murderer. (ie, dumbasses)
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