Manga images 'not child porn', says Sweden's Supreme Court
497 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Coffee;36374859]But Paedophilia is defined as a psychiatric disorder, not a fetish.[/QUOTE]
So was Homosexuality, Bisexuality. Hell Transgenderism still is.
It's only defined as a psychiatric disorder because some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken. Just like Homosexuality was.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;36374900]So was Homosexuality, Bisexuality. Hell Transgenderism still is.
It's only defined as a psychiatric disorder because some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken. Just like Homosexuality was.[/QUOTE]
Please don't compare being attracted to the same sex to being attracted to children.
For one, homosexuality is an orientation. Pedophilia is a fetish, a paraphilia even.
More importantly, sexual acts with children is intrinsically harmful.
[QUOTE=Last or First;36374967]Please don't compare being attracted to the same sex to being attracted to children.
For one, homosexuality is an orientation. Pedophilia is a fetish, a paraphilia even.
More importantly, sexual acts with children is intrinsically harmful.[/QUOTE]
not when its drawn and doesnt have a victim. and yes we can compare it because it was being judged as the same thing, its not some sacred ground that we arent allowed to use to compare/contrast something else with.
[QUOTE=Last or First;36374967]Please don't compare being attracted to the same sex to being attracted to children.
For one, homosexuality is an orientation. Pedophilia is a fetish, a paraphilia even.
More importantly, sexual acts with children is intrinsically harmful.[/QUOTE]
We're not talking about the people that actually molest children, we're talking about the people that look at drawn images of sexual acts with children.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;36374991]not when its drawn and doesnt have a victim. and yes we can compare it because it was being judged as the same thing, its not some sacred ground that we arent allowed to use to compare/contrast something else with.[/QUOTE]
It [I]was[/I] being judged as the same thing.
Keyword: [I]was[/I].
As in, they realized they were wrong, and stopped.
It's fallacious to assume that they'll do the same for pedophilia just because they did it for homosexuality.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36375005]We're not talking about the people that actually molest children, we're talking about the people that look at drawn images of sexual acts with children.[/QUOTE]
We're talking about people that look at drawn images of people molesting children. Or children having sex with children.
Both (with some exceptions) are attracted to sexual acts with children.
I'm not saying that pedophiles who keep it to themselves and would never dream of actually even touching a child are horrible, or just as bad as child molesters. Even if it is creepy, that doesn't mean they're bad.
But you can't compare that to homosexuality when talking about whether it's a psychological disorder or not.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;36374900]So was Homosexuality, Bisexuality. Hell Transgenderism still is.
It's only defined as a psychiatric disorder because some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken. Just like Homosexuality was.[/QUOTE]
Oh I see, so after we make paedophilia legal, we then move onto necrophilia? Because, according to you, it's [I]only[/I] a psychiatric disorder because "some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken." We now treat Homosexuality, Bisexuality and Pansexuality as a normal thing as we find evidence of it in nature. We do not find Transgenderism or paedophilia in nature - hence they are psychiatric disorders; just like Autism, Aspergers, Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375523]Oh I see, so after we make paedophilia legal, we then move onto necrophilia? Because, according to you, it's [I]only[/I] a psychiatric disorder because "some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken." We now treat Homosexuality, Bisexuality and Pansexuality as a normal thing as we find evidence of it in nature. We do not find Transgenderism or paedophilia in nature - hence they are psychiatric disorders; just like Autism, Aspergers, Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder.[/QUOTE]
Hi guess what
we're nature
Sorry to yet again shatter your world view
[editline]18th June 2012[/editline]
Also, pedophilia and necrophilia are both legal, you just can't actually act on those urges.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36375594]Hi guess what
we're nature
Sorry to yet again shatter your world view[/QUOTE]
For the sake of my argument, nature is implying non-human.
[editline]18th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36375594]
Also, pedophilia and necrophilia are both legal, you just can't actually act on those urges.[/QUOTE]
They're illegal in the UK.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375609]For the sake of my argument, nature is implying non-human.
[/QUOTE]
But we are human, why even bother comparing us to anything else.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375609]For the sake of my argument, nature is implying non-human.
[editline]18th June 2012[/editline]
[b]They're illegal in the UK.[/b][/QUOTE]
No. Being a pedophile/necrophile is not illegal. It is, however, illegal to commit pedophilic/necrophilic acts on children/dead bodies, respectively.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
People need to get that pedophile =/= child abuser.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;36375650]No. Being a pedophile/necrophile is not illegal. It is, however, illegal to commit pedophilic/necrophilic acts on children/dead bodies, respectively.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
People need to get that pedophile =/= child abuser.[/QUOTE]
No, loli is illegal in the UK.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36375649]But we are human, why even bother comparing us to anything else.[/QUOTE]
Because as you said, we're nature. Looking at things similar to use gives us a good idea of normality.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36375688]No, loli is illegal in the UK.[/QUOTE]
I know its illegal. I said it is not illegal to be a pedophile
[QUOTE=xxncxx;36375650]No. Being a pedophile/necrophile is not illegal. It is, however, illegal to commit pedophilic/necrophilic acts on children/dead bodies, respectively.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
People need to get that pedophile =/= child abuser.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that paedophile = child abuser. Child Abuse, Child Pornography, Loli, other explicit acts and multimedia aren't very good to have in society. With every subculture, you're always going to have people who take things to the extreme and may actually commit certain acts pertaining to the aforementioned illicit acts.
This then leads us to a debate similar to the 'gun control' debates. Does outlawing it remove it? Does not outlawing it and allowing freedom in that medium prevent it? The best solution is education, people need to be educated on the morality of the paedophilia subject and what can grow from it. If someone is attracted to drawings of prepubescent children, it's perceived as odd by society. There is obviously a mental disorder in this person. They need help: therapy.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375523]Oh I see, so after we make paedophilia legal, we then move onto necrophilia? Because, according to you, it's [I]only[/I] a psychiatric disorder because "some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken." We now treat Homosexuality, Bisexuality and Pansexuality as a normal thing as we find evidence of it in nature. We do not find Transgenderism or paedophilia in nature - hence they are psychiatric disorders; just like Autism, Aspergers, Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder.[/QUOTE]
uh animals that aren't human will fuck anything, including kids.
hell WE used to fuck kids back when we didn't think of them as the most precious thing to try to keep the species alive since we didn't have medicine and everything fucking killed you
also you're using the slippery slope argument, nice one
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Last or First;36374967]Please don't compare being attracted to the same sex to being attracted to children.
For one, homosexuality is an orientation. Pedophilia is a fetish, a paraphilia even.
More importantly, sexual acts with children is intrinsically harmful.[/QUOTE]
yeah sexual acts with children is, but having a fetish isn't. it's a fetish. would you classify someone who has a foot fetish (most people) to have a psychiatric disorder?
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375777]I'm not saying that paedophile = child abuser. Child Abuse, Child Pornography, Loli, other explicit acts and multimedia aren't very good to have in society. [B]With every subculture, you're always going to have people who take things to the extreme and may actually commit certain acts pertaining to the aforementioned illicit acts.
[/B][/QUOTE]
you do realize that there's evidence directly linking porn to taking the risk of sexual abuse and rape do-
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375777]If someone is attracted to drawings of prepubescent children, it's perceived as odd by society. There is obviously a mental disorder in this person. They need help: therapy.[/QUOTE]
nevermind
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375777]I'm not saying that paedophile = child abuser. Child Abuse, Child Pornography, Loli, other explicit acts and multimedia aren't very good to have in society. With every subculture, you're always going to have people who take things to the extreme and may actually commit certain acts pertaining to the aforementioned illicit acts.
This then leads us to a debate similar to the 'gun control' debates. Does outlawing it remove it? Does not outlawing it and allowing freedom in that medium prevent it? The best solution is education, people need to be educated on the morality of the paedophilia subject and what can grow from it. If someone is attracted to drawings of prepubescent children, it's perceived as odd by society. There is obviously a mental disorder in this person. They need help: therapy.[/QUOTE]
Loli, as bad as you may perceive it to be, should be legal. Why? Because its been proven to lower child abuse levels. Pedophilia shouldn't be treated like a disorder because that implies something is wrong with them. Everybody has their likes and dislikes, some people got the short end of the stick. And you can't just remove an attraction from someone, that's like saying a homosexual needs to see a therapist so he can like girls again like a normal person. It's been explained before in the thread, liking loli doesn't make you a pedophile. Most people who like loli, would never even think about doing such acts to a real child, I'm not saying that there aren't people who do, but I'm saying its not as common as you think it to be.
[editline]17th June 2012[/editline]
Also, like Skel said, slippery slope argument is terrible, don't use it.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375777]
If someone is attracted to drawings of prepubescent children, it's perceived as odd by society. There is obviously a mental disorder in this person. They need help: therapy.[/QUOTE]
"if you're different you need to go into therapy"
You're funny. There's this thing called human sexuality, you should look it up.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375777]I'm not saying that paedophile = child abuser. Child Abuse, Child Pornography, Loli, other explicit acts and multimedia aren't very good to have in society. With every subculture, you're always going to have people who take things to the extreme and may actually commit certain acts pertaining to the aforementioned illicit acts.
This then leads us to a debate similar to the 'gun control' debates. Does outlawing it remove it? Does not outlawing it and allowing freedom in that medium prevent it? The best solution is education, people need to be educated on the morality of the paedophilia subject and what can grow from it. If someone is attracted to drawings of prepubescent children, it's perceived as odd by society. There is obviously a mental disorder in this person. They need help: therapy.[/QUOTE]
lol
[QUOTE=Skelmech;36375847]
hell WE used to fuck kids back when we didn't think of them as the most precious thing to try to keep the species alive since we didn't have medicine and everything fucking killed you
[/QUOTE]
is there a credible, scholarly, source for this anywhere because i find it hard to believe.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36375523]Oh I see, so after we make paedophilia legal, we then move onto necrophilia? Because, according to you, it's [I]only[/I] a psychiatric disorder because "some people decided it was bad enough that if you had it you were broken." We now treat Homosexuality, Bisexuality and Pansexuality as a normal thing as we find evidence of it in nature. We do not find Transgenderism or paedophilia in nature - hence they are psychiatric disorders; just like Autism, Aspergers, Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1190030]Uh, about that...[/url]
Here's a quote from the American Psychiatric Association as to why they took homosexuality off of the DSM: "homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities".
I would imagine pedophilia is still a disorder because of the "impairment in judgement" part.
Although if you're perfectly aware that any sexual acts with actual children is harmful, and you only like drawn images, not real ones, then I guess there's not that much impairment.
It's still creepy, though.
The slippery slope argument works both ways: If lolicon is made illegal then it stands to reason that this would open the gateway for things like political cartoons making fun of the president getting you jailed for treason, or drawing a humorous "stoner comic" leading to being arrested on drug-related charges.
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;36376111]The slippery slope argument works both ways: If lolicon is made illegal then it stands to reason that this would open the gateway for things like political cartoons making fun of the president getting you jailed for treason, or drawing a humorous "stoner comic" leading to being arrested on drug-related charges.[/QUOTE]
Hence why it is a terrible argument.
NOW THAT LOLI IS LEGAL THERE WILL BE [b]DIRE[/b] CONSQUENCES. IN A MATTER OF MONTHS WE'LL SEE NECROPHILIA AND BEASTIALITY BECOMING LEGAL AS WELL, AND THE WORLD WILL TURN TO [b]HELL[/b].
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;36376063]is there a credible, scholarly, source for this anywhere because i find it hard to believe.[/QUOTE]
[quote]Many women from rich backgrounds would have married when they were teenagers.[/quote]
[url]http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/medieval_women.htm[/url]
[quote]Despite this we can find examples of prominent figures, including Saint Augustine (354–430), Muhammad (570–632), and Gandhi (1869–1948), who publicly enjoyed the company of young children and may have had sexual relations with them.[/quote]
[url]http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Pa-Re/Pedophilia.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Kai-ryuu;36376063]is there a credible, scholarly, source for this anywhere because i find it hard to believe.[/QUOTE]
taboos against sex with children is a relatively recent thing. It used to be whenever they hit puberty they were fit to breed
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;36376625]taboos against sex with children is a relatively recent thing. It used to be whenever they hit puberty they were fit to breed[/QUOTE]
Whilst I support loli being legal, that taboo is there for a reason.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36378239]Whilst I support loli being legal, that taboo is there for a reason.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty neutral on the issue since it wouldn't really make a difference to me, but yeah rape is terrible and wrong though if the kid knows what sex is and knows that's what he or she wants, then I don't see the issue. The only real issue there is that some people learn about sex sooner or later and there's no way we can legally differentiate between a child who understands sex and a child who thinks they understand sex
kids aren't my cup of tea but I do understand why people might be attracted to them. small bodies, depend on adults, pliable minds. They're easy to exert power over. If you've got a thing for smaller chests or or whatever they've got that going for them too
Edit: Shit I just quoted something from long back. Sorry.
I don't think pedophilia is impaired judgement as much as homosexuality is. Those who go and have sex with children is bad judgement. But that's not exclusive to pedophilia, nor the definition of it.
Tbh after seeing the Louis Theroux docco' where one of the people at that institution actually had himself physically castrated (after a chemical castration before that) I think that pedophilia should be regarded in the same sense as homosexuality (clinically). Not morally, because the attraction is detrimental to humanity as a whole / socially, but it's obvious a lot of these people are dealing with sexual chemistry they're born with against their will which is kinda fucked
It seems like even after they go to lengths like having their balls cut off people like Sanius will still think of ways to execute them better for being disgusting
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