• Manga images 'not child porn', says Sweden's Supreme Court
    497 replies, posted
Basically it comes down to this. A persons' fetishes and attractions are not choice. Even if you only started getting into "stockings" or "bondage" or whatever recently, it's never your choice whether you want to be attracted to it or not. A person doesn't choose to be attracted to scat, incest, loli, the same gender, any combination of those, or whatever, it's simply the way they work internally, and as seen, some people try to change themselves to avoid the issues that those desires cause. It doesn't work. Just like the "Gay Camps" can't make a person straight, a "Pedophile Camp" wouldn't make a pedophile stop liking kids. They can't help it, and honestly, I don't think it's disgusting at all. Human sexuality is about as greyscale as you can get. Hell, even I am into weird crap like rape, cuckoldism, and so on. There is no such thing as "normal" because no one, not one person, is attracted to the exact same things as another person. In the same way that a gay guy is not going to go out and rape every guy he sees, a pedophile isn't going to go out and rape every kid he sees. The ones who do rape are the ones that have mental conditions that prevent them from making good decisions and controlling their desires, and that condition can apply to anyone, not just pedophiles. I think that it's only just if a pedophile can watch some drawn porn of little kids and wank in peace if the guy who is int scat can do the same.
[QUOTE=Loriborn;36379233]Basically it comes down to this. A persons' fetishes and attractions are not choice. Even if you only started getting into "stockings" or "bondage" or whatever recently, it's never your choice whether you want to be attracted to it or not. A person doesn't choose to be attracted to scat, incest, loli, the same gender, any combination of those, or whatever, it's simply the way they work internally, and as seen, some people try to change themselves to avoid the issues that those desires cause. It doesn't work. Just like the "Gay Camps" can't make a person straight, a "Pedophile Camp" wouldn't make a pedophile stop liking kids. They can't help it, and honestly, I don't think it's disgusting at all. Human sexuality is about as greyscale as you can get. Hell, even I am into weird crap like rape, cuckoldism, and so on. There is no such thing as "normal" because no one, not one person, is attracted to the exact same things as another person. In the same way that a gay guy is not going to go out and rape every guy he sees, a pedophile isn't going to go out and rape every kid he sees. The ones who do rape are the ones that have mental conditions that prevent them from making good decisions and controlling their desires, and that condition can apply to anyone, not just pedophiles. I think that it's only just if a pedophile can watch some drawn porn of little kids and wank in peace if the guy who is int scat can do the same.[/QUOTE] [B][I][U] THANK [/U][/I][/B]you.
so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36379927]so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] What is your view on art though? There is old, recognized art depicting naked children. Paintings in museums. They cannot be criminalized. If laws were in place to ban such paintings back in the day, they wouldn't have ever been made or seen as art. Even if lolicon can't be morally justified as you say, should the appropriate response be to set a limitation on art? Because in that case we can surely find more morally wrong stuff to restrict artists from drawing later on as well.
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36379927]so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] It's fictional. It's fictional. It's fictional. It's. Fictional.
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36379927]so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] First of all, morals are subjective, we all know this. But still, how can anything be morally wrong if it doesn't harm anyone? You're just baselessly asserting that this attraction can't be justified. Why does it need to be justified? The attraction harms nobody? Am I completely wrong when I say that morals should be entirely based on harm versus non-harm and nothing else? What you're basing your morals on is just [I]"I think it is disgusting."[/I] [QUOTE]just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to)[/QUOTE] This specifically is ridiculous. We've already been through this a shit load of times when discussing homosexuality. Fetishes, orientations, paraphilias and sexualities are all similar in the way that they cannot simply be [I]"controlled"[/I] or [I]"cured"[/I]. Everyone can control their [I]actions[/I], and they should do so by considering whether they are harming anybody or not, and by acting based on that consideration. Everyone can do that, regardless of fetishes and sexual attractions.
I've said this before I think, but in my opinion, lolicon is like a nicotine patch, if you need to stop smoking but cannot get away from tobacco for too long you go to nicotine patches or gum. Lolicon is basically there to cater to those who may like little girls/boys but it also allows them to keep their desires internal rather than acted upon for those with less self control or stronger attraction, or to be just another fantasy fetish for others. Would you really want a person with an extreme addiction to nicotine to go cold turkey while also having to work a standard job and be social? In some sense it works the same way, it for some people becomes a voluntary self control mechanism. They, by using it, admit that they have a problem and sought a way to fix/work around it.
I feel as though paedophiles are in no way different from homosexuals, they can't control who they're attracted to, it's not a choice, and it's not something they can control. The child molesters that you hear about are probably only a very small portion of the paedophile population who act upon their urges, it's probably similar to the things felt and done by homosexuals in times gone by when they were prosecuted. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;36379233]Basically it comes down to this. A persons' fetishes and attractions are not choice. Even if you only started getting into "stockings" or "bondage" or whatever recently, it's never your choice whether you want to be attracted to it or not. A person doesn't choose to be attracted to scat, incest, loli, the same gender, any combination of those, or whatever, it's simply the way they work internally, and as seen, some people try to change themselves to avoid the issues that those desires cause. It doesn't work. Just like the "Gay Camps" can't make a person straight, a "Pedophile Camp" wouldn't make a pedophile stop liking kids. They can't help it, and honestly, I don't think it's disgusting at all. Human sexuality is about as greyscale as you can get. Hell, even I am into weird crap like rape, cuckoldism, and so on. There is no such thing as "normal" because no one, not one person, is attracted to the exact same things as another person. In the same way that a gay guy is not going to go out and rape every guy he sees, a pedophile isn't going to go out and rape every kid he sees. The ones who do rape are the ones that have mental conditions that prevent them from making good decisions and controlling their desires, and that condition can apply to anyone, not just pedophiles. I think that it's only just if a pedophile can watch some drawn porn of little kids and wank in peace if the guy who is int scat can do the same.[/QUOTE] I knew this would have been said before, but those paedophiles who come back from their "camps" think that they're "cured" but they're not. It's the same thing with the gay camps. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Last or First;36376107][url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1190030]Uh, about that...[/url] Here's a quote from the American Psychiatric Association as to why they took homosexuality off of the DSM: "homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities". I would imagine pedophilia is still a disorder because of the "impairment in judgement" part. Although if you're perfectly aware that any sexual acts with actual children is harmful, and you only like drawn images, not real ones, then I guess there's not that much impairment. It's still creepy, though.[/QUOTE] Think about it this way, the "predator" pedos are an infinitely small portion of the population, just like there's going to be fucked up gay/straight and bi people, but pedos can't have sex normally, so they supress what normally would be reflected statistically in the gay/straight/bi populations. [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] However, studying history a lot has led me to realise something, historical values are not able to be compared to current or future values. It seems barbaric, archaic and stupid for gays to be prosecuted, it's probable that in a hundred, or more, years time we'll look back on the way pedos were treated and get kinda sick. Also, they'll probably poke fun at us for shitting in toilets.
[QUOTE=deadoon;36380390]I've said this before I think, but in my opinion, lolicon is like a nicotine patch, if you need to stop smoking but cannot get away from tobacco for too long you go to nicotine patches or gum. Lolicon is basically there to cater to those who may like little girls/boys but it also allows them to keep their desires internal rather than acted upon for those with less self control or stronger attraction, or to be just another fantasy fetish for others. Would you really want a person with an extreme addiction to nicotine to go cold turkey while also having to work a standard job and be social? In some sense it works the same way, it for some people becomes a voluntary self control mechanism. They, by using it, admit that they have a problem and sought a way to fix/work around it.[/QUOTE] so what you're saying is loli is what's stopping all the closet pedos going into a feeding frenzy and destroying society wow i had no idea loli was such an important building block in a functional society
Im aroused by pictures of horses with raging boners, should i be arrested?
yep
[QUOTE=xxncxx;36364486]like bronies im guessing? I'm sure that those guys wouldn't even go near a horse.[/QUOTE] Fuck you, I love horses.
[B]Stop spouting random hate on a subject you know nothing about[/B]
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36379927]so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] lol daedulas
good rebuttal, really helps your point.
and [I]that[/I] is the post you reply to, out of all the posts above it that you merely dumb-rated...
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36379927]so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] yeah ok i find liking feet weird that should definitely be illegal
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36379927]so its completely fine for a person who sexually attracted to little kids? Lolicon while a fictional depiction of sexual attraction to a little kid, is still not morally justified. just because you can't control your fetish (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get child pornography (even if its lolicon) there are things that can be justified, but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] Like I asked someone else, what do you went them to do about it? Abstain from the illustrated porn that arouses them? So basically you want them to completely shut out all sexual release that they receive from a harmless drawing simply because you believe that a drawing isn't ok. That sounds completely healthy and has absolutely no potential to backfire. Should we also start forcing people to abstain from violent video games as well just because other people find it detestable? Just because you can't control your violent tendencies (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get violent video games (even if it's fiction).
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36382702]Like I asked someone else, what do you went them to do about it? Abstain from the illustrated porn that arouses them? So basically you want them to completely shut out all sexual release that they receive from a harmless drawing simply because you believe that a drawing isn't ok. That sounds completely healthy and has absolutely no potential to backfire. Should we also start forcing people to abstain from violent video games as well just because other people find it detestable? Just because you can't control your violent tendencies (which you should be able to) doesn't mean it's ok for you to get violent video games (even if it's fiction).[/QUOTE] im pretty sure it shouldnt be so hard for someone to not seek out loli and whats so hard about not finding kids sexy, im p sure that you might have another fetish, do that one instead (unless its also fucked up like bestiality or necrophilia, then seek help!) and there is a major difference from legalized stuff to illegal stuff
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382583]good rebuttal, really helps your point.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;36382681]and [I]that[/I] is the post you reply to, out of all the posts above it that you merely dumb-rated...[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;36371243]I find that this is how these arguments usually go. First you get the thunderstorm of baseless hate and idiotic arguments, then we provide counter arguments, then the thread dies with no responses to those, and then we wait for the next similar thread to pop up and go through the whole rigmarole again.[/QUOTE] Daedulas is doing exactly what I'm talking about. His only argument so far is [I]"It can't be morally justified because it's just not okay and it just is."[/I] and [I]"Here, have a dumb rating because you're wrong."[/I] It happens this way every time. This is how it's supposed to go. Step 1: Person 1 provides an argument for something. [I](It's wrong!)[/I] Step 2: Person 2 provides a counter argument. [I](It actually makes child abuse decline, it's fiction, etc. etc.)[/I] Step 3: Person 1 refutes the counter argument or provides a new argument or changes their mind. Step three just doesn't seem to happen here. We keep endlessly cycling through step one and two in every one of these threads.
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;36382697]yeah ok i find liking feet weird that should definitely be illegal[/QUOTE] if its been illegal for well over a century and is taboo to almost all modern cultures, then no but your fetish is just weird (lol) [editline]18th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;36382787]Daedulas is doing exactly what I'm talking about. His only argument so far is [I]"It can't be morally justified because it's just not okay and it just is."[/I] and [I]"Here, have a dumb rating because you're wrong."[/I] It happens this way every time. This is how it's supposed to go. Step 1: Person 1 provides an argument for something. [I](It's wrong!)[/I] Step 2: Person 2 provides a counter argument. [I](It actually makes child abuse decline, it's fiction, etc. etc.)[/I] Step 3: Person 1 refutes the counter argument or provides a new argument or changes their mind. Step three just doesn't seem to happen here. We keep endlessly cycling through step one and two in every one of these threads.[/QUOTE] calm down just because im rating dumb and not responding to you because ive responded to another person doesnt mean you have to freak out
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382778]im pretty sure it shouldnt be so hard for someone to not seek out loli [/QUOTE] why should a pedophile not seek out lolicon instead of child porn with real victims
the pedophile shouldnt seek out anything to do with cp or any "no harmed" variants?
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382778]im pretty sure it shouldnt be so hard for someone to not seek out loli and whats so hard about not finding kids sexy, im p sure that you might have another fetish, do that one instead (unless its also fucked up like bestiality or necrophilia, then seek help!) and there is a major difference from legalized stuff to illegal stuff[/QUOTE]Ok first of all you can't just tell a pedophile to stop being a pedophile. It's not that simple. It would be as difficult as trying to stop being homosexual. Second of all please explain to me exactly what doesn't make you a hypocrite for support lolicon being illegal but not supporting violent video games being illegal? [quote]and there is a major difference from legalized stuff to illegal stuff[/quote] What do you mean by this? Are you implying that murder is legal? Since child rape being illegal = lolicon being illegal to you, why should murder being illegal =/= violent video games being illegal? "I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be so hard for someone to not seek out violent video games."
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36382849]Ok first of all you can't just tell a pedophile to stop being a pedophile. It's not that simple. It would be as difficult as trying to stop being homosexual. Second of all please explain to me exactly what doesn't make you a hypocrite for support lolicon being illegal but not supporting violent video games being illegal? What do you mean by this? Are you implying that murder is legal? Since child rape being illegal = lolicon being illegal to you, why should murder being illegal =/= violent video games being illegal? "I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be so hard for someone to not seek out violent video games."[/QUOTE] i think there is a huge difference between wanting to fuck a loli and shooting someone in a game also when did i imply that? im implying that there is a major difference from shooting someone in a game, to looking at a lolicon being fucked by a adult in your newest addition of loli monthly.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;36382849]Ok first of all you can't just tell a pedophile to stop being a pedophile. It's not that simple. It would be as difficult as trying to stop being homosexual.[/QUOTE] And to prevent the usual [I]"Don't compare homosexuality to pedophilia because I don't like one of them so they can have [U]no[/U] similarities otherwise they're suddenly equal!"[/I], it would be equally difficult to stop being heterosexual.
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382894]i think there is a huge difference between wanting to fuck a loli and shooting someone in a game also when did i imply that? im implying that there is a major difference from shooting someone in a game, to looking at a lolicon being fucked by a adult in your newest addition of loli monthly.[/QUOTE] but shooting someone in a game means you'll do it in real life!!!!!
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382894]i think there is a huge difference between wanting to fuck a loli and shooting someone in a game also when did i imply that? im implying that there is a major difference from shooting someone in a game, to looking at a lolicon being fucked by a adult in your newest addition of loli monthly.[/QUOTE] Ok then. Explain why it is different. Justify to me why these two should be treated differently in accordance to the law. I'll tell you what isn't different about these two. [b]They are fiction.[/b]
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382894]i think there is a huge difference between wanting to fuck a loli and shooting someone in a game also when did i imply that? im implying that there is a major difference from shooting someone in a game, to looking at a lolicon being fucked by a adult in your newest addition of loli monthly.[/QUOTE] And what difference is that? [B]EDIT:[/B] Your argument still only boils down to [I]"I think loli is fucked up because I think so and I'm just right."[/I] and [I]"violence in video games is different because."[/I] Get some real arguments and reasons.
[QUOTE=Daedulas;36382778]im pretty sure it shouldnt be so hard for someone to not seek out loli and whats so hard about not finding kids sexy, im p sure that you might have another fetish, do that one instead (unless its also fucked up like bestiality or necrophilia, then seek help!) and there is a major difference from legalized stuff to illegal stuff[/QUOTE] So, more whining and "why can't pedos stop being pedos and icky". Yes I get it pedos are weird, but what are you gonna do about it? There are multiple problems with banning loli, including the one I bring up in my previous post. And all you come with is "they could do something else". In a perfect world, yeah, sure. But no.
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