US has pressured Britain, Germany, Australia, to charge WikiLeaks editor with espionage
371 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Melnek;23971455]But do any of them actually care? I've yet to see real results of real people in numbers that will get the attention of your government. And until then I put no faith in Wikileaks.[/QUOTE]
I care. So do others. And more will follow. The people who supported this war will realise in the years to come what a big fail it was.
[QUOTE=Melnek;23971273]this is exactly what I'm saying.
if there are already all the crimes, why would you ADD to the fucking shitstorm by leaking everything to the public? the public won't be able to stop it since there are too many blind retards out there who support the war for some of the most ignorant reasons there could possibly be. It's simply put, fueling the fire.[/QUOTE]
It is not fueling the fire. It is Opening people's eyes.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23971496]You know that train predicament? The one where the train is going to hit 5 people tied to the tracks but you have the chance to switch it to another track where it'll kill 1?
If someone does die because of this, the people who will think Assange has blood on his hands are the same people who would think switching that train over makes you a murderer. (ie, dumbasses)[/QUOTE]
How about the track where you'll kill no one by not releasing the documents, the one where you don't start the train without thinking about whats ahead.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23971845]How about the track where you'll kill no one by not releasing the documents, the one where you don't start the train without thinking about whats ahead.[/QUOTE]
so just let the military continue committing war crimes (murdering civilians, etc.) and covering them up
great
[QUOTE=JDK721;23971860]so just let the military continue committing war crimes (murdering civilians, etc.) and covering them up
great[/QUOTE]
Welcome to war, there are no fucking rules. Don't let the RoE or the Geneva Conventions fool you, when a full out war breaks out, war crimes are going to be the least of your worries.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23971875]Welcome to war, there are no fucking rules. Don't let the RoE or the Geneva Conventions fool you, when a full out war breaks out, war crimes are going to be the least of your worries.[/QUOTE]
You are either brainwashed or way too patriotic. I think both.
Do you support these crimes commited by the Us government or something?
You must do seeing as 'there are no rules'.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23971996]You are either brainwashed or way too patriotic. I think both.
Do you support these crimes commited by the Us government or something?
You must do seeing as 'there are no rules'.[/QUOTE]
Well, there aren't. Especially when your enemy doesn't have them.
Rules in wars have just about as much as effectivity as rules in schools.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23971845]How about the track where you'll kill no one by not releasing the documents, the one where you don't start the train without thinking about whats ahead.[/QUOTE]
The US government already started the train. By not releasing these documents you're walking away from the switch. If Assange got these documents and simply destroyed them he'd have much more blood on his hands than if he published them.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23972083]The US government already started the train. By not releasing these documents you're walking away from the switch.[/QUOTE]
No by releasing those documents you are switching the tracks without looking ahead.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23972111]No by releasing those documents you are switching the tracks without looking ahead.[/QUOTE]
It's also an assumption that people will die because of these documents. Nothing has happened yet and there's nothing to indicate that anything will happen in the future.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23971996]You are either brainwashed or way too patriotic. I think both.
Do you support these crimes commited by the Us government or something?
You must do seeing as 'there are no rules'.[/QUOTE]
There are no rules. The moment you hear that first bullet whiz by you everything goes out the fucking window. Your adrenalin's pumping. You get tunnel vision, someone dressed as a citizen is shooting at you, you fire back. This isn't a conventional war. The men we are fighting don't wear uniforms, they dress in normal cloth's for their culture and just use AK's and RPGs. Of course the civilian causalities are higher. Remember that scene in The Hurtlocker, the guy with the phone bomb? Everyone is standing around watching. It's hard to tell who's the enemy when they can shoot from a roof and just throw down their AK and pretend they were an onlooker. I don't support any crimes committed, but before you judge a man for what he's done, walk a mile in his shoes in the middle of Afghanistan.
[editline]10:59PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23972143]It's also an assumption that people will die because of these documents. Nothing has happened yet and there's nothing to indicate that anything will happen in the future.[/QUOTE]
Other then the Taliban threatening people to leave their homes.
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;23972167]There are no rules. The moment you hear that first bullet whiz by you everything goes out the fucking window. Your adrenalin's pumping. You get tunnel vision, someone dressed as a citizen is shooting at you, you fire back. This isn't a conventional war. The men we are fighting don't wear uniforms, they dress in normal cloth's for their culture and just use AK's and RPGs. Of course the civilian causalities are higher. Remember that scene in The Hurtlocker, the guy with the phone bomb? Everyone is standing around watching. It's hard to tell who's the enemy when they can shoot from a roof and just throw down their AK and pretend they were an onlooker. I don't support any crimes committed, but before you judge a man for what he's done, walk a mile in his shoes in the middle of Afghanistan.[/QUOTE]
Impossible. Only George Bush pressured other nations to do his bidding. Obama is a kind and benevolent leader, always read to forgive and forget.
[editline]05:05PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23972143]It's also an assumption that people will die because of these documents. Nothing has happened yet and there's nothing to indicate that anything will happen in the future.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][B]Taliban Murders Afghan Elder, Thanks Wikileaks for Revealing "Spies"[/B]
It's been a nightmarish last few months for U.S. Military officials. First they discovered that a young soldier serving in Iraq had acted as a spy passing documents to the site Wikileaks. Then they endured Wikileaks release of 90,000 U.S. Military documents -- many of them classified -- detailing their operations in Afghanistan.
The Taliban, a radical Islamic militia in Afghanistan, announced its gratitude to Wikileaks for the release and vowed to hunt down those revealed in the documents to be collaborating with the U.S. It appears that they have now made good on that threat.
Khalifa Abdullah, a tribal elder, was removed from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, by gunmen. He was then executed.
[url]http://www.dailytech.com/Taliban+Murders+Afghan+Elder+Thanks+Wikileaks+for+Revealing+Spies/article19250.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;23972167]There are no rules. The moment you hear that first bullet whiz by you everything goes out the fucking window. Your adrenalin's pumping. You get tunnel vision, someone dressed as a citizen is shooting at you, you fire back. This isn't a conventional war. The men we are fighting don't wear uniforms, they dress in normal cloth's for their culture and just use AK's and RPGs. Of course the civilian causalities are higher. Remember that scene in The Hurtlocker, the guy with the phone bomb? Everyone is standing around watching. It's hard to tell who's the enemy when they can shoot from a roof and just throw down their AK and pretend they were an onlooker. I don't support any crimes committed, but before you judge a man for what he's done, walk a mile in his shoes in the middle of Afghanistan.
[editline]10:59PM[/editline]
Other then the Taliban threatening people to leave their homes.[/QUOTE]
Nice. You are clearly heavily influenced by hollywood movies. Nice quote from Black hawk down.
I can't believe that you people are trying to defend the Us government covering up these crimes. The soldiers CAN tell who is the enemy(The person shooting at them). When they place airstrikes they COULD take a more cautious route by finding out if there are civilians there, they DO NOT and civilians die.
You people are stupid for saying things like 'They are wearing the same clothes as the insurgents so we should kill them even though we don't have a clue if they are the enemy. It is not the marines fault!! ' Well it is their fault for killing someone who could very well be innocent.
What does a robber do? Steals things, puts things which do not belong to him in his pocket, etc..
What does your enemy do during a gun fight? Shoot at you.
If someone is not shooting and has not just been shooting at you they are not a legitimate enemy. Civilians will either be running away( in which case they should NOT shoot, obviously. But guess what? They still do in some cases.) Or civilians will be hiding staying still, and again you do not shoot at them because it is not legitimate.
Well, sorry i should say it IS legitimate in the case of the Us government as they cover the civilian deaths up.
Keep supporting this war and as the years go by you will notice Afghanistan has not changed and you supported a lost cause.Watch
[QUOTE=kenji;23961891]This is why i dislike America, just feels like they force the world to do what they want :([/QUOTE]
It's not like you guys don't push around smaller countries in a similar manner. We just do it to everyone. Which I'm not advicating in saying that.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23972378]Nice. You are clearly heavily influenced by hollywood movies. Nice quote from Black hawk down.
[b]Blackhawk down took place in Somalia you dumb fuck and I haven't even seen it.[/b]
I can't believe that you people are trying to defend the us government covering up these crimes.
The soldiers CAN tell who is the enemy(The person shooting at them). [b]My cousin who served in Afghanistan for two tours disagrees. In a crowded city you can't tell who the fuck's shooting at you.[/b]
When they place airstrikes they COULD take a more cautious route by finding out if there are civilians there, they DO NOT and civilians die.[b]Do you realize airstrikes are very rarely called in and that they are incredibly careful with them? You know so little.[/b]
You people are stupid for saying things like 'They are wearing the same clothes as the insurgents so we should kill them even though we don't have a clue if they are the enemy. [b]I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you're being shot at and you think someones shooting at you, you will definitely shoot back.[/b]
It is not the marines fault!! ' Well it is their fault for killing someone who could very well be innocent. [b]It's their fault that the Taliban dresses as civilians?[/b]
What does a robber do? Steals things, puts things which do not belong to him in his pocket, etc..
What does your enemy do during a gun fight? Shoot at you.
If someone is not shooting and has not just been shooting at you they are not a legitimate enemy. Civilians will either be running away( in which case they should NOT shoot, obviously. But guess what? They still do in some cases.) Or civilians will be hiding staying still, and again you do not shoot at them because it is not legitimate. [b]Civilians generally watch what happens.[/b]
Well, sorry i should say it IS legitimate in the case of the Us government as they cover the civilian deaths up.
[b]You are fucking retarded.[/b][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Clark21;23972378]Nice. You are clearly heavily influenced by hollywood movies. Nice quote from Black hawk down.
I can't believe that you people are trying to defend the Us government covering up these crimes. The soldiers CAN tell who is the enemy(The person shooting at them). When they place airstrikes they COULD take a more cautious route by finding out if there are civilians there, they DO NOT and civilians die.
You people are stupid for saying things like 'They are wearing the same clothes as the insurgents so we should kill them even though we don't have a clue if they are the enemy. It is not the marines fault!! ' Well it is their fault for killing someone who could very well be innocent.
What does a robber do? Steals things, puts things which do not belong to him in his pocket, etc..
What does your enemy do during a gun fight? Shoot at you.
If someone is not shooting and has not just been shooting at you they are not a legitimate enemy. Civilians will either be running away( in which case they should NOT shoot, obviously. But guess what? They still do in some cases.) Or civilians will be hiding staying still, and again you do not shoot at them because it is not legitimate.
Well, sorry i should say it IS legitimate in the case of the Us government as they cover the civilian deaths up.
Keep supporting this war and as the years go by you will notice Afghanistan has not changed and you supported a lost cause.Watch[/QUOTE]
You have no idea what you are talking about. Your only argument is 'killing innocents is bad' which is stating the fucking obvious.
[editline]11:28PM[/editline]
Seriously, you teenagers think you know fucking every little aspect of wars. I'd like to see you even have the fucking balls to serve in a hellhole such as Afghanistan, where every potential terrorist might also be a citizen and vice versa. Have you ever stopped for a second to even consider what the soldiers in there are going through?
When did i say it never took place in Somalia?
'My cousin who served in Afghanistan for two tours disagrees. In a crowded city you can't tell who the fuck's shooting at you' - Really? Maybe someone pressing the trigger on the gun. That maybe the person who is shooting at you.
'Do you realize airstrikes are very rarely called in and that they are incredibly careful with them? You know so little.'
Really?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29[/url]
Read. Many civilians DIE from airstrikes. - So how the fuck are they incredibly careful with them?
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/120-die-as-us-bombs-village-1680407.html[/url]
READ.
'I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you're being shot at and you think someones shooting at you, you will definitely shoot back.' -YEAH you'll definately shoot back at the guy shooting at YOU. Not some random innocent civilian who you THINK is shooting at you.To simple just shoot and kill an innocent civilian who you thought was shooting at you is a war crime because they are not a clearly identified threat. Note: YOU WILL KNOW IF THEY'RE SHOOTING AT YOU BECAUSE THE ILL HAVE A WEAPON IN THEIR HAND AIMING AT YOU.
'It's their fault that the Taliban dresses as civilians?' - NO it's their fault for shooting a non-legitimate target.
'Civilians generally watch what happens.' - LOL yeah they just sit back and open a bag of popcorn waiting to be shot don't they? Fool.
'You are fucking retarded.' - I was saying it was legitimate because the US GOVT COVERS UP CIVILIAN DEATHS. - THEY DON'T CARE. IF THEY DID , WOULD THEY COVER THE DEATHS UP? WOULD THEY AIRSTRIKE A VILLAGE KILLING 130 PEOPLE? WOULD THEY HIDE THE TRUTH FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE USA?
@ MELNEK- NO my argument if explaining to people like you how brainwashed you are in supporting the US GOVT covering up civ deaths. Which you clearly are.
''Seriously, you teenagers think you know fucking every little aspect of wars. I'd like to see you even have the fucking balls to serve in a hellhole such as Afghanistan, where every potential terrorist might also be a citizen and vice versa. Have you ever stopped for a second to even consider what the soldiers in there are going through?''
Yes i have considered that. BUT DID THEY? They signed up. I bet they did not know a THING about the war before they joined.
Read over what i have wrote and read my other replies before you post a stupid patriotic response.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23972946]When did i say it never took place in Somalia?
'My cousin who served in Afghanistan for two tours disagrees. In a crowded city you can't tell who the fuck's shooting at you' - Really? Maybe someone pressing the trigger on the gun. That maybe the person who is shooting at you.
'Do you realize airstrikes are very rarely called in and that they are incredibly careful with them? You know so little.'
Really?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29[/url]
Read. Many civilians DIE from airstrikes. - So how the fuck are they incredibly careful with them?
Air strikes include lot's of missile types. I'm talking about plane drops. :downs:
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/120-die-as-us-bombs-village-1680407.html[/url]
READ.
'I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you're being shot at and you think someones shooting at you, you will definitely shoot back.' -YEAH you'll definately shoot back at the guy shooting at YOU. [b]Oh ok! I'll just use my super dooper eyesight that lets me see a behind fucking walls and zoom in.[/b]
Not some random innocent civilian who you THINK is shooting at you.To simple just shoot and kill an innocent civilian who you thought was shooting at you is a war crime because they are not a clearly identified threat.[b]Maybe they were and the guy next to him throwing rocks took it.[/b]
Note: YOU WILL KNOW IF THEY'RE SHOOTING AT YOU BECAUSE THE ILL HAVE A WEAPON IN THEIR HAND AIMING AT YOU. [b]You are to stupid to address.[/b]
'It's their fault that the Taliban dresses as civilians?' - NO it's their fault for shooting a non-legitimate target. [b]You are to stupid to address.[/b]
'Civilians generally watch what happens.' - LOL yeah they just sit back and open a bag of popcorn waiting to be shot don't they? Fool. [b]No, they watch the firefight. It's common.[/b]
'You are fucking retarded.' - I was saying it was legitimate because the US GOVT COVERS UP CIVILIAN DEATHS. - THEY DON'T CARE. IF THEY DID , WOULD THEY COVER THE DEATHS UP? WOULD THEY AIRSTRIKE A VILLAGE KILLING 130 PEOPLE? WOULD THEY HIDE THE TRUTH FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE USA? [b] When everythings declassified and people don't get hurt from leaked information they will.[/b]
@ MELNEK- NO my argument if explaining to people like you how brainwashed you are in supporting the US GOVT covering up civ deaths. Which you clearly are.
''Seriously, you teenagers think you know fucking every little aspect of wars. I'd like to see you even have the fucking balls to serve in a hellhole such as Afghanistan, where every potential terrorist might also be a citizen and vice versa. Have you ever stopped for a second to even consider what the soldiers in there are going through?''
Yes i have considered that. BUT DID THEY? They signed up. I bet they did not know a THING about the war before they joined.
Read over what i have wrote and read my other replies before you post a stupid patriotic response.[/QUOTE]
[quote]'Seriously, you teenagers think you know fucking every little aspect of wars. I'd like to see you even have the fucking balls to serve in a hellhole such as Afghanistan, where every potential terrorist might also be a citizen and vice versa. Have you ever stopped for a second to even consider what the soldiers in there are going through?''
Yes i have considered that. BUT DID THEY? They signed up. I bet they did not know a THING about the war before they joined. [b]Actualy, many of them do know.[/b][/quote]
Patriotic response, heh. Funny how I dont even live in america nor support their government and yet I still think your entire claims are stupid as all hell.
Most of what you say is also based on assumptions. Besides your wikipadia links that is. And you are seriously fucking deluded if you think soldiers have a super vision of who is a civilian and who is a terrorist. Those you call 'brainswashed' are actually people who take a more realistic approach to war than to just babble on about the same fucking weak argument that you establish.
'You are too stupid to address'
No, you just can't counter it. You also cannot counter half of the other things i have wrote and you cannot counter the links.
You have Sottalytober talking out his arse and Melnek saying 'And you are seriously fucking deluded if you think soldiers have a super vision of who is a civilian and who is a terrorist.'. Obviously he has not read what i have wrote very well.
Very well, keep supporting the war in Afghanistan boys. Keep defending the US government killing innocent people. True patriots.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23973314]'You are too stupid to address'
No, you just can't counter it. You also cannot counter half of the other things i have wrote and you cannot counter the links.
You have Sottalytober talking out his arse and Melnek saying 'And you are seriously fucking deluded if you think soldiers have a super vision of who is a civilian and who is a terrorist.'. Obviously he has not read what i have wrote very well.
Very well, keep supporting the war in Afghanistan boys. Keep defending the US government killing innocent people. True patriots.[/QUOTE]
Sign up for the army or whatever, go down there, and go tell me whos a terrorist and a civilian, do it. Also, do it while you're behind cover getting shot it, cause that's where you'll be most of the time when you're getting shot at.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23973314]'You are too stupid to address'
No, you just can't counter it. You also cannot counter half of the other things i have wrote and you cannot counter the links.
You have Sottalytober talking out his arse and Melnek saying 'And you are seriously fucking deluded if you think soldiers have a super vision of who is a civilian and who is a terrorist.'. Obviously he has not read what i have wrote very well.
Very well, keep supporting the war in Afghanistan boys. Keep defending the US government killing innocent people. True patriots.[/QUOTE]
I can counter wikipedia links seeing as any dumbfuck can edit. :downs:
[quote]The US air strike on Bala Baluk appears to have been deadlier for civilians than any similar event since the first US intervention in Afghanistan in 2001. The government has asked villagers not to bury the dead until investigators arrive today.[/quote] Accidents are made. It's not like you can go 9 years in a country without such a big mistake.
[QUOTE=Clark21;23973314]'You are too stupid to address'
No, you just can't counter it. You also cannot counter half of the other things i have wrote and you cannot counter the links.
You have Sottalytober talking out his arse and Melnek saying 'And you are seriously fucking deluded if you think soldiers have a super vision of who is a civilian and who is a terrorist.'. Obviously he has not read what i have wrote very well.
Very well, keep supporting the war in Afghanistan boys. Keep defending the US government killing innocent people. True patriots.[/QUOTE]
Just stop. You're blindly ignoring logic.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;23967962]That has yet to be proven, stop buying into the smear campaign. They started it exactly for this purpose - to distract people from the content of the documents.[/QUOTE]
No, there are literally the names of hundreds of informants in the documents. Believe it or not there are other reasons for classifying the documents besides hiding war crimes.
[QUOTE=Melnek;23973447]Just stop. You're blindly ignoring logic.[/QUOTE]
PhD debater right here guys
It's funny how they first tricked other countries with false information to support them in their war against terrorism in Afghanistan.
And now because US documents are leaked and supposedly form harm against NATO forces which are only in harms way because of USA trickery into involving these countries to be there in the first place, they ask them to put pressure on Wikileaks.
I am not sure what word I am looking for here, I'll just stick with lol.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23973382]Sign up for the army or whatever, go down there, and go tell me whos a terrorist and a civilian, do it. Also, do it while you're behind cover getting shot it, cause that's where you'll be most of the time when you're getting shot at.[/QUOTE]
You will know who is a terrorist because they will be acting very suspiciously(note the very) , holding a gun, SHOOTING AT YOU. You cannot just classify a random civilian as an insurgent because they wear the same clothes as the enemy. They are not posing as a threat,they should not shoot them.
You will know who the enemy is because you will see them firing on your position, civilians would not just stand there waiting to be shot like Sottalytober's logic states. They would not have a weapon and would be running. When they are running the soldier should not shoot them because the are not a legit target, they are running, they pose no threat.
If you look at earlier posts these people(including yourself) have been defending the fact that the Us has covered he deaths of civilians up.
I guess i will have to feed it to you people then..
I put
[QUOTE=Clark21;23971996]You are either brainwashed or way too patriotic. I think both.
Do you support these crimes commited by the Us government or something?
You must do seeing as 'there are no rules'.[/QUOTE]
He responds
[QUOTE=Melnek;23972052]Well, there aren't. Especially when your enemy doesn't have them.
Rules in wars have just about as much as effectivity as rules in schools.[/QUOTE]
He thinks that there are no rules. No rules? So the Us govt is allowed to cover up innocent people's deaths because there are 'no rules'?
[QUOTE=JDK721;23971860]so just let the military continue committing war crimes (murdering civilians, etc.) and covering them up
great[/QUOTE]
A good comment, exaclty what i'm trying to prove.
Yet you replied
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;23971875]Welcome to war, there are no fucking rules. Don't let the RoE or the Geneva Conventions fool you, when a full out war breaks out, war crimes are going to be the least of your worries.[/QUOTE]
You are basically agreeing with what the government is doing.The Us govt is allowed to cover up innocent people's deaths because there are 'no rules' eh?
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;23973104]No, they watch the firefight. It's common.[/QUOTE]
He is Implying that civilians stay still and watch the firefight. He is
saying this to backup his false reason why civilians are dying. Rubbish.
Another quote from him
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;23972526]Do you realize airstrikes are very rarely called in and that they are incredibly careful with them? You know so little[/QUOTE]
He obviously didn't read
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/120-die-as-us-bombs-village-1680407.html[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_%282001%E2%80%93present%29[/url]
If you read the wiki on the second link, you will see how many civilians are killed by airstrikes.
How he thinks they incredibly careful with them i don't know, because they clearly aren't. Then he says i know so little.
He also writes off my quotes as 'You are to stupid to address.' - In other words, he cannot counter argue with it.
He then says [QUOTE=Sottalytober;23973389]I can counter wikipedia links seeing as any dumbfuck can edit. :downs:
[/QUOTE]
Any dumbfuck can just simply edit ? Yes. Will that information it stay there? No.
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;23973389]
Accidents are made. It's not like you can go 9 years in a country without such a big mistake.[/QUOTE]
Accidents are made bla bla bla. You can keep saying that each time an 'accident' happens and nothing will change. It is not just one 'accident' either, there are thousands upon thousands of cover ups as wikileaks has proved.
Melek says i'm blindly ignoring logic. I say he is blindly ignoring what the Us govt is doing here. Even worse he seems to be defending it, along with his buddies.
Are you warhol's alt?
[QUOTE=veribigbos1;23962251]US is like that kid who keeps cheating in tests and everything else, and when you tell everyone about it he goes crying to his friends and tries to round up a mob so you'd be too afraid to show up at school the next day[/QUOTE]
More like the US is the mob times 10
[QUOTE=JDK721;23974546]PhD debater right here guys[/QUOTE]
I have not seen you post once without being a dick to someone or something. You can hardly talk. Also you keep going on about war-crimes, show me these war-crimes because I think you're pulling a lot of these 'war-crimes' out of your arse and blowing it out into massive proportions.
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